Sports Book About to go Under?????

[STING]

The hottest news around the net in recent weeks continues to get even hotter. Seems a well-known rag which features pot shots at Brian and Jeff on a regular basis (including last 2 weeks) appears to be on the verge of collapse according to various sources....and its associated sportsbook may not be too far behind. Story is that the paper is paying their employees with bad checks; Vegas sportsbooks have begun pulling the rag from their operations (if they had not already). All this stems from what looks to be a huge backlash from a story recently published which listed numerous scandicappers lumped in with more respectable individuals. While I'm no fan of tout services, some of the names thrown in for good measure included Bettorsworld partners, Brian and Jeff (who run this site for free) as well as Mark Vincent who's fairly well respected in this forum.
Bettorsworld continues to demonstrate class by not responding to the fledling papers criticisms, however, it is important for people out there who are clients of the sportsbook in question to follow the news closely and take any necessary precautions. Regardless of what one might think of this particular paper, fact is the associated sportsbook does have its share of loyal clients who may end up getting hurt in the long run should current problems persist. A newpaper that receives a drastic reduction in circulation is not likely to survive over the long term. How this will affect the sportsbook may still be unclear. My only advice is to follow the latest news on this matter religiously if you are indeed a client. One point I'd like to stress is that thus far I have not heard of any negative impact on the sportsbook stemming from this situation other than mention of possible switch to a Canadian bank. Keep in mind that this info is readily available over the net on such sites as Vegasinsider.com BTW, the names of these two entities have momentarily slipped my mind so please feel free to refer to other web sites to obtain such info. http://www.bettorsworld.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Blue Avenger]

Even if his publisher goes under, don't weep for the writer of those controversial articles.

I'm sure with his reputation and journalistic integrity, he'll be able to land a job writing for SCORE!
http://www.bettorsworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

[oddswiz]

At this point,we'd feel left out and disappointed if we weren't trashed each week in the rag......

[Groz]

Not that it is my business, but I have a question. I truly enjoy reading the posts and think Bettorsworld is great, but I am curious. I have read that Brian and Jeff do all this for free(Thank you Brian and Jeff).
Who gets all of the ad money from the sponsors? Is it just a wash? Thanks for any information.
One nosy reader,
Groz

[Joser]

I THINK, that you keep reading that the SITE is free, not that they do all the work for free. I have no idea what they do, but I would imagine for all the time they put in, they take something back...as well they should IMO

[Hartley]

The site also costs money to run. Even non profit organizations have to make money to pay salaries, overhead etc. - not that I'm suggesting this site is non-profit.

[ACE]

Well, its nice that all you people on the inside info have a clue about what book it is, but I personally would like to know which book it is, because I think it may be one that I am a member of and it may be the one I posted about that caused a controversy about 2 weeks ago. Please clarify or email me at dc41@hotmail. Thanks.

[STING]

First word rymes with "King Fish"
Last Word Rymes with re "Gretting"
Hope this helps. There's a word in the middle as well. (:

[ACE]

I must be totally off here. I thought you were referring to the L V S N and E S B. I thought that may be what you were reffering to, but I thought they were pretty solid. Thanks for the clarification.

[PEPOCAS]

e s b is solid, ask anyone who plays thier!

[ACE]

Pepocas,
I know, I do too.

[Hartley]

I'm sure people felt dial-a-bet and Top Turf were solid too, until one day they could no longer get through on the telephone. I don't know the truth of the matter, nor would I try and imply that they are in trouble. But there could be internal problems that aren't noticed when you call to place a bet. Don't judge a book by its cover (sorry).

[shilo]

luckily some of you people have had positive
experiences with the sportsbook in question. You need to do some more research and find out about employees advertisers and players who were either slowpayed or never payed. Also people who were payed with rubber checks.

[greg]

Does this mean i wont be gettinng my free box of cigars for posting up last week? in any case i was wondering why the were bugging me to repost after i kicked thier butt last year.

[Blue Avenger]

When I think about it, there is connection between this publication's "hit pieces" and the fact that they're paying with rubber checks.

It smells of desperation.

I think it's a last-ditch effort on the publisher's part to coerce potential sponsors, who may figure that it's worth the money they pay to advertise if "the editor" calls off "the dog."

Also, this publication seems willing to go to ridiculous lengths to support its existing sponsorship. In their latest edition, they again warn everyone to take their money out of any internet-based wagering accounts because of future legislation. Of course, they have no objection to off-shore telephone wagering. It's no coincidence that their main sponsor offers phone wagering, but no internet wagering.

I've heard that this publication is being pulled from many of the casinos in Vegas. In the city where I live, the major chain of newsstands has also dumped it.

It's just a matter of time until they're gone. Let's hope it's soon, so that more good reputations aren't damaged by their irresponsible journalism.

[STING]

Blue Avenger, trust me when I tell you that those who get criticized in the paper (just about everybody except for one sportsbook) find the articles to be quite amusing and think very little more. FYI, Jeff and Brian were given honorable mentions for a record 3 weeks straight. Often, but not always, excessive bad-mouthing of a particular operation or specific individuals is an indication of their success. One needs to look no further than Bettorsworld and World Sports Exchange who get battered on a regular basis. I would even guess that Brian and Jeff may feel a bit of disappointment that the paper is vanishing from newsstands and Vegas books since I'm sure the articles have steered many curious readers to this FREE site. BTW, the $300 bounced check made out to Lynda Collins has been posted over the net. The newspaper has also disappeared off the shelves of most New York City newsstands (why spend money on a paper that only tells 40% of the truth?........the gambling professionals of NYC are far too smart for that).
BTW, I understand this paper was once a staple of many books in Vegas - but the turn-around appears to have become evident over the last few months, especially in recent weeks.

[Blue Avenger]

The swirling has begun, and pretty soon this publication will be down the drain. Hopefully, some other publisher will step in to fill the void--this was a good _idea_ for a paper, even if the execution was poor.

My concern now is for the folks who have money in the closely-allied sportsbook. As Jeff pointed out so well, this time of year is "The Danger Zone" for sportsbook failures. If the publication is paying with rubber checks during the peak season, what will happen to the sportsbook after the Super Bowl?

[Tarheel]

This is ridiculous. First off, I've never posted anything in this forum, but I do not work or promote any sportsbook. I have accounts with ***, SOS, WWTS, Olympic, Bowmans and WSEX.

I've always gotten paid by all of them (yes even ***). I just requested a $4,000 payout from *** and I am confident that the FedEx truck will be outside my house at around Noon on Thursday. If it wasn't in my hand by early next week, I'd be the first to write in to this forum and vent my anger.

I use the 6 sports books above for various reasons. One reason I like *** is because you can ALWAYS get through to them. If there is a sportsbook out there with more operators answering the phone, I havn't found it yet. Try calling Bowmans between Noon and 1 on a Sunday. Good Luck.

Anyway, like I said I'm not promoting ***. I think their operators are terrible, but I can live with that. Until someone comes up with something more than, Trust me they're in trouble, I will continue to play with them. So will all of their players.

[Underdog7]

Tarheel - so who the hell is ***? This forum is not a guessing game. On the other hand I would like to thank you for posting it. It will help a lot of people and that is the purpose of this whole thing. Anyway, let me guess, is it "GSC"? Good luck to you.

[Tarheel]

If you've read the previous postings, the sports book is clear. It starts with an E and ends with a B. I think there's an S in the middle. I've never played with GSC but I've heard they're solid.

[STING]

Underdog7, unfortunatelly, neither the book's name nor the papers name can be mentioned in this forum due to the fact that the publisher has on numerous occasions threatened lawsuits
against just about everybody. There is an interesting article written in Lou's column in http://www.covers.com you may wish to check out for more info. Anyway, I have really not heard much regarding this book not paying out in the past, however, one must be cautious when considering the problems the paper is having these past couple of weeks.
Difficulty paying employees is a sure sign of financial problems regardless of how bad a bank First Union is (which they are right about). Las Vegas sportsbook and other businesses removing the publication from their shelves is yet another sign of problems. I've always had a problem with the way this organization seems to insult the intelligence of their customers by stating that Bowman's purports to be a British sportsbook when in fact they are operating on the island of Mauritius, yet the sportsbook associated with this publication tries to appear more British than anyone else out there but operates on the island of Jamaica.
Keep in mind, Sports International had the respect and longevity - then look what become of them. This book has also drawn a great deal of negative attention to itself.

[thekid]

Call me a an idiot, but this sportsbook which possibly could stand for ***. That isnt easybets right. I am new to this forum. I also have a account with easybets.

[STING]

No...it is not EaSy Bets

[thekid]

thanks Sting, I didnt think it was.

[STING]

FYI, both entities (the paper and the book) have now threatened to sue another website for displaying the rubber check paid to one of their employees. I was reading the info regarding this situation and apparently the vice president of the sportsbook has sworn in an affidavit that the book and paper are NOT related. There appears to be much evidence to the contrary.
If this is true regarding the affidavit, this is a more serious situation then I even thought. The book and paper were also quick to back down when this was brought up by the attorney representing the website.

[toolman]

I am sure of whom you are talking about, and I beleive they are both solid.

[STING]

Actually, I always felt these 2 places were rather solid myself up until a few weeks ago.
A lot of the past criticism has been aimed at the character flaws of some of those involved mainly where the publication was concerned. If the story about the affidavit is true, and a relationship between the two businesses can be established, I would be concerned regardless of how solid they may appear now. I just hope this does not turn into another situation like Sports International. Right now, It's in their best interest to pay you since they're running a business. Just ask yourself this question: If there comes a time when they do feel compelled to shut down this business, are you confident that these are men of integrity who are always upfront and truthful and that they are going to pay you all your money due? If the answer is "YES", then you probably have nothing to worry about.

[toolman]

Actually I used to ahve an account with them but it only lasted a couple of days because I cound't reach there bet line phone. I had to call the main number and go through so much trouble to actually get lines and make wagers. I decided to go other ways.

[Hamhog]

There are a lot of missing details.

I seriously doubt they bounced a $300 check.
I saw the article on the other websight.
Sounds to me like a feud.
Did the check bounce or was a stop payment issued?

I am not a big fan of negative marketing campaigns and mudslinging, but that is an extremely minor issue for me when selecting an offshore sports book.

My key questions are:

1) Does the book pay?
2) Do they offer lines and/or sports that are different than the competition.

I requested a payment from the book in question book on monday and got the check today (pretty fast for the industry). If the check bounces, I will post a follow up.

A lot of people seem to take the negative marketing very personally. Anyone can see through the articles ripping the competition.
Those articles have helped my pick some of my better outs.

It seems to me that these accusations serve as fodder for proponents of the Kyll Bill.
"Protect the American public from unscrupulous offshore sports books" and more importantly protect Las Vegas. Vegas doesn't even want sports anymore - all they want is their grind/no lose table/machine games. If there was a way to outlaw internet casino games and leave the sportsbetting alone, they would do it in a heartbeat.

All rambling aside, my opinion is that this forum would be better served with less of the He said/She said stuff and more solid info about which books are credible and are not Don Best McBook clones.

That said, each of the following offers something unique and has paid:

SOS
Olympic
Bowmans
The book in question

[stardust]

Sting,

What is the deal with fear over being sued? Do you mean to tell me that you are so afraid of being sued that you will not say who we are talking about? Be serious man. What kind of world do you live in where you are afraid to speak the truth?

Perhaps someone should consult a lawyer, as truth is always a defense to slander and liable.

I'll post the bounced check on my site and let them come and get me. As far as I am concerned, sc*mbags and their lawyers need to be exposed for what they are. No jury would give them a cent. Fear? Fear of what?

Still afraid? Mail me the details and use an anon mailer. What do you say? As always - Good Luck,

Sonny

[Hartley]

Hamburg I saw a copy of the check on another site. It clearly said "insufficient funds".

[STING]

Stardust, I promise that as soon as I have my new PC set up I will post my e-mail address here and give whatever info I can, including the names, so that you can post this info on your site. I will not post the names here out of respect for Bettorsworld.

Hamburg, the bounced checks are displayed on this other site for viewing pleasure. You're right about the feuding and trying to sort out the truth. I can care less about the paper, but when it comes to the sportsbook, clients and potential clients need to be informed of what is being reported over the web. Presently, the operator of the other site in question has posted he received 2 death threats that he alleges were traced back to the paper in question and he claims an investigation is underway.

[Hamhog]

There are two checks on the other site-

The first check is stamped "Insufficient funds unless otherwise indicated".
I think that means either the check bounced or something else was indicated.

The second check also has the "Insufficient funds unless otherwise indicated" stamp and a second stamp that says "Refer to maker".
Does the "Refer to maker" mean the "otherwise indicated" is in effect?

Maybe the check bounced, maybe it was cancelled. I think the real question is - Are they in financial trouble?

My experience with them says no.

[STING]

I think another question to pose now is: Are they in legal trouble?....All feuding aside, the operator of the other site claims an investigation is under way realted to death threats in which the second was traced to the paper in question. The book apparently has filed a lawsuit against him for posting that they are going to be out of business soon. I definatelly do not want my book involved in a court case! Let's just assume he's not totally out of his mind and everything that he is saying is true, what is going to happen if a link is drawn between the paper, which operates out of PA and the sportsbook, which operates out of Jamaica and claims on their webpage to be licensed in Antigua (while the Antiguan Licensing Authority has a warning posted on their site regarding this book)? BTW, Discovery will have to be presented by both sides. I'm not so sure wagering accounts would be admissible.

[Groundhog]

This is my first post.I've been visiting this site for over a year now and have found tons of useful info here.I would just like to write that English Sports Betting was the first book i ever signed up with and i have never had any problems collecting or cashing their checks.They offer a wide range of bets on all major sporting events and i was pleased with them. However i have stopped using them due to the difficulty and cost of sending funds to them . I'm now with Easybets as they do still accept Western Union and credit my account for the costs of sending funds as long as i send at least 200 dollars. Although they take longer to pay and they don't yet offer teasers they do pay and their checks are good. This is what my experiance has been in using offshore books.I would hope that if anybody got stiffed by ANY book they would send a heads up to us all. Thanks for the time .

GROUNDHOG

[Hamhog]

Sting,

Legal problems could be trouble.
However, the same argument could be used against WSEX. Everything I have read about them indicates they are a class operation.

Sportsbooks and Banks alike face difficulty when customers withdraw their funds en masse.
Last January and April some offshore operations went under partially due to the exodus of funds.

In effect, the rumors can shape the reality.

Having the book in question as an out is of value to me. Their lines tend to be favorite inflated and they offer a decent assortment of sports and props.

The other site indicates a desire to link the publication and book. If the death threats are real, I can't really blame him.
However, he is not doing the offshore industry or the sportsbettor a favor.

I am not going to close my account with the book in question. If they go under due to the negative campaign, I will lose money.

It is also likely that the government/Kyl bill supporters will use this situation and others like this as a justification of the criminalization of the sports bettor.

Ultimately, less infighting would benefit everybody.

[stardust]

OK, so EasyBets is the Book? Where is the site with the checks displayed?

Sting:
I don't understand the idea that you don't want to post the names out of respect for Bettors World. How is that disrespect?

Brian - Jeff - will you feel disrespected by naming names?

OK anyone want to tell me the site where the checks are posted?

I understand that you all must be in terrible fear of being, sued and killed - and not neccesarily in that order.

I think it is time to go into deep cover with Hunter Thompson. Killers, killers everywhere!

[Poof]

To Sting: You frequently refer to the incident this past summer when Dennis Humphrey of EZ Bets and Frank Masterana of Caribbean Sports were jailed in the Dominican Republic for refusing to pay bribes to Dominican officials...How do you know about this incident? Did you learn it from a media source you love to trash but, when it suits your needs, you quote from as an authority? That story appeared only one place...I take no sides in you vs. them but let's face it sting you are quite a hypocrite and you know it...you can't trash something as unreliable and then quote their story as reliable

[STING]

Poofy, I got this info from a couple of posting forums prior to reading more about it in that trash tabloid of yours. But, I will say this, half the information he prints is actually TRUTH. The info regarding the DR is fairly wide known.

[stardust]

Sting,
For a guy who needs to set up his new PC, you sure do post a lot. Everything but the facts, that is. Why not take 15 seconds and send me the info in the mail.

Better yet - just post it yhere for all to see. I don't understand your hang-up.

Tell me the source and I will look for it myself.

Sonny

[stardust]

Sting, you say:


"Stardust, I promise that as soon as I have my new PC set up I will post my e-mail address here and give whatever info I can, including the names, so that you can post this info on your site. I will not post the names here out of respect for Bettorsworld."

JUST send the mail out to stardst@erols.com. Takes all of 20 seconds.

Also:

"I can care less about the paper, but when it comes to the sportsbook, clients and potential clients need to be informed of what is being reported over the web. "

OK so then inform us instead of running in circles, arriving nowhere and telling us nothing.

Remember, stay in deep cover. As always - Good Luck,

Sonny

[STING]

Stardust, Easybets is NOT the book we are talking about. The book we are taling about does start with the letter "E", however. Please wait for me to get my PC up and I will send you all info so that you can post it on your website. The other site operator is supposedly being sued for a few million by the book in question; I certainly have no intent on placing Jeff and Brian in that same predictament.

the only reason information is being posted here is so that people who hace money with the sportsbook are made aware of what's being reported on other sites over the net. One of the main objectives of this forum is to keep gamblers informed about the latest activities going on in the world of offshore sportsbooks. If this situation was not addressed and something was to actually go awry with the book in the future, Bettorsworld would undoubtably take a great deal of flack for not reporting the situation. Having made this info readilly available, clients of this sportsbook can simply ask one of the operators or supervisors if the book does in fact intend to bring a website operator to court and what if any affect this will have as it relates to their confidential wagering account when the other side requests all discovery in this matter.

[stardust]

Sting,
Ok so if the idea is to keep people informed, I have to say that the whole rap on this topic is very uninformative.

So mail me the facts when you get a chance. I just get a little irked at people who are afraid to speak out due to the threat of litigation. That is what motivates some to get law degrees.

I don't have an account with anyone that fits that description, so I guess I shoudn't worry.

As always - Good Luck,

Sonny