Off shore books

[2]

[4]

[17]

[2]

[6]

[6]

[9]

[black and blue]

I'm a nevada player and haven't had a need for an off shore book. However the best game on the board in my oppinion this week is BYU +3.5 v. Air Force. I can't leagaly bet this game due to the location being in Las Vegas. I am thinking of going with an off shore book that has the game. I need info on the most reputable and best deals with lowest investment needed. I hate to send money when I can bet here at home but thats the only way to play this game. A little help please.

[STING]

GSC has the same line of -3 1/2. I wrote a little thing about them in the Breaking News section (it's actually a pretty long report).
Good place....Minimum to deposit is $300 though.

[PaulieDV]

What is going on with Easybets? It took 15 minutes to access then while I was making my wagers the system froze up and I got that dreaded too many users error message. Alan, you need to address these issues, it is a Tuesday not Sunday morning.

[emmitt52]

Black and Blue-
Try Sterling. They are reputable and cater to players(novice and pro) from the vegas area. www.wagepage.com.. I bet them over the net, but you can do phone or net if you like...

[timbo]

And to make matters worse, they deny any problem when I called.

[bogieboy]

NASA is good.
STERLING is good.
WWTS is good.
All pay on time and have low initial deposits for new customers.

[Paul]

I have an account with Intertops and have been well satisfied with them. They have a low minimum deposit ($6.00 minimum) and a minimum wager also of $6.00. They have been around a long time. Their website is at
http://www.intertops.com

You might also look at the banner at the top of this page and click on one of those
sportsbooks. All of them are reputable.

Even if you live in Nevada it can be advantageous to have one or several offshore accounts. Being able to log onto the net, check some lines and place a wager can be convenient. Most offshore sportsbooks take action on games played in Nevada or involving Nevada teams.

[Underdog7]

There is no doubt Easybets pays but their customer service is not that good. I would give a 3 in a scale of 1-10. The only reason why I am still with them is mainly because of the lines are very comptetitive.

[Hartley]

I don't think you can legally bet offshore from Nevada. Most books won't let you open an account if you have a Nevada, Wisconsin or Pennsylvania address.

[ShiftySheik]

I get those error messages all the time at Easybets. They are best used as an extra out since their server is constantly having problems.

[Underdog7]

Hatrley - Nevada I can understand, but what's up with Wisconsin and Penn.

[Paul]

This really varies from sportsbooks. Some dont accept accounts from certain states and others say its the responsibility of the customer to ensure its legal to place a wager.

One of the books I am with is
http://www.sportsbook.com
They dont appear to put any limits on where they will accept customers from.

These policies do change from time to time
and different books will embargo different states. They need to be checked out on an individual basis.

[timbo]

Amen to you, Fatboy

[STING]

In Pennsylvania, you're just allowed to accept bets, not place them http://www.bettorsworld.com/ubb/wink.gif

In New York and New Jersey, you will not get in trouble for placing a wager. Different states have different laws. In California, for example, you will be imprisoned for placing a wager.

[OLD MAN]

Im assuming you dont have a "reputable"
illegal bookmaker to bet with in town.

[STING]

I don't know too much about online computer systems, but when I was in the Dominican Republic a few weeks ago the power went out at least 8 times in 1 week and there was not even a storm (this was the Northern part of the island). I don't know if this would affect the servers at all or if this is even the problem. At another extreme, the DR does have one of the more advanced phone systems in the world.

[Paul]

Santo Domingo is much more toward the southern part of the country and is in fact on the southern coast facing the Carribbean Sea. There doesnt seem to have been previous problems with power outages for either Easy Bets or SIA.

[black and blue]

Old Man Reputable illeagal is a oxy-moron in my humble opinion. I have been thinking of opening a small $300 account anyway because several time I would have loved to bet against UNLV in football. Thanks for the info. people.

[Underdog7]

Well guys, I am calling all the people who have accounts with Easybets "before it is too late" to respond on this asap. We need to dig more on what is going on. We had been hearing
negative things about SIA and affiliation with Easybets. The only thing I didn't really want is they are denying affiliations with each other. So, if they are lying, how could we trust them, simple as that. For the meantime,and security purposes I will be pulling my account with Easybets today but in fairness with them I also need some inputs on what exactly is happening. Someone knows more on just what we hear. Thank you.

[AYCE]

I guess I am wrong.

I used to think they are good places to place a bet. But seeing situation turned into this, I can't agree more - get your money as soon as you can and run.

Even if they are actually having a server problem, this will hurt them a lots and I seriously question what will happen after the football season.

After all, they are not the only one with good odds on dogs. And the bottom line is, wether you will be got paid should go first.

[Underdog7]

O.k. FatBoy. Since you responded, I assumed you recognized me cuz I don't want to be ignored. Just kidding. Anyway, dealing with any offshores is definitely a risk, however I can recommend SOS above all just because of the experienced I had with them. I also had few accounts with others but SOS just suits my needs. If you will ask me how safe is your money, I'm sure nobody can guarantee that. Good luck to you.

[Groundhog]

I have an account with Easybets and i haven't really had problems using their website.Now i am worried about my money with all these negative posts here.The reason i joined them was because they were recommended here!!!!Has anybody had problems collecting from them!!!Do you guys consider them high risk now!!Help!

[easybets]

For those people who are worry about SIA I have made a call over there with its owner Jim and had confirmation that they do indeed have a serious Server Problem caused by the Installation of a new Web Application Software. Our affiliation was simple. We Brought our sports betting software from them and in return offer them office space and payment acceptance mechanism. Now that we have our own in house IT department and they have their own facilities we on longer share resources. I have no doubt that Jim is making every attempt to solve its Server problems. For those people who are worry about payout, I do not see any remote chance of financial difficulty at their end.

[Underdog7]

I had no problem collecting from them. But with all these negative postings it is just normal to feel uneasy about it,more specially if your account exceeds four digits. Now, this question is for the one who responded from Easybets. Who are you? How come you didn't mention your name? I know three people from your office. Is there a way you could reveal yourself and I will call you directly.
Thank you very much.

[easybets]

This is Tim from Easybets. I have always included the reply email address with my postings. I understand people would naturally worry when negative postings appears and the sports site concerned should promptly answer concerns.

[KWANTAI]

I cannot open their wet site. and i request payment 5 days ago, and cannot recieve it. And their telephone number is not connectable. what should i do?

[KWANTAI]

Attention fatboy, please. I know ace inthe hole is your faverite book, as you mentioned in the forum. Do you have problem with them? please let me know. thankyou.

[Joser]

I'd like to make a request that any and all talk of the Big Book referal program be taken out of both of the forums.

I am really opposed to the free marketing they are trying to get and the likel millions of spam emails they have generated.

I have no problem if someone makes ONE post about it, but including your referral number is pretty low class IMO

[oddswiz]

I agree.We were just waiting for someone to say something,which you just did.From here on in,it won't be allowed..........Jeff

[Ticktape]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does IMO stand for?

[STING]

This particular posting has appeared in a number of posting rooms and should have gone no further. These books all start crying when we tear them apart in this forum for coming in here with this BS - THEY need to be held accountable and accept the consequences.

[rfd]

Is AceintheHole paying anybody out there?
I'm waiting since October and all I get is a runaround. Really could use their tel.# as they only answer e-mails sporadically.

Thanks,
rfd

[rfd]

Thanks Fats,

Will let you know how I make out

[rfd]

Fats,
Spoke with Jeane who said the checks(I am waiting for 2)were not mailed until last Friday(12/4). I should get them by early next week.
Familiar tune,except apparently you have better mail delivery than I.
We shall see.

rfd

[Paul]

Anyone who is here soliciting business for THE BIG BOOK with their referral number should be considered a paid tout. TBB themselves may be a decent sportsbook but they should stand on their own merits rather than this referral program. Any recommendation for TBB that includes a referral number lacks creditibility.

[luceduce]

thats unfortunate. the guy that owns this sportsbook is a real *******, whose been ousted from a couple of industries. looks like he can add another to his resume. he might even be banned from a couple of islands because of his shady tactics.... when he opened this book he was on these pages badmouthing a bunch of places, for the benefit of his own. well those places are still standing, and his customers are still waiting for checks from october. looks like your company name precedes you>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ace"IN THE HOLE".

[Groz]

Fatboy,
What does doubling up on your secure outs mean? What happens if you lose on the teams you bet with your secure outs, and win with Ace in the Hole, you probably won't get paid anyway. Then you lose double what you would normally bet in hoping you drive your balance down with Ace in the Hole. I must not be thinking clearly as to your logic.

Good Luck,
Groz

[rfd]

The both sides bets thing is a double-edged sword. I have a sizeable balance with Inetsportsbook(aka paradisesportsbook and a host of other names)that I cannot collect and had been doing the same thing.Worked well for a while and I managed to move a nice chunk of money to a paying book. Then a couple of bets lost and I started to give it back so I stopped. All in all I did move about $4k out of the account so it did help. It's a risky move but sometimes it's your only option.

BTW,just got today's mail,no check for me either.

rfd

[Hamhog]

Your "bet losers with a book that doesn't pay and bet winners with a book that pays" theory is salty.

You are just as well off using the "bet winners with a book that pays" strategy.
You will save phone calls and time.

[rfd]

Actually it depends on whether the book in question is a "slow pay" or "no pay". If "no pay" I agree with you totally. Just bet a winner at a paying book. If "slow pay",a negative outcome is not necessarily a loss, you just don't know when you will see the money. Determining whether a book falls into the slow pay or no pay category is another question!

rfd

rfd

[ray]

First of all, I don't have an account there. But I've followed the situation because one of my friend have an account in this place.

And this is his story.

He opened an account with $100 (by online credit card) and won some money there. Then he requested an payout of $600 about 3 to 4 weeks ago. But till this moment nothing arrived yet.

He called and e-mailed them many times and just received excuses after excuses. Untill several days ago, he received an e-mail as follows,

This is a classic!!!

*********
We have credited your credit card already . However we can only credit back
$100 on your card and so there is a pending check for $500 in your name. We
have sent you an email asking you to fill up some information for us to
release that check. but then we have not received such form. If you can fax
us that form we will release the check right away.

I attached the form again .

------------------------------Form

Dear Sir/Madam:

As part of our quality assurance control, we kindly request you to fill out
the attached form. It is our main concern to protect our customer and
company against fraudulent users as well as avoiding future chargebacks. All
the information provided would be kept confidential and would be used
strictly for security and address verification purposes. We regret not being
able to process any cash request, until this information is provided.

Regarding my account in Ace in the Hole: _____________

I hereby authorize all charges issued from AceintheHole to my credit card .
Following is my relevant information for processing on this account.


Full Name
Name as it appears on the card
Issuing Bank Name
Card Number
Expiration Date
Address
(as it appears on my bank statement for this card)

Zip Code
Telephone number


A copy of the following documents must be faxed along with this form:
 Drivers license or other valid identification (i.e. passport).
 Copy of the front and back of the card for signature verification.
 Copy of utility or telephone bill under my name to this address.

If for a valid reason, I can not provide one or more of the aforementioned
documents , I understand I will have to contact AceInTheHole to make
alternative arrangements. Any other documentation submitted for this purpose
will be kept in my file along with the information supplied.

I hereby certify that the information provided is true and correct to the
best of my knowledge.



Card Holder Signature

Once this form has been completed, please fax it back to us at
1-888-873-5797.

Thank you in advance for your prompt compliance,
Sincerely,


Fraud Control Manager
Ace In The Hole

************

CLASSIC!!!

To Fraud Control Manager - if a payout must be done in this way, shoot me please!!!

[Hartley]

A lot of places require this. Usually it is up front though, not after the fact.

[STING]

Yeah Hartley, but "Fraud Control Manager"?
Gimme a break!

[rfd]

While many places might require a credit card authorization form for a specific charge I know of no other place that requires you to authorize ALL charges made to the card.

"I hereby authorize all charges issued from AceintheHole to my credit card" .

I interpret all to mean any charge made to the credit card account -past,present or future-- at whatever amount they choose to fill in. Why not! You have already authorized it.

Also apparently they have edited the part where you have "5 days to return the signed form or your account will be terminated". That was on the bottom when I first received this form back in October.

rfd

[ray]

"I hereby authorize all charges issued from AceintheHole to my credit card" .

Thats exactly what the guy was worrying about. This statement is just like,

I will give you everything as long as you want it!!

Or,

You can own my soul!!!

[rfd]

All is not lost, Fats

I received an e-mail yesterday regarding my withdrawals stating that a check was mailed yesterday in addition to the check from 12/4/98. Also,funds were returned to 2 separate credit cards. Haven't been able to verify the credit card refunds but the check from 12/4/98 arrived today. The postmark was obscured so I can't verify when the check was mailed, but the check was dated 12/2/98. Should the credit card refunds check out I would have good reason to believe the last check was also mailed and perhaps this story will have a happy ending.

Hope you get paid soon,
rfd

[SportsWatchDog]

For those of you not getting paid on time, I thought you would like to know how to contact the owner of Ace In The Hole.

email for more info
sportswatchdog@hotmail.com


[Note: This message has been edited by oddswiz]

[cashpumper]

I don't wish to belittle anyone who is having problems from collecting from Aceinthehole, cuz I've been burned before. But if you measure the time from request for payout to time you recieve using a monthly calendar, you'd best get off that wagon.

Consider the practice of Bowmans changing the line (nailing you -0.10) when you drop a wad on a team when they "confirm". People read all these snipes about this sort of thing here and elsewhere. While it may be a valid point, and one you can personally do something about (ie: go elswhere), the downside is that those that read it think "Bowmans is not a good place". To you, maybe. But to them, if they've never used it, they miss the fact that while this practice occurs, they do pay out, and in all other respects run a decent op.(ok, the server is a pig too).

Granted, people are free to choose where they put their money. But I think it would be far more constructive if people who are happy with a place say so, and when they slag another, be sure to BE FAIR about it. Don't paint them with one word if they have better points about them.

Ca$h Pumper
(Not to confused with "Cash Pomer" - a tout not worth a penny)

[STING]

Fats, I may be wrong but I think Cashpumper's point is that there are a lot of solid books out there with stellar reputations for payouts, yet these sames books may turn off some because they change their lines, do not ofer bonuses, etc..., yet what good is it going with a book that offers inviting lines and 20% bonuses if they are not going to pay?
Anybody considering a book should begin with those listed at the top of this page as well as Bowman's and Intertops. Each of these books may have had some negative aspect at one point in time (except of course SOS) but bottom line is that they are ALL solid and the positives far outweigh the negaitves. I don't even recall seeing Ace In the Hole listed on the Sportsbook Survey. That survey had its flaws but one thing I got out of it is to be extra careful of those sportsbooks that did not want to participate. not that this is a scientifically proven measuring device, but I just have to question "why wouldn't they participate?"

[dtana]

Forgive me as I'm new to this forum but
I've had similar experience with Bowmans
as Cashpumper. But what i don't understand is why so much time is spent by some on marginal operations. Why take
all these unecessary gambles on these outfits when there are at least a half dozen reputable books. What, is this all
about trying to get the 10 or 15% bonus.
So what if you have to use the phone as
opposed to online.

[STING]

dtana, good point. Unfortunately, like Fats and myself, until we stumbled upon this forum, our main source of offshore info was either Pro Football Weekly or for many the radio. These are chalk full of ads from less than reputable sportsbooks. Most of the books that advertised last year are no longer with us OR ARE WITH US but going by some other name. Word of mouth is so very important (in fact I know GSC now gets the biggest percetage of its business from word of mouth) as well and there are a few other books out there that are solid that may not necessarily advertise heavily on this site.
Easybets has enjoyed a good rep as has Bowman's, Olympic, ABC Island, and Action Sports book out of St. Marteen. AS ALWAYS, DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

[Hartley]

I can never understand these owners that have hotmail accounts as their e-mail addresses.

That alone should be a hint to stay away from the company. After all, if the guy needs a free e-mail account to handle complaints, then how likely is it he will be able or willing to pay customers?

IMO, any book worth a grain of salt will have an address at the company name (or service provider) to handle complaints. To me a hotmail address is essentially saying "I can't be bothered to handle complaints, so send it to my free account where I can ignore it."

[cashpumper]

Fats, you were the last guy I wanted to bother. Your choice of posting here is EXACTLY the best move you've made so far. As Sting has said in his prior message, my point was to bring to the attention of everyone that what counts FIRST and FOREMOST is the book's payout practices and policies and their bookkeeping of your transactions and bets. If it takes them a long time to provide funds, or to provide you with your balance when you ask for it, you've got trouble (barring an OCCASIONAL system down problem). All good books pay, answer your questions to your satisfaction, and go out of their way to make sure you don't go elsewhere, and all without any delay.

Sting's point about people discovering "the truth" about sports books after discovering them through advertisements is gospel for many of us. When you step into the world of gambling through ads (in countries or states where you cant do it locally), its already a lost cause. The scammers target us knowing that locally their isn't much concern for a person that loses money gambling, even if he or she isn't being shafted.

What is unfortunate is that NONE of these magazines that carry these ads have any interest whatsoever in stopping the scenario you find yourself in. They likely know all too well what most of these scams are all about, but want the revenue the ads net them.
Since gambling losses are akin to admitting "stupidity", these mags likely aren't getting any heat from people their advertisers have burned. That, or they feel than can ignore the few that do complain, and ignore the problem. While I don't they are "responsible", I think they contribute to the problem by not carrying tips or info for those that wish to gamble through a phone/net bookie service.

This posting forum is a great place, but people reach it far too late in many cases. A "watchdog" and/or "gamblers tip" site that employs net advertising through banners could go a long way in spreading the word. Anyone who has been burned and who loves writing HTML could start something like this to catch people before they fall - a news spreader.

If I put up a home page, you can be sure that this forum would have a link with a prefix reading something like "Betting via Phone? Read Bookieshell Posting Forum here and learn where NOT to put your money." If you run a page, add this place as a link and get the word around. It cant hurt!

<h5>Ca$hPumper</h5>

[rfd]

Glad to hear it, Fats

Merry Christmas

rfd

[oddswiz]

Cash Pumper wrote:
>This posting forum is a great place, but >people reach it far too late in many cases. >A "watchdog"
and/or "gamblers tip" >site that employs net advertising through >banners could go a long way in
spreading the word.



DAMN.I wish I thought of that!.....seriously though,perhaps you've found your way to this posting forum without catching the rest of Bettorsworld.Have a look around.I think we have you covered.What you mention is exactly what we have been doing for the last 3 years................

[STING]

Unfortunately these places prey on those who do not have access to the internet so all the
web sites in the world won't help although it's amazing to go to other forums (even this one for that matter) and still see people recommending books that do not have a proven track record. In the next few years this trend should change dramatically, but keep in mind there are still people out there that don't have cable television so expect the scammers to have a thriving business for at least the next 5 years if not more. BTW, a still know quite a few people who do not even know how to use the computer and I would not expect them to be interested in the internet any time soon.

[rfd]

Sting,
Don't think you are aware of the fact that until the emergence of this thread AceintheHole was on the Complete List,right there with Bowmans,Intertops,et al. And until recently, I(and apparently others) would have agreed with their inclusion.**** happens even with good shops.

rfd

[oddswiz]

I don't think Sting was necessarily referring to Ace in the Hole in his post.I think it was more of a general statement.

Either way,a couple of things need to be noted.

Yes,Ace in the Hole has been taken off the list.It wasn't however,just this thread.We received a couple of other complaints a month or so ago,which also came into play.

It also needs to be noted that those previous complaints were in fact taken care of,as it appears the complaints in this thread are as well.

The problem has been explained to me as a credit card processing problem......perhaps.I've also been told that Ace in the Hole is not necessarily in bad shape financially,rather just the opposite.But the fact remains,that there is an obvious problem somewhere.Whether it's a problem with credit card processing,or some other problem,it's still taking way too long to process payments,thus,they were removed.

Lastly,and most importantly,it needs to be noted that the Complete List,is simply a list of books that have received little if any negative feedback,as well as books that have been voucched for by players that we respect.It's an inexact science.

At one time we had a cream of the crop list,and at still another time we had a real complete list,that had every book we had ever heard of on it.We scrapped both of those,for obvious reasons.

[rfd]

Didn't mean to imply that AceintheHole was taken off the Comlete List due to this thread, simply that the time frame of the two coincided.

Don't think it was entirely unreasonable however to assume that talk of "places who prey etc'" somehow referred to AceintheHole since the thread is entitled "about AceintheHole"

My point in posting was simply to say that you can "do your homework" and still have difficulty collecting. Best example I can think of is Dial-a-Bet,who I would have recommended to anyone--- right up until the phones went dead.

rfd

[cashpumper]

Thanks Oddswiz, and yes, I have been stuck in Bookieshell alone. That stems from having gotten the "enter name/password" when I tried to accessed a few other areas on Bettorsworld, and assuming then that the posting area were the only free thing going (I didnt bother to try everything in the main index after a few pass requests).

I'd been reading posts for quite a while before actually getting my own post account. Definately will snoop around elsewhere now.

Ca$hpumper

PS: Hope to find a "gallery" of most offensive ads run by touts and book joints, or a hall of fame of same.

[AceintheHole Marketing]

I couldnt nelp but notice:
Aces Casino and Acessportsbook, who who made a bold attempt at swaying our customers in the previous post, the domain is registered to a HOTMAIL account, not only one but 2.

Now, its one thing to use a hotmail account to hide your true identity when posting opinions, but when your business is registered to an anonymous e mail account, I find it hard to validate a book like this. I'm not attempting to participate in the
mudslinging that seems to have been a favoite pasttime of some Bettorsworld members,
I am simply stating obvious observations.

Domain Name: ACESCASINO.NET
acesresorts@HOTMAIL.COM
Domain Name: ACESSPORTSBOOK.COM
f_riai@HOTMAIL.COM

Ace in the Hole is a legitimate and fair book. We have always paid our players,
and always will pay our players. Anyone representing the owner of Ace in the Hole
with a hotmail account is fradulant and should be therfore ignored.
As posted on our website, all questions and
comments should be addressed to webmaster@aceinthehole.co.cr and no other. Problems requiring immediate attention should contact me at marketing@aceinthehole.co.cr.

Ace in the Hole staff thanks and wishes its faithful players a safe and happy holiday season.

[BOOKYBASHR]

Ace In The Hole has been receiving a lot of negative posts in this group. From what I can see, this book is very slow in paying. The only thing I would like to know is: Has anyone received a payment from them recently, and if so... how long did it take?
Thanks

[STING]

Why would a sportsbook come in here and start their own thread about how they pay, etc.., etc.., etc... without addressing the thread involving posters who claim not to have been paid? Start a new thread to catch everyone's attention but ALSO address the issues at hand.

[BOOKYBASHR]

Yes, I do have an account with Ace in the Hole. My previous payout requests have been handled in very promptly. I was just checking to make sure that customers of theirs are currently still receiving payouts. Thanks for responding to my post.

[sterling]

fatman-
Call linetrak at 888-332-9003 and give them your Sterling Account info( it probably got shut off automaticly) so they can turn it on again, or call me directly at 800-630-3322 and give me the info , i'll take care of it for you..
Dan Lewis; Manager-Sterling Sports and Race..

P.S. All Bettorsworld and Oddswiz customers, if you deposited with Sterling, received Linetrak and need grace periods, just call either office and inform us. We will be more then happy to take care of it. There is no need to get "pissed off."

[sterling]

fatso-
when was our on line system down??

[sniper]

Dan - seems that you are really in a HOT SEAT!!! When will these complaints end? I am getting tired of it.

[sterling]

sniper-
I am baffled!!! No matter what we do, it is wrong. No matter how we fix it, it is not good enough.

Thank godness no one has complained about not getting paid, or paid late(you know, the insignificant stuff)...

Any suggestions???
Dan Lewis; Manager-Sterling Sports and Race