The end of an era: Is Scalping Gone Forever?

[scott]

Scott L...Some players have so much money its unreal. For some they just want action, on anything. Ive had players that just wanted to use their money. They couldnt show it. Players that would bet every game on the board for as much as I could use if I gave them a hook on every game. But they had to bet every game. No El Paso's. Ive had players who just bet on the foots & would leave mabey 6 figures in their phone accounts over the off season, not interested in mabey buying a certificate or something. Of course with the reporting requirements in the States nowdays that is almost over. I wonder what the guy that played us, 250-300 a day, because it was something his son & himself enjoyed together. Oh well. The ironic thing Scott is the guy with the $300,000 on the BB game is probably following some flea who doesnt have a double saw to bet on his own...Scotty

[Scott Landau]

Scotty, Appreciate the response, along with all the other entertaining and informative stories you provide...Pretty funny that many of the rest of us bust our 'nads to find 3 solid games to invest 3 bucks on, only to sweat bullets for the 6 hours they're in progress!

[REALITY]

Originally posted by REALITY:

SCOTTY,

I WAS JUST WONDERING HOW CLOSE I WAS IN MY ASSESSMENT OF THE GREAT JOB YOU DID AT THE STARDUST.

THE POST IS ON PAGE 2 OF THIS THREAD AT 10:04 P.M.

I TRIED TO POST WITH THE QUOTE BUT FOR SOME REASON IT DIDN'T INCLUDE IT.

THANK YOU.

REALITY



[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 07-27-2000).]

[reno]

Scalping is certainly not gone forever. But, Boomer's scalping career may be. Boomer just bought a bikini-bar in Cypress, California.

Hell, I told the guy to keep scalping for a couple of more years, and then he'd have been a sure-fire first-ballot offshore sportsbetting Hall-of-Famer. Now, because of his early retirement, he is not even a lock to get elected.

[scott]

Reality...Your post on page two was right on regarding the Old Dust. The opening #s i.e. the lottery were more than token bets for the most part. The exception was the Sunday night football openers. We cut those down...Scotty

[scott]

Doggie...Sorry but it was you who was right on about the Old Stardust. In the above I got my mords wixed. I quit this sight for awhile. After about 100 posts on the same bs I gave up. I tried to jump back in where I left off but as usual Im confused(thats also why Im broke). As you know Doggie, you were there, we opened up to the world with our own numbers. No ironing them out. Step up and bet. The action was so fast we bypassed the computers. They would slow us down. We charted by hand and changed the #s no matter what players were at the windows or on the phones. On a basketball Saturday we would make 700-800 changes. No fantom moves. All money!! It was a square/wiseguy/sharp/scalper/middler/bookmakers paradise. People cant grasp the idea of the same store being helpfull to both sides and feeding off each other.
You were deadnuts right Doggie. We put our opinion in the opening # then simply moved on action not faces. Its really quite simple. I cant imagine trying to handicap players like I was picking cherries. "This ones good this ones bad". Im glad Im out of it. It must have passed me by (but I think pure bookmaking will still work). You are right Doggie. Id do it the same way again...Scotty

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by REALITY:
[B] SCOTTY,
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT AN OFF-SHORE BOOK TODAY HAS TO MAKE A DECISION.

WITH THE EXTREMELY HIGH COST OF DOING BUSINESS OFF-SHORE,AND THE HIGH COST OF MARKETING POST UP PLAYERS,HE MUST DECIDE TO KEEP HIS BUSINESS SQUARE AND NOT ALLOW NOT ONLY HIMSELF BUT HIS CUSTOMERS TO BE POACHED BY WISEGUY ACTION OR HE MUST DECIDE I'M GOING TO WRITE IT ALL.

IN YOUR ANALYSIS OF WHAT YOU DID IN THE STARDUST YOU HAD NO CHOICE TO DO IT ANY OTHER WAY.

TO YOU THE SCALPERS, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY THE MIDDLERS ARE THE REASON YOU WERE ABLE TO SUSTAIN SO MANY CONSECUTIVE WINNING MONTHS.

THE PHILOSOPHY AND STRATEGY YOU USED IS THE BLUEPRINT FOR ANY LARGE CLEARING HOUSE SUCH AS OLYMPIC,GRANDE,AND C.R.I.S.

BEFORE THERE WAS A C.R.I.S.THERE WAS THE OFFICE THAT WAS THE CLEARING HOUSE FOR EVERY WISEGUY IN THE COUNTRY.

THERE WASN'T A RECREATIONAL PLAYER IN THE HOUSE.

IT IS HERE WHERE I LEARNED THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF THE BUSINESS.

IF I HAVE ABSORBED THE HIGH COST OF MARKETING OFF-SHORE PLAYERS I WILL NOT HAVE AN ORIGINATOR OR MOVER IN THE HOUSE.

WHY?

THEY ONLY PLAY ME WHEN THEY CAN FILL THEIR ORDERS.

WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO DEAL AN INFLATED NUMBER TO MY REGULAR PLAYER WHO GIVES ME ALL HIS BUSINESS?

SO WHEN NUMBERS LAND THE WISGUYS GET PAID AND THE EVERYDAY PLAYER WHOSE WORK PAYS THE BILLS EITHER PUSHES OR LOSES?

THAT IS JUST A BAD BUSINESS DECISION.

IN REGARDS TO SCALPERS,THE SAME RULE APPLIES.

I'M NOT GOING TO LET A PRO WHO DOES NOTHING BUT SCALP MY NUMBER PLAY ME.

WHY?

BECAUSE HE RISKS NOTHING AND JUST CREATES ADDITIONAL EXPENSE TO SERVICE HIS WORK.

MORE IMPORTANTLY,HE WILL MOST LIKELY GET TO THE NUMBER FASTER THAN MY EVERYDAY PLAYER WHO I WANT TO SEE SCALP THE NUMBER,THUS ELIMINATING THE REGULAR PLAYER FROM COMPLETING THE SCALP.

I WANT MY EVERYDAY PLAYER TO SCALP ME LIKE SPRINGSTEEN TICKETS AT THE GARDEN BECAUSE HE DESERVES THIS CONSIDERATION.

THAT IS MY WAY OFF SAYING THANK YOU FOR YOUR BUSINESS.

WHEN I ANALYZE CUSTOMER BASES I HAVE SEEN JUST 10 TO 20 PLAYERS WHO ARE ORIGINATORS , MOVERS ,OR SCALPERS TAKE ANYWHERE FROM 20 TO 40% OFF THE BOTTOM LINE ANNUALLY.

AND I'M SPEAKING ABOUT IN HOUSES WHERE THERE ARE IN EXCESS OF 5,000 ACTIVE PLAYERS.

WHY WOULD ANY BUSINESS MAN LET ALONE BOOKMAKER ALLOW HIMSELF TO BE USED LIKE THIS?

ALL THIS POSTURING BY SCALPERS AND WANNABE BOOKMAKERS IS JUST PLAIN INSULTING NOT JUST TO THE BUSINESS OF BOOKMAKING BUT TO THE BUSINESS OF BUSINESS ITSELF.

IN A HOUSE LIKE C.R.I.S.,GRANDE AND OLYMPIC IT IS IMPERATIVE TO WRITE IT ALL IN THE HOPES OF OVERCOMING DECISIONS,THE EXPOSURE OF LINE MOVEMENT DUE TO POSTING LINES FIRST,AND THE WISEGUY ACTION WHICH YOU KNOW IS EXTREMELY TOUGH TO BEAT.

IT IS THIS CONSCIENCE DECISION THAT MAKES THESE PLACES THE CLEARING HOUSES THEY ARE.

JUST BECAUSE IT IS DONE THERE DOSEN'T MEAN IT IS THE CORRECT PHILOSOPHY FOR EVERYONE.

QUITE THE CONTRARY.

WHEN IN ROME DO AS THE ROMANS DO.

IF YOU HAVE A HOUSE FULL OF WISEGUYS IT IS IMPERATIVE TO WRITE AS MUCH ACTION AS YOU CAN TO GIVE YOURSELF A CHANCE TO WIN.

IF YOU HAVE A HOUSE FULL OF POST UP PLAYERS IT IS AN ABSOLUTELY BAD DECISION TO LET ORIGINATORS,MOVERS,OR PEOPLE WHO JUST PLAY YOU WHEN THEY CAN SCALP YOU TO RAPE YOUR BOTTOM LINE.

REALITY


SCOTTY,

COULD YOU GIVE ME YOUR OPINION OF THIS POST.

I'D BE INTERESTED ON YOUR TAKE ON MY COMMENTS HERE.

THANK YOU.

REALITY

[reno]

REALITY, if you cut out all the wiseguys, who is going to buy-back games? If your so-called "regular players" or squares buy back games, then, by definition and actions, they are, in fact, wiseguys. Someone who follows your "slash-and-burn" philosophy will get mainly one-way action and end up just gambling. Following your strategy last baseball season would have been a disaster because public as well as syndicate moves won.

[REALITY]

RENO,

MY CHALLENGE TO YOU STILL STANDS.

WHAT I DID A FEW YEARS BACK IN TERMS OF NET WIN AND WIN% IS PROBABLY AMONG THE FINEST BACK TO BACK SEASONS EVER DONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE OFFSHORE BUSINESS.

FOR THE ABSOLUTE LAST TIME,THE ONLY PLAYERS WHO I CONSIDERED WISEGUYS ARE THE PLAYERS WHO PLAYED ME A GAME AND 30-60 SECONDS LATER,THE SCREEN WENT BLACK.

THESE ARE THE ONLY WISEGUYS.

THEY ARE THE ORIGINATORS OR MOVERS FOR THE ORIGINATORS.

SCALPERS ARE NOT WISEGUYS.

SCALPERS ARE,AND I DON'T MEAN THIS DISRESPECTFULLY,SCAVENGERS.

THEY WANT TO EAT BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR THEIR FOOD.

NOT EVEN THE COST OF THE PHONE CALL TO ORDER IT, WHICH IS TOLL FREE.

EVERYDAY PLAYERS WHO SCALP ARE JUST THAT.

SCALPERS WHO DO NOTHING BUT SCALP ARE SCAVENGERS IN A PUBLIC HOUSE WHO SERVE ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE BUT TO ERODE THE BOTTOM LINE.

THESE BIG OFF-SHORES THAT ARE ON SOUND FINANCIAL FOOTING AND CAN ABSORB HOLDING A LITTLE EXTRA ON CERTAIN GAMES WILL MOST LIKELY SPLIT THESE GAMES OUT AND EARN A LITTLE EXTRA.

THEY DON'T NEED PRO SCALPERS TO HELP THEM OUT.

IN A BIG CLEARING HOUSE WHERE YOU ARE WRITING IT ALL AND WORKING ON A SMALLER PROFIT MARGIN, PRO SCALPERS ARE JUST A PART OF THE GAME BECAUSE ANY BET, EVEN A SCALP IS VOLUME AND VOLUME IS NECESSARY TO FUEL THIS TYPE OF OPERATION.

I SENSE FROM YOUR POSTS YOU ARE REASONABLY INTELLIGENT.

I BELIEVE YOU ARE JUST POSTURING BECAUSE YOU ARE A SCALPER AND THIS PHILOSOPHY IS NOT CONDUCIVE TO YOUR LIVELYHOOD.

I ALSO BELIEVE YOU KNOW VERY WELL THAT MY TWO PHILOSOPHIES MAKE PERFECT SENSE DEPENDING ON WHICH TYPE OF HOUSE YOU HAVE.

IF YOU WERE PUTTING UP YOUR MONEY AND HAD A HOUSE FULL OF PUBLIC PLAYERS WHICH COST YOU A BUNDLE TO MARKET WOULD YOU ALLOW WISEGUYS AS I DEFINE THEM AND PRO SCALPERS TO EAT AWAY AT YOUR BOTTOM LINE?

SPARE ME THE PAT RESPONSE I WOULD WELCOME THEM WITH OPEN ARMS AND USE THEIR PLAYS TO GET ON THEIR SIDES.

B.W.LAYS -5.5 ON A COLLEGE FOOTBALL GAME,THE WORLD IMMEDIATELY GOES TO 6.5.

IF YOU WANT TO USE THIS PHILOSOPHY YOU HAVE TO GO TO 7 TO GET ON THE SIDE.

THE GAME LANDS 6 OR 7,HOW SMART ARE YOU NOW?

REALITY

[sportsbank]

Reality,
Check your email.

Sportsbank.

[Ronbets]

REALITY,

This site is for "smartening up" players not BMs. The parasitic scalpers just cringe when you make glaring factual statements pertaining to their game. "Scalpers are scavengers that dont want to pay for their food. Not even the cost of a toll free call." Classic line!

In Public joints when squares die(go broke) you call an undertaker not a scalper. Ya know, natural causes.

Please in the future, stop educating the "New Wave" BMs. You're antagonizing the scalpers.

[REALITY]

Originally posted by Ronbets:
REALITY,

This site is for "smartening up" players not BMs. The parasitic scalpers just cringe when you make glaring factual statements pertaining to their game. "Scalpers are scavengers that dont want to pay for their food. Not even the cost of a toll free call." Classic line!

In Public joints when squares die(go broke) you call an undertaker not a scalper. Ya know, natural causes.

Please in the future, stop educating the "New Wave" BMs. You're antagonizing the scalpers.

RONBETS,

SPOKEN LIKE A MAN WHO HAS WALKED THE WALK...

REGARDS,

REALITY

[SLAM DUNK]

Reality, question. What if Wayne Root does hit 74% this season, and has many, many clients. DOES THAT MAKE HIM AN ORIGINATOR?

[REALITY]

Originally posted by SLAM DUNK:
Reality, question. What if Wayne Root does hit 74% this season, and has many, many clients. DOES THAT MAKE HIM AN ORIGINATOR?

AN ORIGINATOR IS A PROFESSIONAL PLAYER THAT BACKS HIS PLAYS WITH CASH AND HAS THE ABILITY TO WIPE OUT THE MARKET ON A GAME HE LIKES IN 60 SECONDS OR LESS...

EVEN IF IT WERE POSSIBLE FOR A TOUT TO HIT 74% IT COULD NEVER DO THE DAMAGE A TRUE ORIGINATOR CAN BECAUSE THE TOUT'S FOLLOWERS WOULD NOT ALL BE BETTING AT THE SAME NUMBER AS A TRUE ORIGINATOR WOULD.

AS THE PUBLIC PLAYS THE TOUT'S GAME THE NUMBER MOVES AND WHEN IT LANDS SOME OF THE TOUT'S FOLLOWERS WILL WIN, SOME WILL PUSH AND SOME WILL LOSE.

WHEN A TRUE ORIGINATOR PLAYS HE GETS THE BEST OF THE NUMBER AND CONSEQUENTLY THE BEST POSSIBLE RESULT FOR HIS POCKET...

REALITY



[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 07-31-2000).]

[intheknow]

Thank you so much for putting so well what I couldn't. I have written about this on numerous threads and have been badmouthed and told I'm not a real BM.