Dealing Two Different Lines

[BigMoney]

Dealing two different lines to customers, depending on their profile, is a greedy and predatory practice. It drives away the sharp players, and takes advantage of the casual ones by getting an extra advantage (that extra half point).

There's no use pointing a finger at a particular book for doing it, because it is fairly common. But that doesn't make it right.

These books should be avoided, and those that don't follow this practice should be applauded and raved.

To the shart player, these books are useless because they deal the same clone line that 80% of all books in the world deal. If you're shopping for the best number available, you'll almost never be able to use their number.

To the casual player who doesn't take the time to shop, perhaps has only one book, these types of books are to be avoided at all cost. He should make it a point to seek out and find a book that deals the same line to all players. This will benefit him quite a bit in the long run.

[ray]

Dealing two different lines to two different group of customers is 100% OK for me and in fact, it is the right thing to do for the books.

Like Scott said, as long as they will honor their lines, there is nothing wrong with that.

Greedy?

You think the players shopping for a better line for that extra 1/2 pt or extra 10 cents is not greedy?

How about scalp and middle?

"Sharp" is just a naive word, greed is whats inside.

If you are sharp enough, you will know when to take the line and when to pass it.

Or better yet, if you are really "sharp" enough, it doesn't matter what kind of line it will be, there must be a winner out of the 2 sides.

Nobody will force you to only choose one side.

Its just business.

A toy company in Hong Kong sold his products to different markets, he sold it for $5 a piece to the Japanese company and sold it $8 a piece to the US company.

Whats wrong with that?

The reason for the US company still wants it because under that price, it is still profitable for them.

Feel the need for greed?

Then shop for your lines. Or in this case, go to China.

[This message has been edited by ray (edited 01-28-2000).]

[mls]

Well said.

Personally I only know for sure that Betmaker does this.

I would be interested in knowing of any other books who actively seek to ripoff the small bettor, by inflating favorite lines by 1/2 point, so that I can steer clear of them and warn others.

[mls]

Well said Big Money.

As for "ray", there will always be people who approve of the big guy beating up or robbing the little guy for reasons of greed.

[Phil]

Hey - dealing two lines is not robbing the little guy. It's just smart business on the books part.

If I know every sunday you're gonna call and take the Niners no matter what, I'd be stupid not to make you pay for it.

The best thing to do if you know they deal two lines is open up another account with them under a friend's name, get the public line and HAMMER THEM.

that's the best revenge a bettor can have.

[BigMoney]

It's no surprise to me that the bookmakers are generally going to support this practice, and the players are generally going to detest it. Let's forget about right and wrong - we'd never agree anyway.

What I am saying is that these books are useless to the sharp player who shops hard to find the best line; and they are a trap to avoid by the casual player who could unsuspectingly be taken advantage of.

So they are to be avoided by all players. Not just because they are bad or unfair, but because both types of players come out ahead with a book that offers the same lines to all players.

[Cons]

I think it's totally dishonest, and I would like to know which books work this way. Since they think it's an "honest" tactic, then they won't mind us talking openly about it and posting their names for all to see.

Sportsbetting has been around in the UK probably longer than the entire history of the US. I pass half-a-dozen betting shops each day, as there's one on every major street corner.

And there is NO double line dealing here. One price for everyone, just like a normal business. If you always eat a peperroni pizza with a glass of beer every time you go to Pizza Hut, then would you say it's fair if they started giving you a different menu to take advantage of that, with the price of the peperroni pizza and beer jacked up? And then the next person walks in and gets a different menu with normal prices for those items? I'd have only one word for such a place: SCAM.

It should be a fair game, and that means the books should also play fair. Their money should come form the vig (as well as interest on bettors' deposits). And if they can't play this game by the rules then B'World members should know about it.

But since they seem to think they're doing an "ok" thing, then they can't possibly complain when we start calling names.

[mls]

BigMoney is absolutely right.

Double dealing lines does not effect the sharp bettor (or for that matter anyone with 2-3 outs).

The ONLY "target" for inflated lines are the small loyal small customers of Betmaker who do not have multiple outs - probably because they are not aware of getting a sucker line.

Some posters above might not see anything at all wrong with trying to ripoff your loyal small customers ... I cannot teach integrity here ...

[intheknow]

If your a sharp player, then you are used to getting put on hold when you call for a single game. What's the difference between a book who runs two lines and lets you play and a book who runs one line, but puts you on hold and then faces you with a different number.

[ray]

I think you guys making a mistake here.

That is not a ripoff.

That is just a different kind of gamble by the books.

You are assuming that the book will be right 100% everytime that he inflated the line and thats why they are rip off the small bettors.

This is a wrong assumption.

Why would you believe that the book will inflate the line and it will be a disadvantage to the bettors everytime?

Bottom line, nobody will force you to take the favors or the dogs.

Only it will be ripoff if the book will offer 2 different kind of payoffs to different players.

If they offer you 10-11 while offer me 10-12, then you can call them ripoff, otherwise, they inflate my line by not yours will only mean that they are willing to gamble more with me.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

[mls]

ray - obviously you are new to sports betting. (Nothing wrong with that - everyone has to start somewhere).

When a book tacks on an extra 1/2 point to the small loyal bettor without other outs, they are really charging 10/12. The reason is simply that the extra 1/2 point is worth 10 cents.

Assume my line is -5 at 10/11. My friend, the small bettor (and small bettors almost always bet the fav - and if they do not Betmaker switches them over to the real line) - this small bettor is so loyal to Betmaker that they don't have another out, and he gets - 5 1/2 at 10/11. Since -5 is the right line he has to "buy 1/2 point" which gives him my line, the true line, of
-5, but he pays 10/12.

Since my -5 costs 10/11 and his -5 costs 10/12 then by your own words I can call Betmaker a ripoff, which I agree with you they are.

Bottom line is when you take advantage of loyal customerws who do not know any better then you lack any shread of integrity.

And remember, this practice does not hurt the astute or even semi-astute bettor, because they all have other outs. The ONLY targets are Betmaker's small loyal bettors.

And I for one would like to know of any other books - if there are any - who reward there small loyal customers practice this ripoff scam with their

[mls]

ray - obviously you are new to sports betting. (Nothing wrong with that - everyone has to start somewhere).

When a book tacks on an extra 1/2 point to the small loyal bettor without other outs, they are really charging 10/12. The reason is simply that the extra 1/2 point is worth 10 cents.

Assume my line is -5 at 10/11. My friend, the small bettor (and small bettors almost always bet the fav - and if they do not Betmaker switches them over to the real line) - this small bettor is so loyal to Betmaker that they don't have another out, and he gets - 5 1/2 at 10/11. Since -5 is the right line he has to "buy 1/2 point" which gives him my line, the true line, of
-5, but he pays 10/12.

Since my -5 costs 10/11 and his -5 costs 10/12 then by your own words I can call Betmaker a ripoff, which I agree with you they are.

Bottom line is when you take advantage of loyal customerws who do not know any better then you lack any shread of integrity.

And remember, this practice does not hurt the astute or even semi-astute bettor, because they all have other outs. The ONLY targets are Betmaker's small loyal bettors.

And I for one would like to know of any other books - if there are any - who reward their small loyal customers with this ripoff scam.

[Hamhog]

I see nothing wrong with a book having 2 to 500 different lines.

Nobody is forced to take the favorite.

Would you accuse a shop in St Louis of being crooked because they added a hook to the Rams lines all year long (probably would not have helped much)?

[ray]

Again, like what I have mentioned, you are making the assumption that the bettors will take the so-called disadvantage side that the book offered.

The fact is, even the book will offer you 5.5 instead what you will called "the true line" is 5.

As long as they are offering the same vig on those lines, how could you call them ripoff?

Becaus you assumed that "those bettors" will bet on the favors no matter what the lines will be and so that is a ripoff?

In a fight, if one of the fighter will have a cut on his eye and starts bleeding, I gurantee the other fighter inside the ring will try every way to attack his wound.

Is that a ripoff?

Why normally a person who has a degree will always get a better job than a guy just have high school education?

Is that a ripoff?

Look, if you want to discuss whether its a discrimination or unfair, we could have tons of opinions here about our society, business, life...whatever.

But you just cannot accuse them being ripoff because you assumed (or actually it is) the bettors will always take the favors.

As long as they don't FORCE you to take the favors.

As long as they are taking the same vig on those lines.

Why will they move you to the "real" lines?

Because you kicked their ass, because they lost their gambles.

So its a fair game.

I understand of protecting the "small players", but unfortunately it will be very hard to do in this society nowadays.

You think other books would not want to do this?

In a perfect world, every books will offer different lines to every single players. Because every players will have different opinions on the same game and they will react to different numbers, by doing so, the books will have the best benefit as they can get.

But the real world is, there are so many restrictions that forced them can't do it in this moment, it doesn't mean that they don't want to.

[Cons]

Talk to a real bookmaker in England and he'll tell you that this tactic is on par with cheating. There's nothing else to it.

If a book tries to give you a line to make it align with your betting pattern then this is as evil as it gets. A British bookmaker would never do such a thing, because intergrity is key here. Maybe because the laws here are so tough. Betting shops display prices, and people bet the prices they see.

If a book breaks the law, then technically one person can bring the whole multi-million (billion) company down to its knees. If they screw me over, then the biggest sportsbook in the world could lose its license. So you can see how these guys take no risks. They play the game fair, and they concentrate on setting a tight line instead of setting lines to go against a player's betting patterns.

I wonder if the line "differences" are only related to US sports. I don't think they affect other sports, so in the end all this doesn't make a difference to me. But the fact that a book would go so low as to employ this tactic would have me stay away from the book in question at all costs.

And since I trust MLS's word, I will not be a Betmaker client, no matter how "solid" they portray themselves to be.