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  • #31
    DOT MIX

    Sorry I didn't know I was shouting by using caps.

    I stated that I wouldn't cancel any play I took on a bad line. I would pay the wager then look at the type of player the customer was. If he had a bunch on lines & knew he was betting a really bad number I would return the monies in his account and refuse to do any further business with him. My perogative? Yes.

    The same way you pick and choose which books to play with, the book can deciede which customers he wants to keep.

    Without trying to make this sound derogatory toward some of the players on this forum a wise guy or pro would never try a move on a bad number. An off number yes, but not a bad one.

    Yes the book has a responsibility to put up the right numbers. But this is not a 6pm-8pm business anymore. In some places its 24/7 or a 13-16 hour day. Can't work them all alone. Not saying I don't take responsibility for my workers mistakes but nobody watches my money as well as I do.

    These are my opinions. didn't mean to imply you personally or Krackman were thieves.I'm sorry to say I don't cancel any plays unless the customer calls back within a few minutes. I don't cheat customers and expect the same treatment in return. I wish I had a buck for everytime a customer said to me give me so an so minus and I said they are plus. Knowing he didn't have a clue.

    THE DEVIL




    Comment


    • #32
      I see nothing wrong in betting a bad line, everybody wants to take advantage of anyone else (that is the kind of society we are). I know some books that will give you a bonus if let them know of a bad line. I think that is a good way to go. I bet my wife has bought stuff at the store at a wrong price but I bet that if she was told the price was wrong right after she bought it, she would pay the difference or give it back, she will not make a big thing about it.

      If you try to get a bad line, and get away with it good for you but if you get caught, tough better luck next time.

      As to what is a bad line, in my personal opinion if a line is -240 and you get +240, only an idiot would say "why is that a bad line". If a line is 2 even 3 point difference, I will not call it a bad line, maybe they have a heavy side and have moved it but 5 or more points anybody that has placed a bet and has some knowledge about gambling knows that is a bad line.

      I see nothing wrong with a book cancelling your bet as long as you can still place the bet in the game if you want to with the correct line.

      As to a player making a mistake, at least I put myself in the BM shoes. Think of how many people are trying to get your money, some trying to steal every penny they can. How does a BM know the person on the other side of the phone or computer did make a real mistake. The first thing they think is that he probably got some info on the game and wants to cancell the game.


      I really don't see a BM making a player responsible for betting a bad line, but I also don't see at least me, blaming a BM for cancelling a bad line.

      As a final note, I have several friends that bet and I have to say some are not very smart. I had a friend once that bet on a bad line, he was betting the underdog, the correct line was +4.5 but the line was wrong and he bet the underdog at -4.5 (extremly stupid I know, but he was just starting to gamble) anyways when the book noticed the mistake I bet they told all the guys that had taken the favorite at +4.5 that the bets were cancelled but they also told my friend that his bet was cancelled. I think they were very honest. When they cancell the bets, they cancell all of them, including the ones in their favor.

      Good Luck to all
      The Phantom

      Comment


      • #33
        Guys, some of us are players, some of us work for sportsbooks. But overall, we should establish a certain code of ethics that prevails regardless of the situation...

        Without calling names (and touting a certain operation), I tried to place a bet. I thought the line was off, so I actually saw value (fair enough).

        I told them about it, that I wanted to bet the side, but that I thought that the line was wrong. I asked them to double-check, and they came back to me saying that the line is as good as ever.

        So I whacked the line hard... hey, there is no reason in the world why I shouldn't! If you call and ask and they confirm that all is well then hit it for all it's worth...

        Later on I called and they told me that the line was off. I told them to cancel the bet if that was the case, but they told me that it was THEIR fault and that they would never cancel a bet on me like that. They admitted that it was their fault, and that I should keep the bet.

        In the end I called the bet off, simply because I had a lot of respect for those guys, as IMO they are the best in the business. I really had to beg them to call it off, as all the time they kept telling me that I should keep it.

        they are truly some of the best, and to prevent myself from being called a shill I will keep the name to myself. All I can say is that the book is listed on the left...

        Comment


        • #34
          Another key point in this issue,

          its the rules, its their rules.

          Whether you like it or not, they tell you the rules BEFORE you play the game.

          If you don't like this rule, fine. Go find someone else that will have rule saying that,

          "We will never cancell an accepted bet no matter its caused by a bad line or a human error."

          Tell me which book out there that has this rule in their book and they will pay you when you win.

          So stop the bulls, if you want to get paid and want to play a fair game, play with the rules.

          If you don't like the rules and think the game is not fair, then don't play it until you can change it.

          You think you are really a wiseguy that just found a bad line and to make some quick and easy money?

          Let me tell you something more, there are books out there will post those bad lines "intentionally" sometimes.

          Because they are protected by such rule, posting those "bad lines" is a much better marketing strategy than any kind of advertising & bonus.

          Why? Because there are always some fools believe they just found a gold mine and rush there to open a new account or to make a deposit again.

          That often happens on some new books.

          Do you really believe the BMs over there are really that careless and stupid to hang a bad line out so often?

          Now thats nasty.

          Comment


          • #35
            so here's a question

            one place has a hockey moneyline

            one is -380

            one is -300

            is the -300 a bad line and you should feel sorry for the bookie and not take it?

            A reversed moneyline where it was +300 not -300 is an obvious mistake, but a different pointspread of a couple of points should happen some of time time, as will different moneylines.... so why shouldn't you bet these?

            Obvious reversals, no, but these - why not?

            Comment


            • #36
              AYCE I'm sorry but that last thing you sayed it's just plain stupid. You actually think they do it on purpose? Like a lot of people that have posted this thread, everytime they get a bet cancelled they give the book a bad time. I can just imagine a book going through all the cancelling bets and getting screamed at for a couple of guys that deposited $50 (no big player is that stupid). WOW they made their profit already, PLEASE!!!! And once they get their bets cancelled they get so pissed that they ask for their money back and bye bye those 2 guys and their 50 bucks. You actually think a book needs to do that to get customers. I beleive that would be one of the worst nightmares for a BM, some clients might even leave. No I'm sorry but I just don;t see that happening. Although to see if I have to stuff my words where the sun don't shine, can a BM give his opinion here please

              The Phantom

              Comment


              • #37
                Don't be so naive, Phantom.

                You thought a guy rushed there to bet on those bad lines and got cancelled will be "pissed off" and they will shout it loud as "I got screwed"?

                Come on, they know exactly what they are doing, just like Krackman.

                You maybe right, some of them will withdraw and say goodbye in couple days. But hey, even 10% of the customers/money will stay isn't really bad at all.

                At worst, they still have some new accounts anyway.

                Like I said earlier, this happened mostly in some new books as they desperately need some new customers. With nothing to loose, they will try everything they can to get some potential customers.

                Like no books out there will have rules saying that they will never cancell a confirmed bet, no books out there will be stupid enough to admit that they will do this intentionally but it did exist, believe it or not.

                Comment


                • #38
                  AV, you're right. A reversal is an evident mistake, and it's only those types of mistakes that should warrant bets being called off.

                  If they simply get it wrong because they "get it wrong" (if you know what I mean...), then they should pay the price.

                  Anyway, the decent sportsbooks will only cancel bets in exactly this situation - line reversal. If they have to move the line by 80-cents because of their own fault, they will nontheless honor the line. And that's how it should be...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    ACYE,
                    How can you say for certain that no books will cancel a bet taken? For us it's a customer service thing. We have a lot clients who only play with us. The only line they get is from us or maybe the newspaper. If you have a player who loses 40-50K per year with you playing 1k per game, and you post a bad line and he plays it.
                    1.Maybe he doesn't want you calling his house or work, or leaving messages on his machine.
                    2.If you do cancel it and he gets pissed off and feels cheated, why would you take a chance of losing this client for one bet.
                    3. What a great PR move by your book to tell that player, our mistake, but we took your bet and we'll honor that bet.

                    That's the way to build lasting relationships with clients.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      In general, those "bad lines" or "obvious errors" will and SHOULD only happened at American sports.

                      Especially the big 4.

                      Why?

                      Because we have Don Best, and most books out there are just copy the lines from one or two big boys out there. So, in other words, on spread betting, anything higher than 3 to 4 pts can consider as obvious errors and any difference on moneylines bigger than 50/60 cents (under -/+200) can also consider as obvious errors.

                      Cause no way in hell anyone would like to hang out a line like that to get killed (resulting one-sided action).

                      But other than the American big 4, especially in the moneyline betting for international sports, no books can have legit reason to convince me what kind of line actually is a bad line.

                      Why?

                      Because there is NOT a Don Best.

                      Most people will make their own lines, or in some cases, they will copy their lines from different books out there and there is not a standard on the lines.

                      Unless it will be a HUGE difference existing and it will be very obvious, most of the time the books should just swallow the bets and try to be smarter next time.

                      Like last year, I informed a book in this forum about a bet on the Oscar.

                      They have one actress (turn out to be the winner) at -120 while most of the places have her at -350 to -400, some even had her at -500.

                      I warned them but hey, they challenged me back and said it was a good line (although they did changed the line to -160 the next morning), fine, you know what happened later...

                      So, as an experienced bettor, you should know what should be a "right line" and what should be a "bad line" in the American big 4, stop whimming about it and pretend to be so innocent.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I have a question.

                        Suppose I don't agree with a book decision concerning one of my bets. I think I won and the book believes I lost.

                        Suppose the situation is not an obvious one. For instance some particular situation is not included in the book's rules.

                        Does there exist any legal procedure to resolve such a conflict?

                        While working in Ukraine, we had a lot of cases when bettors threatened to take us to the court. Eventually they never did.

                        I wonder if it is at all possible.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Intheknow,

                          My challenge still stands.

                          If you can prove to me that your book or any other books out there will have written rule like the follows,

                          "We will never cancell a bet after confirmation even its resulted from bad lines or human errors."

                          I will openly appologize to you in here.

                          I understand that a bookie coming here to tell everybody that "we will never cancell your bets, its our responsibilty, bahbahbah" is a good PR move, but unless you will have written rules about it, it just your "policy of normal pratices" and it will only create a grey area but not much protection to your customers.

                          I don't believe any book out there will dump enough have this rule against themselves.

                          Well, you are a phone-based book. I can understand that you will have less bad line and human errors than those online books, but how about if,

                          one of your clerks working with your customers to cheat your money (human errors), will you still honor those bets?

                          What if your clerk read a line of Spurs +16 against the Clippers (which obviously should be -16) to your customer, she just wrongly read the minus as plus (I don't believe it will never be happened) and you customer hit you hard. Will you still honor his bet and just punish your employee? Is he still a good customer of yours?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            This is an interesting thread, and it reminds me of the "Dealing Two Lines" one. What we have is all the players on one side, and all the bookmakers on the other, in general.

                            I think the majority of both sides would agree that a bet on a line that is CLEARLY a mistake is (a) a questionable action or worse by the player, and (b)OK to cancel by the book, assuming they notify the player before the game goes off.

                            But the real issue is what constitutes a CLEAR mistake. There seems to be a lack of conscience on the part of some books, canceling wagers that were previously confirmed, because the line wasn't quite right. I'm talking about less than 2 points on a side, or less than 40 cents on a moneyline, for sports that appear on the Don Best Feed. This is unfair to the player, who may have established a middle, only to have one side cancelled. It is not fair because the player is not allowed to cancel a bet in case he makes a mistake. It only goes one way.

                            Books that cancel previously confirmed wagers because of small odds errors on their part should be exposed as scams, not to be trusted once their word is given.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              having worked on the other side of the counter - you have punters (bettors) that fall into various categories.

                              1. Recreational punter that really has no clue what they are doing other than backing their fav team.

                              2. The shrewd yet honest guy who will only take the best lines/prices out there, but is too honest to take advantage of blatant errors.

                              3. The opportunist who'll try to rip you off once, be warned, and never try it again.

                              4. The bottom-scavenging scum who will only try to rip you off time and time again.

                              Books in the UK and Australia have to go through a very rigorous licensing process, so that they can offer their services and play fair to the customer. Customers don't need anything besides money.

                              Do unto others as they would have do unto you. Simple as that.

                              Nearly always we'd honour the bet when our fault IF the customer played it like a normal bet. If it was someone who emptied their entire acct on a game that was already over for example, well you don't need to be Einstein to figure that one out.

                              Which category do you fit into??

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                ACYE,

                                Those are very good instances,
                                1. A clerk can read a bad line to a player, but when she enters the wager in the computer it will come up with the correct line and she cannot change the line enough to give the wrong side. Therefore that "bad" line cannot taken as a play read back and confirmed.

                                Clerks and players are constantly being monitored on the tape and on the computer system to insure clerks are not working with players against the book.

                                Why should a book have to put everything in does in writing for players to believe it. Honoring wagers taken is basic. Do you want a two page legal paragraph stating that you will be paid if you win?

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