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Kelly - Part 4

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  • Kelly - Part 4

    When your wife is making you rip out the basement it doesn't leave a lot of time for writing.

    The story to date - if you know your P's and Q's, the Kelly aproach tells you to bet a fraction F of your bankroll equal to

    F = ( B * P - Q ) / B

    to maximize your return. This assumes you are betting one game at a time. What if you want to bet 2, 3, 4... games simultaneously.

    Dr. Thorp makes a stab at this in his paper posted at

    //www.bjmath.com/bjmath/thorp/paper.htm

    He looks at the special case where you are betting two games at once and the games are going off at even money, i.e. B = 1. He shows that if you have two games to wager on, both with identical values of P and Q then the optimal value of F is

    F1 / ( 1 + F1 ^ 2 )

    where F1 is the optimal value if you are betting on one game only.

    For example, if P = 0.55, Q = 0.45 and B = 1 then the optimum fraction to wager for one game is

    F1 = ( 0.55 - 0.45 ) = 0.10

    If you have two games you would wager the following fraction on each of the two games

    F = 0.10 / ( 1 + 0.10 ^ 2 ) = 0.099

    The difference is not very large.

    Dr. Thorp does not give a solution for the 2 game case where B is not equal to 1. Neither does he look at the general case of more than 2 games. I suspect that these betting situations are algebraically intractable. They can be solved numerically however by any interested party like me who has access to a computer.

    Following are the results for betting 1, 2, 3, 4... 10 games simultaneously when the values of P, Q and B are 0.50, 0.50 and 1.2 respectively.

    #games F
    ---------
    1 0.0833
    2 0.0827
    3 0.0820
    4 0.0813
    5 0.0806
    6 0.0799
    7 0.0792
    8 0.0784
    9 0.0776
    10 0.0768

    Note that F drops slowly as more and more games are bet. When you approach the number of games where you would be betting your whole bankroll the F value comes closer and closer to BANKROLL / #games but never quite gets there.

    The program I wrote to build the above table was written in Visual FoxPro and runs into problems with exponent underflow as #games increases in value. Also roundoff problems are worrisome. You'll perhaps understand why when you see the formula that you have to optimize. It'll be in the next installment. Before then I'll also rewrite the program using Mathematica. Mathematica gives you the correct answer to any desired degree of accuracy.

  • #2
    Interesting - can you throw in 20,30,40,50,100 games or points like that in the next one?

    Thanks

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    • #3
      The problem of betting in large numbers of independent games has been solved by Dr Peter Griffin, another blackjack author. The conclusions that he made were that as you increase the number of bets, the reduction of bet size for each bet is relatively small. For example, if you bet 1000 games simultaneously with an advantage, the sum of the Kelly bets may be greater than your entire bankroll. This solution only holds if you can borrow money with no interest, which for most people does not hold in the real world.
      For those of us with access to finite resources, the optimal bet pattern for this situation is to bet bankroll/#bets. Remember this is for large numbers of bets.
      The reason for this apparently aggressive strategy is that it is very unlikely that you would lose such a large number of independant bets to destroy your bankroll.
      Things are of course different in real life, we may be restricted in our bets in other ways; sportbook limits, cash on hand, etc. For these situations with many constraints, or for bets with multiple outcomes it is easiest to solve numerically, as the problems become exceedingly complex.
      If anyone is interested, I can post how to use numerical Kelly methods using a simple spreadsheet for related and multiple bets, but I think wintermute will be posting it in his next installment.

      Cheers,
      Fatui

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      • #4
        Fatui, thanks

        are you talking large number in the pure mathematical sense?

        I would definitely like to see it if 'mute doesn't have such a thing.

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        • #5
          One of the Kelly prnciples I was made aware of was...determine the % of edge you have and bet that amount of your bankroll. I was working with a partner who told me this and he always figured out the %. He wouldn't share that with me. He was usually putting this into play on props, but he used it on halftime bets also.

          I would find this useful except I wouldn't know how to go about finding the % of edge I have. I love betting props and there are some that it would appear I am stealing on so this formula would be valuable. Can anyone help me with this?

          Comment


          • #6
            Aussie Vamp, the "large number" of bets I was referring to depends on several things, which is why I tried to keep it general. It depends on the odds that you are getting and also on the advantage of each bet. It varies, I don't have the actual data on me at the moment but I was trying to make the point that it may be correct mathematically in certain situations to bet more money than you actually have.


            noholdsbarred, the hardest part of using Kelly methods is working out how much advantage you have. Once you have the advantage and the odds you can work out the bet size. Your friend probably has some model for the bets that he places, one which estimates an advantage for each bet. If you don't know how he has done this then you don't even know which bets are even at an advantage. Kelly betting is simply a way of betting your money, it does not tell you what is a good bet, and it cannot make negative expectation bets into winners. Of course no betting system can do this.

            Cheers,
            Fatui

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks Fatui!
              Let's go more into detail...like I said I love to bet props I'm going back a few years but this is the first one that jumped into my mind.
              A casino had this prop on the '94 NCAA final

              Will Corlis Williamson ATTEMPT a three pointer. I looked up the stats and the kid had not attempted one all season. The price was -300 no. Well this is a good example of my problem. I think you would agree there is an edge on the no, but again how does a player figure that. That is one thing I have trouble with. In my mind it is all math and I could just never figure that kind of math out. If I had an unlimited bankroll I could just bet the limit and move on, such is not the case. Any ideas out there, thanks?

              Now remeber when I say edge I am looking for the % of edge I have over the BM.

              Comment


              • #8
                nhb

                As far as I can see there are only two ways of estimating probabilities.

                The first is to build a large file of results on the kind of situation you are looking at and see what the historical return has been on that kind of bet. There are problems here because to get meaningful results you often have to have a huge number of results and the data may not be available in large quantities. If it is you may have to pay for it from from one of the companies that keeps track of sportsbettng information. Then too there are lots of people looking at historical data all the time and it's unlikely that a good edge will remain undiscovered for long. People will start betting into that edge, the sportsbooks will adjust their lines and the edge will disappear.

                As an example of this kind of edge consider baseball - visiting dogs consistently have a greater return than home favourites. This is because most bettors a) prefer betting on favourites and b) assign too great an edge to the home team.

                The second much more difficult way is to build computer simulation models of the sports you are interested in and compare your results with the real world. If you get a pretty good match between your model and real life you can then use your model to bet into games where your model predicts that a certain wager has a higher probability of occurring than is predicted by the sportsbooks.

                People who call themselves handicappers and who don't use computers use the computer between their ears.

                Good luck

                'mute

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                • #9
                  Thank you 'mute

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by noholdsbarred
                      One of the Kelly prnciples I was made aware of was...determine the % of edge you have and bet that amount of your bankroll. I was working with a partner who told me this and he always figured out the %. He wouldn't share that with me. He was usually putting this into play on props, but he used it on halftime bets also.

                      I would find this useful except I wouldn't know how to go about finding the % of edge I have. I love betting props and there are some that it would appear I am stealing on so this formula would be valuable. Can anyone help me with this?
                      well, what is being discussed is simultaneous kelly events....

                      ..there just may not be enough bettable games on the card...if you DO insist on betting multiple games.... limit it to your TOP 3 or 4 games...

                      Turning to the question of simultaneous Kelly bets(sporting events occurring at the same time during the afternoon), we are fortunate to have the figures for 53.1% proficiency…so 53.1% proficiency over the long run of many seasons would mean dividing each stake into “67”(1.50% )betting units.


                      IN THIS CASE THEN of the simultaneous Kelly bets…


                      1 BET…………..divide entire bankroll by 67 to determine optimal bet size


                      2 BETS………….divide entire bankroll by 58 to determine optimal afternoon’s betting pot and divide the result into 2 equal bets for the afternoon’s games


                      3 BETS…………divide entire bankroll by 55 to determine optimal afternoon’s betting pot and divide the result into 3 equal bets for the afternoon’s games

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