Spread betting

[alec]

I have been reading BW's forums for quite some time now and have never heard anybody even mentioning spread betting.
I think it is kind of strange, since betting in progress introduced by Dunes has got so much of attention.
I just know several spread betting companies in Britain that post their lines on Internet. Such as IG Index, City Index, Sporting Index and I guess either Hill or Ladbrokes or both of them have spread betting departments.
I myself find the concept of spread betting very attractive and the variety of betting options much greater than that of traditional fixed odds books.
So I would like to know the opinion of BW's members about this type of sports betting.
I have a lot of more specific questions, but let's see if anybody is interested in this topic at all first.

[Dot Mix]

I give up. I have no idea of what your kind of "spread betting" is, so I can't comment on it.

Can you explain please.

Thanks....Dot

[sportshobby]

Alec, it is certainly an intriguing concept. I assume you're referring to a wager which has a payoff/loss that is a function of how many points your teams wins or loses against the spread.

I think one of the resons that it hasn't gained much popularity is the much larger amount that one must risk on a game. A post-up player might have to tie up 3-4 times the expected payout, in order to cover the worst possible outcome.

[Hamhog]

Spread betting in general is inferior to action points from the player's perspective.

The UK firms often have a 2 or 3 point spread (haven't looked in a while) on their offer. The additional points more than negates laying 1/1 vs 1.1/1 on action points

[alec]

Dot Mix,
Sure. Right now I am looking at IG Index line. They accept bets in running for Champions League semifinal Valencia - Barcelona. Let's use this match as an example.
Current line is Valencia/Barcelona 0.0-0.3.
You can bet Valencia(-0.3) or Barcelona(0.0).
Suppose you bet Valencia(-0.3). You name the price for one step, which is 0.1 in this case, for instance $10. Let's see what you will win or lose depending on the final score.
Valencia-Barca 3:1
You won (((3-0.3)-1):0.1)*$10=$170
Valencia-Barca 1:2
You lost (((1-0.3)-2):0.1)*$10=-$130
The main difference from the fixed odds betting is the more you right, the more you win. And similary the more you wrong, the more you lose.
You can visit IG Index site at www.igindex.co.uk
They have a lot of examples.

[alec]

sportshobby,
As far as I understand, there is no such thing as the worst possible outcome. I believe that in general you can lose unbounded amount of money.Like in my example, if you bet Valencia and Barca win 100:0,which is possible in theory.
And I used to read something like if you have deposit, your potential loses are not restricted to this deposit. And I wonder how book can collect the money in such case.Maybe there are some special laws in Britain?

[Cons]

Alec, deposit accounts are all suject to maximum win/loss, also called a stoploss or stopwin.

This is set in the rules for deposit accounts and is diferent for every type of bet. What this means is that when you place the bet you know exactly the maximum you can lose. This is then blocked on your account.

Although this is usually good, it has negative drawbacks. If you always bet the 'over' on total goals, then being limited is never in your interest...

[alec]

Cons,
I am glad to hear from you. I remember you saying something like you had some team at (-0.9) or something like this. So I assume I can ask you a few questions.
I've heard about a stoploss rule, but thought it was an option for a bettor, not a general rule. And I also thought that this rule had something to do with the maximum number of points you could lose, not with the amount on your deposit account.
And here is a quote from IG Index rules: "Remember that if you are asked for a deposit, your potential loss is not limited to this deposit".
Please clarify it for me.
Now some general questions.
How popular is spread betting in Great Britain?
What are the most popular spread betting firms in Great Britain?
Do spread betting firms exist anywhere else except Great Britain?
How would you estimate the typical juice of spread betting?
I will be grateful if you answer any of those questions.

[AussieVamp2]

Hartley,

'Action Points' would be limited to the small number of US sports though, wouldn't they? and only some of those?

[AussieVamp2]

alec,

It has actually been talked about before.

Cons - thought when you applied for the spread betting accounts they did credit checks and there was just settlement statements?

Having a stop loss and having your deposit frozen on a Man United title buy is not too attractive then if they get to invest your money for a year!

[alec]

Hamhog,
I guess I understand what "Action Points" is. But can you please give me the names of books that offer this option.
And I think the answer to the question "what is better to bet at 1/1 with a margin or 1.1/1 without a margin?" is not an obvious one.

[Hamhog]

WSEX and Pinnacle have action points.I forget the others that do, but expect about half to offer action points.
Most shops make you use a cap of 20 points.
Some use lower caps like 15 or even 10.

[Cons]

Alec, the stoploss/win is a general rule only for deposit accounts. Every deposit account has it. Yes, it is to do with the number of points, not with the deposit on your account. But when you bet a certain amount/point, your deposit must cover the worst possible result in order to be accepted. What they do is calculate the worst possible result (using the stoploss of course), and block the full amount that you can lose on your account. This then means that you cannot lose any more than that amount. It is annoying because you often get a lot of money blocked for the duration of the bet. That's why I would never take on a long-term bet on a deposit account.

They do write that your potential losses can be greater, but this applies to credit accounts, where your deposit (if any) means nothing. You are plaing mostly with credit, so even if you have anything on the account (from recent winnings), your losses are not limited to simply what's on your account. To get a credit account you have to live and work in the UK, and the debt is recoverable by law (courts that is - fortunately they don't send around a couple of big guys to speed up the process )

With credit accounts you also rarely see stopwins/stoplosses (or they're outrageously large so you have little chance of ever getting protected by it, or having your winnings limited).

Biggest spread firms are: www.igindex.co.uk or www.igsport.com www.sportingindex.com (US sports section too) www.cityindex.co.uk www.spreadex.co.uk
William Hill also has a spreadbetting division, but I don't think they post odds online

Spread betting is popular here, but with deposit accounts it's only good for short-term markets. As for the juice, AV is the genius to ask. I could only tell you the juice on a moneyline...

[BBKing]

action points gone wrong: remember the NCAA national championship when Florida played Nebraska? final score 62-17, I believe. He had a no limit action points bet at $50 a point on Florida. ouch.

[alec]

Hamhog, Cons
Thanks.
Cons,
It is clear for me now how spread betting firms collect their winnings. So, as I understand now, it is possible to open an account from outside of Great Britain with a spread betting firm, but only a deposit one. Am I right?
From the books you listed I have not heard only about Spreadex and they obviously don't post their odds on Internet. I believe the others have much more odds posted on Sky Sports teletext, than they do on their web sites as well.
I used to watch Sky Sports teletext back in Kiev, despite the poor signal quality, and I guess almost all of the famous British books were on its pages.
On the same time only lately some of the British books created their web sites.
Why is it so? Is Sky Sports more available, than Internet is?