Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Dealing Two Different Lines

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    just trying to make my point again.

    If the "square" player is the player that mostly looses and the "wiseguy" is the player that mostly wins why in the world would the books worry about giving a different line to the "squares"? No reason they are still losing with the regular line why would they try to "beat" them if they already are.

    With this point of view then I guess if they do have double lines they will have the "adjusted" line for the "wiseguy", who is taking all their money away. I think so far this is pretty logic right?

    Ok now, if the "square" player, who doesn't know a lot and can get fooled or scammed easily is not been scammed because they have the "regular" line, no one is taking advantage of them and their trust right?

    If the "wiseguy" who knows what he is doing and cannot be easily scammed or fooled, is getting the "adjusted" line, nobody is getting scammed cause the "wiseguy" knows he could probably get a better line elsewhere or like the adjustment for the other side.

    So what is the problem here? WHy is the "square" player getting scammed if they are the ones that are getting the "regular" line (if there is such a thing).

    The Phantom

    Comment


    • #47
      As a former book manager for some of the elite of Las Vegas(see my post on page one)let me offer this for further thought. A true bookmaker doesnt have to beat anyone. He simply holds the wagers and pays the winners with the losers money and keeps the juice. If he has moved his line well he might have a reasonably balanced book and he will juice out on more days than not. Its the same $20 bill only he holds it for 20 days and the players hold it for 10 days. There is not a bookmaker on the planet that can scam the players on a daily basis. He doesnt have to. Scotty

      Comment


      • #48
        Scott, in your days of working in the Las Vegas Books, has you ever witnessed a different line being quoted to a player than is generally available (on the board)?

        Comment


        • #49
          Big Money; Yes. If we were hopelessly stuck with a huge decision we would offer a hook or nickle or whatever to some of our loyal players to cut our hazzard to where it fit our action(handle). To put bookmaking in the purest form its not bookmaker vs player or player vs bookmaker. Its player vs player and the bookmaker holds their money. He pays the winner with the losers money and "earns" the juice. My favorite saying is kind of simple but "11 is bigger than 10". The oldtimers who have survived just put up the best #s they can and move them according to their action. You cant micro manage players and individual games on a wide scale. To think a bookmaker goes over reams of mystical info is BS. He doesnt have to. If he has an opinion he can put it in his opening # but after that he better move it according to his action and dont play faces or worry what #s the guy down the street is using. Scotty

          Comment


          • #50
            So scott,

            How does that change if the bookmaker can lay off with other bookmakers?

            Comment


            • #51
              This is a great topic, so I thought I'd weight in with my $0.02.

              Say you are making a bet with a friend on the SuperBowl you are taking Tennessee and he's taking St. Louis.

              Now, you know that your buddy's a huge St. Louis fan. Would it be "wrong" of you to try to get him to agree to a line of 7.5 or even 8 points? Of course not! If he's stupid enough to take that line, then too bad. If he doesn't like the line, he can tell you to go piss up a rope.

              If people are stupid and/or lazy enough to let themselves get burned with dual lines, then they won't be betting for too long anyway.

              We all should get used to it because this is the wave of the future. Even the smaller operations now have good computers and databases. With that kind of information at hand, there won't be too many operations that won't be "profiling" their clients very soon. It only makes good business sense.

              Maybe we won't see drastic line moves, but don't be surprised if (very soon) you start seeing occasional curious line movements on games. Probably as soon as the next baseball season.

              For instance, try betting big favorites two or three nights in a row in baseball this upcoming season, and I'll bet that pretty soon you'll see your own lines shaded slightly in that direction. Databases can be trained to pick up virtually any kind of betting pattern, and they will adjust the lines accordingly. Perhaps only five cents on the occasional game, but over the long haul, that can make a big difference to a book's bottom line.

              But as many people have mentioned, this is not a bad thing for a diligent researcher. In fact, it might be a good thing. Think about it: A mere coincidence could result on your betting on the favorites several times in a row. And the pleasant result of that coincidence might be that you are treated to some better lines on underdogs in the future.

              p.s. - Yes, even the UK sportsbooks will eventually find ways to "profile" their regulars too.

              Comment


              • #52
                AussieVamp2, Our customers were our layoff. Instead of laying the juice we moved our line to attract money on the other side. Of course the downside was the occasional middle but to me middle is not a bad word. I cant think of a single player who middled us and kept the money and quit playing. It works just the opposit. We always had a reputation for moving numbers according to our action and not mindlessly following the store down the street(or anywhere else). Players will shop at a store like ours first because he knows he might catch a strange #.It grows on itself. The volume just keeps going up and volume overcomes all. But again you must move #s according to your action and dont be concerned with the other guys menu. Scotty(P.S. The Austrailian model is the leader in the new World Wide Market but I cant add to there volume because they reject me for living in the USA. That will change someday).

                Comment


                • #53
                  scott, it is not the Australian model that rejects you, it is the US

                  i.e. those companies with US ownership - Megasports and Centrebet, won't let you

                  those that don't - i.e. Canbet, DAS, Sportodds, etc., etc.., who could care less about stupid US laws would be more than happy to try and take your money, I would suspect Maybe not so happy if they know who you are, but hey

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    As Jeff of Bettorsworld noted, other books have double dealt lines in the past - although I believe almost all have now stopped (after, as several posters noted, why try on tack on an extra 1/2 point on the small favorites bettor, who are losing in the long run anyway; right or wrong, if the practice is discovered, they are going to lose alot of customers.)

                    I have compared lines for the past 2 days at Betmaker and it appears they have decided to deal one line from now on. If so, this is a good business decision, particularly if they are planning to hit the European market (where a higher sense of fair play in bookies is expected since Americans mostly started with mafia connected bookies and Europeans started with more ethical licensed bookies).

                    The votes seemed split as to whether double dealing lines was right or wrong. But from a books perspective, with say a couple million bettors worldwide, a book stands to lose ALOT of customers if they double deal and it is discovered.

                    Perhaps Betmaker figured out who I was and switched my account back to the public lines. But, I am more inclined to believe they made a very intelligent decision - double dealing lines does not generate sufficient extra juice to offset alienating half the betting public.

                    I believe Betmaker, like many books before it, has simply decided it is against their best interests to double deal lines.

                    If you doubt the power of forums like this one, this is a good example.

                    If I, or any of you, discover a book double dealing lines here is the place come. Verifying is easy - if someone says +18 1/2 is available at XYZ book and you immediately check and your line is 18 be suspicious. If the "guest" lines also show 18 1/2 then open an alias account with a yahoo.com E-mail address and compare your lines again. If your new alias account line is also 18 1/2 ... busted!

                    With regard to Betmaker, by all accounts they are a solid outfit on the move up - stopping double dealing lines is simply an example of their determination to grow and succeed.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      still look the same to me, mls

                      and I think we are at opposite extremes of the punting market

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        AussieVamp2,I pose no threat to anyone who fades my action. My strength is dealing a line and splitting the public. As far as picking winners for my pocket I dont have a clue. Im one of the most informed losers around. Scotty

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          A better analogy might be buying in bulk. You do pay more per volume for the 8 ounce individual size ( small player ) than the 10 gallon drum ( whales/sharps ). One difference is that the grocery store doesn't often "hide" the drums in back for only certain customers. Some do, but the "honest" ones let YOU choose. They do "tempt" you by putting the stinky cheese next to the tiny veggies and the beer near the diapers. Some call this marketing, others might call it cheating! It depends on how badly you want to save 30 cents by driving to the next store.

                          A salesman I know had 10 different prices for the same case of food. Depending on the buying patterns, # of cases bought, tolerance to prices, etc. he would deal each customer the highest of the 10 he could get away with. MOST customers had no idea this was happening/possible. Those that found out kicked his ass out and were pissed ( competitors would squeal even though many did the same thing to their customers ). I deplore the tactic, but he made his living off of charging what he could get away with. This is probably a common tactic in sales, so it doesn't surprise me in bookmaking.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            WWTS does it.

                            Which by the way makes them a total joke. Here is a place that makes a claim to be BIG TIME by being on the Don Best screen. Then most of the time you call them they give you different lines. So what's the point of being on the screen exactly?

                            I agree with Scott with regards to places that aren't on the Don Best feed.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Scott, I don't think you understood my question. You describe how you would move the number to attract action for balancing you books, whenever a lopsided situation existed.

                              What I wanted to know is whether you would offer one number to one set of customers, and another line to another set, depending on your knowledge of their betting tendencies.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                BigMoney, Above all its unethical, and besides my players were to smart. They would love the chance to take advantage and take the other side. Scotty

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X