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    We seem to have varying degrees of bookies.

    Some on this forum think a bookie should open his doors and take any bet from any player for any amount..

    Some on this forum think a bookie should be able to run his store anyway he deems fit.

    Some on this forum think a bookie should only worry about the bottom line. Not caring about who he beats and who he loses too.

    If a company puts out 500 products and loses money on 10 do they keep making the products that lose money or take them off the shelves.. Could this still be a good company?? What about the customers that used the 10 products?? They either switch to another company or do without..

    Why do some feel that bookies should be some kind of modern day Robin Hoods, taking from the customers and giving to the scalpers.

    Is it wrong for a book to try to maximize profits or cut their losses?

    So tell me whats a real bookie???


  • #2
    Duvall, This thread will become the sequel to Boomer's 'scalper' thread, but the ending will be the same. Lots of good input from both sides of the fence with no possible resolution. Wiseguys feel books should take a pop before moving their line, and deal them a rundown every 5 minutes if they so desire. Books feel it is their business and they have a right to select what lines they will deal, how often, and to whom. It's not a matter of who is right or wrong. The arguments are valid on both sides. Debate can be healthy only when it leads to a solution and doesn't resort to personal atacks.


    • #3
      Devil, as I said earlier, how far are you going to take this profit maximization? You can use the profit maximization excuse to boot anybody that beats you. THAT IS OKAY? How about a big sign on all their mailers and their website. We welcome all action from LOSERS, winners not welcome.


      • #4

        I would never chase anyone if it was my store.

        If I didn't want a particular customers business I would start lowering his limits until he got the idea he wasn't welcome. You keep mentioning throwing out the winners. you would be surprised at how many guys there are out there that call and call and call and never make a play because they can't get a number. They think your a line service..

        All scalpers don't bet 2 -20 dimes a game,there are dollar and nickle scalpers as well. Some are good customers some are pains. some beg over the phone, "can you give me -20 on the Yanks" when your using -25. Some only call during baseball season and expect you to treat them like kings then you don't hear from them the rest of the year when , god forbid, they have to risk laying 11/10.

        Books aren't stupid. They know whose costing them money and who they want to use for balance. But I think it should be up to them as far as which scalper to keep and which to either chase or lower their limits. The same way it's your choice to play with whatever book you want to send your money too.

        There are 400-500 maybe 600 offshore books out there, plenty want this type of business many don't. If your the type of player that gets chased from books, look for the ones that want that type of action..Don't be critical of a store that says Scalpers or wiseguys not welcome here.

        Bookmakers are no different than other types of businessman, what may be good for you is not good for me and visa versa, Is it a good idea to try to force your opinion on someone that doesn't want it. Should you try to sneak back in after your told your not welcome.

        I have a bad habit, I smoke. If i go to someones house that doesn't want me to smoke I have two choices. I go there and abide by their rules or I don't go there.

        THE DEVIL


        • #5
          Okay, you have a point. If a guy is calling 15 times at your busiest hour, and you are lucky to get 1 bet from him, that is a problem. Honestly do not know much about what scalpers do. I feel guilty if I call the book for a halftime line, and then pass, so obviously would not have the nerve to call him 20 times trying to get 5 cents better on a money line. IF it is just scalpers I see your point. The problem is that everybody has a DIFFERENT definition of wiseguy. People are also greedy. Once they boot the scalpers, then they get a little power hungry and start going after the rest of the winners.

          Personally, I only play 11/10 sports, and would never waste my time trying to middle, unless I see a ridiculously bad overnight line(in which case I always complete the middle elsewhere-that guilt complex again). You can deal me any line you want. Also I rarely will call in the rush hour. I ask one thing in return, that you continue to accept my action, no matter how bad I beat you. What percentage of books will go along with that?


          • #6

            A REAL BOOKIE?

            A REAL BOOKIE is someone who studies the bets of the PLAYERS who beat him. He make it his JOB to out smart the BEST PLAYERS he has. If he can't beat someone he will add him to the list of PLAYERS he moves his line on. He could care less about all the others, unless they make a huge play, And even then he might not care.

            A REAL BOOKIE will make his own line and then get another opinion. He then opens up with numbers that will ATTRACT BETS. The REAL BOOKIE is also a WISEGUY and can trick players into betting bad lines on a daily basis.

            The REAL BOOKIE wants these so-called unbeatable WISEGUYS to play with them! They would never even consider using any of these pathetic excuses to throw out PLAYERS.

            A REAL BOOKIE knows 2 way action is just a dream. It's a dream because you can't get it without moving your numbers, thus taking away your PROFITS because you WILL get middled. And now everbody OVER MOVES and the books are looking at MORE than 2 point middles. Sharp players don't take 1 point middles.


            [This message has been edited by DoggieStyle (edited 07-17-2000).]


            • #7
              I once had a real bookie tell me that a player who could beat him consistently would be his best customer.

              This smart bookie knew how to use the sharp play to his benefit, both to improve his line and to know which side to try and be on (when he had a choice).


              • #8
                Devil, I don't have any problem in the scenario you've posed for a book to reduce this player's limits and encourage him to leave. . . or even to boot him if necessary.

                The issue I think is running off players who just pick the right side more often than not, and who win consistently.

                Suppose a player knew when he sighed up that in case he ever shopped carefully and won consistently that he'd be asked to leave. Isn't that sort of a no-win proposition? I think this player would bypass this sportsbook in favor of one where winning was an option.

                Players need to know before they sign up if long term winning is allowed.


                • #9
                  Speaking from experience. A REAL BOOKIE has to have the following.

                  1.) A good and solid "collection agency" for those who are having a hard time paying.

                  2.) Very flexible meaning that you could hop from one to place another when Feds are after you.

                  Note: When a bookie keeps on hitting a client who is high roller three or four consecutive times, I don't care if that client is a doctor, CEO, VP, it will be a problem collecting. So, rule #1 strictly applies.


                  • #10
                    Devil...If a grocer takes off the shelves his 10 worst products that leaves him with 490. But out of the 490 he still has a new 10 worst. Does he get rid of these also? There is always going to be a worst. Does he keep eliminating till he has what?...Scotty


                    • #11
                      I think I have the answer to the topic of this thread. Its Reno. That is a real bookie, he tells you what he would make the game after the game is final. What a pro!!

                      Oh by the way BM/Reno did you get any busy signals on the phones today?


                      • #12

                        Valid point.

                        But not the way I said it.. In your version yes you will always have a new worst..

                        I said 500 products, 10 lose money. Yes 490 is now my new worst, but I'm still making money with it.



                        • #13

                          You seem to know a lot about Reno.. While your dislike for the man is showing it's getting a little out of hand. You know his name, call him on the phone. These blasts on this forum are unwanted and IMO uncalled for.

                          THE DEVIL