Dealing Two Different Lines

[Cons]

Just going back to prices in general, I think it's a pretty flawed argument to say that a book is doing nothing wrong because they are not FORCING you to take the bet.

Say I go to McDonalds (which I wouldn't do more than once a year anyway), and my friend gets charged $3.50 for his meal.

Then I walk up, and they say 7.50 please. Is that fair. By using the reasoning mentioned above, this should be very fair, because I am not forced to take this line and i can say no. But is it really right? If others are allowed to buy at a normal price, then why should I be targetted to pay more for the SAME PRODUCT???

Makes no sense to me. My supermarket doesn't rush to raise their beer prices every time they see me walking in (evey though they know I pick up a few cases each time), so it seems that integrity exists out there in the real world. Unfortunately, some books don't seem to be able to abide by this code of practice, and choose to go about their business dishonestly.

Oh well, I'll do my share and I'll choose to never open up an account at a place that does this, and at the same time I'll close down any acounts I have which do so.

[Jeff]

Technically, stores do charge different people different prices at times.

I can go to the Supermarket and by $100 worth of groceries.

You could go to the same store, and buy the exact same groceries, and only pay $75.

Why? You took the time to educate yourself, and are sharp enough to know that by spending a few extra minutes of your time clipping coupons, you could save some money. You are, in a sense, a wiseguy or sharp "shopper".

Me, I'm a lazy sonafabitch. I can't be bothered clipping coupons. Hell, maybe I'm not even aware that you can save money by clipping coupons. But....I pay the price for my laziness.

No different in sportsbetting. If you don't educate yourself, and realize the advantages to be had by taking the otherside of inflated prices, you pay the price....

[Cons]

If books in England (the biggest sportsbooks in the world with the longest track record behind them) can play this game straight, then I don't see why the others can't. But you're right, we should be educated on the subject, and I for one will stay away from books which try to rip-off bettors with double-lines. It's a shame, because maybe if they played the game right they would have more clients in the first place. But as it stands, people like me will boycott them, so they'll never see a penny of my money.

It's their choice, but as far as I'm concerned there are plenty of quality books out there that treat me fairly, and it is those books that will continue to generate business form customers like myself.

[Jeff]

So if all of your straight arrows have the Rams -7, and a book that you have an account with (who deals 2 lines) has the Titans +7', and you like the Titans, how are they not treating you fairly?

[The Phantom]

hey everybody, I have read all the opinions here and I am ready to give mine for whatever it's worth (not much). I have always though that the 2 lines worked like this. Square or regular players get the "original line" wiseguys get a "adjusted" line. I though books used this tactic to avoid getting "killed" by wiseguys and maybe even to drive them away without having to throw them out. I never though or heard of a book dealing the regular line to wiseguys and adjusted to regulars.

If they try to take advantage of the regular player, I think it is morally wrong but no a scam, if they use it to protect themselves against wiseguys, I beleive there is nothing wrong with that.

The Phantom

[mls]

Simple Jeff - they only offer the 7 1/2 to those valued customers that they are pretty sure will bet the other side at -7 1/2.
Betmaker will not offer the +7 1/2 to anyone they think might actually take it.

You do not really believe you or I are going to be offered +7 1/2 do you?!? Of course not! This line is only available to those that Betmaker is pretty sure will only take the favorite at -7 1/2.

Betmaker can only succeed at this scam because they have customers that trust them to give them a fair line - stupid assumption in Betmaker's case I agree. (But the fact is that most reputable books do not deal double lines - I have yet to hear a SINGLE name other than Betmaker acused of this tactic.)

Of course, maybe it is alright to price gouge your best customers simply because of their misplaced trust in your dealing fair with them.

There will always be con men out there that take advantage of the naive, old, feeble, or anyone whose trust and/or friendship they can gain - and there will always be those that defend any scam that works - but there are those of us that consider a scam that works ONLY because of misplaced trust, or because the con man is a friend, is reprehensible.

Finally, how many of these valued customers of Betmaker do you think would stay with them when they learn Betmaker was taking advantage of their trust by giving them a ripoff line? (I can tell you the 2 people I told about it dropped Betmaker QUICK!)

What other books do this - lets let their customers know so they can make their own decision as to whether to bet there.

[scott]

I have worked for the biggest Books/Bookmakers in Nevada for 30yrs. Ihave been entrusted with putting up my numbers and moving them in four of those instances. In two of them(the biggest action LV had seen up till then) we handled over two billion(with a "b"). I of course could not do this without input from much smarter people than myself. I had world class handicappers on the payroll in addition to some very smart people with me behind the counter. All that background gets us to this fact. THE MOST WEIGHT WAS GIVEN TO WHICH WAY WE THOUGHT THE PUBLIC WOULD BET. Yes we had stats upon stats and access to fairly new info. But when you come up with the "right number", as someone mentioned earlier, you better have a feel for the betting public or you will get burried. And of course if we needed money on a side we would add or subtract a hook or even a point. But we never grabbed a player and forced him to take the worst of it. A player can always pass but the bookmaker must take a wager on either side of a number he puts up. Earlier in this topic "the right number" was mentioned. What the heck is that. A number off T.V. or radio, a number out of the paper or from some service. None of them take bets or bring anything to the table. They sell air. The right number is the number a bookmaker backs with his bankroll. Bet, pass or quit whining. Scotty

[scott]

As an afterthought, when some players make a laydown they think the bookmaker has the wrong number and they swear they have just taken advantage of it. Just a thought. Scotty (this is a great topic guys)

[Jeff]

mls....gotta disagree.

You can rest assured that if a small player were to sign up with Betmaker, and he happened to be sharp (there are plenty of small "sharp" players), he would get the same line that Joe the favorite bettor would get.

Matter of fact I frequently read comments from small players saying how they love Betmaker because they always seem to get a good price on the dogs.

These days, the betting "public" is much smarter than it was 10+ years ago. It's no longer safe to assume that just because a guy is a small player, or recreational player, he automatically loads up on the Cowboys and 49ers every week.

I think Phantom has touched on something as well. It's been said that some books have dealt another line in order to give the bulk of their players fair numbers.

Case in point, during baseball season, it's not uncommon to see a game hammered by steam, maybe going from -120 to -135....those getting the sharp line now must lay -135 if they want that side, while the recreational guy can still probably get -130 or better.

The public line isn't always skewed towards the fav, but rather the hot side, at times.

Lastly, Betmaker is being singled out here, but this practice has been used by more books than not in the past.

You just can't feel sorry for the guy that doesn't put any effort into his wagering, be it a hobby player or someone who attempts to be serious.

Don't forget, a book is in business to make money. If they can increase their bottom line by dealing different numbers, so be it.

It's a practice that no one will ever agree on. Some books believe it works, others say it's too much trouble.....

[scott]

Jeff, If you take +7.5 on a side and later it moves to 9 were you scammed? What about the guy who saw the 7.5 and wanted to lay it but waited. If he lays -9 is he the victim of a scam? Scotty

[Jeff]

Let me follow up by making a point I've made before.....

Many of the guys still out there that DO blindly bet favs and public teams, are Doctors. Lawyers, or otherwise very intelligent people. Intelligent in everything else they do in life, with the exception of wagering on sports.

They don't feel sorry for me when I walk in to the Dentist and pay a fortune for their specialized knowledge and skill......why should I feel sorry for them when they walk into my world?

[pnanda]

I have no problem with Betmaker, they are a business. They do what they need to do to improve their bottom line. If a bettor is dumb enough to bet only favs and not shop around, chances are no matter what line he gets he will lose money. As I speak, there are 3 gas stations within 3 blocks of my house that charge from $1.29 to $1.44 a gallon for 87 octane gasoline. Is that a scam, no. If the public decides to purchase gasoline for $1.44, that is their choice.Supply and demand. Betmaker posts the line for the bettor to see, if he/she likes it they can wager. On the other hand, if they don't like it they can pass or look for a better line. The GP is free to choose where to wager. Like with everything in life, the individual must take responsibility for their choices and that includes where to wager.

[AussieVamp2]

Cons, we will say one thing for the British bookies though, with massive margins on soccer, and minimum trebles stuff - even their rugby etc. is 1.83 either way should not be hard to make money - whereas those catering to US sports with mucher fairer odds, etc., have a bit of a tougher time

what does sportingbet do, out of interest? Be an interesting comparison - although their rugby and tennis odds are still shocking

[STING]

When one goes into the Betmaker site they will see lines and these lines will be the same lines visible to ALL their clients. They do not have time to make post different lines for different clients. The "GUEST" lines are not bettable and therefore not updated as regularly. I'd say these might even be posted way off to encourage people to sign up with Betmaker. Good marketing there if that's the case.

I know the top players (one of whom has some $90,000 in his account and has been winning BIG with his hockey picks that I wish he'd post here) who ALWAYS win won't be kicked out....their betting patterns will be studied and restrictions may be enforced...That's called CONTROL and if your book does not have CONTROL, expect them to be 60 feet under after the Super Bowl...along with your money. Betmaker ain't going anywhere.

Rest assured the bookmaker at Betmaker wants to see the little guy win (completely opposite of what's been said here) and the lines are created with that in mind.

If two different lines are being dealt, the lines are not differing between each of those players in the 85% bracket. What's the point? Again, if you or eye log into our accounts (forget the GUEST line), we will see the same lines. If they ARE dealing double lines it's Joe Blow who is beating them for $25,000 a day that would get the different line if this were the case and I don't think he'd be getting the better end of the stick.

I would imagine ALL books double deal lines and this is why none of them are responding to this thread. Though I find the thread fascinating, singling out Betmaker is a complete joke. People who find themselves being dealt different lines know who they are and will likely find this no matter where they go.

[AussieVamp2]

well, I have just started using betmaker, but just for soccer really - have not looked at anything else except tennis, once - so this will be interesting - can check out the small player angle

However, the soccer odds were the same as the guest odds and those listed on crastinum.com, so not changing those

if someone wants, I can check what pointspreads are on offer