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This is a horrible story about a bookmaker I saw on another web site. I have permisson to spread the word.
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Hello everybody, I promised to get back to you about what happened between me and Worldbet.com. I'm sorry that it took some time. But here it is.
All this happened in september 1999. Eventough some time has passed since these events took place, it is still the same company and more importantly, the same people running the operation today. You may wonder why I come with this now over a year later, but when this happened I was so pissed of and intended to tell about it on different betting forums, however after some events in my personal life it lost priority and now when I was reading and deleting old e-mails a couple of weeks ago the whole story came back to me.
On Sep 20 at 16:55 i place a bet on a japanese soccer match (Gamba Osaka - Urawa Red Diamonds). The night after, Sep 21, I decide to place some additional bets. Eleven parlay bets made up of different combinations of four matches. At this point I have made 12 bets at a total of 1330 USD. All of these bets were made with money that had been in my worldbet account for several weeks.
After this I make an online credit card deposit to my account. Another 500 usd that is spend on parlay bets. Yet another day later (please note that none of the matches has been played yet) Sep 22, I deposit 500 usd more by credit card and again make parlay bets. In the same evening I want to place 300 USD as a single bet on a soccer match and because the maximum deposit limit for creditcards on Worldbet is 1000 USD per week I must make a deposit by fax. I do so, and because I want some extra money on my WB account I choose to deposit 1000 USD by fax but only use 300 for betting the same evening. Ok, that was a lot of deposits and different bets, but at this point in the evening of Sep 22 none of the matches has started yet. They were going to be played on the 23rd.
After having made the last deposit to WB I get an email from them that confirms my deposit. Later that evening (Sep 22 ) I get another e-mail from WB where they ask me to give them my passport number for authorization:
"Subject: Fw: WorldBet Payment Credited (405)
Dear NN, can you please give us your passport number for our credit card processor - bank ?
They usually ask us for it in case of authorization of 1.000 USD and more.
Thank you
Anne-Marie Piccard
billing services"
Unfortunatly I dont read my e-mail that evening and therfor I have no chance to comply with their request until after all the soccer matches have been played. Please note that the e-mail is a reference to my deposit nr 405 which is the 1000 USD fax deposit. Late in the evening on the 23rd after all the matches has been played I recieve the following mail from Worldbet:
"As we have informed by our billing centre there was some error in your credit card authorization and according to our rules section III b) we have been forced to cancel your last bets.
The betted amount was returned onto your player's account.
Please send to our billing centre the requested info to release your credit for following betting.
We are sorry for all inconvenience this is causing ...
Regards,
Hugo van Ryan
system administrator"
rules section III b) looks like this:
"Credit is not given for bets. All bets must be covered when made. Bets for which there is no valid proof of payment will not be accepted, nor will bets made by customers that do not have enough money in their account to cover the minimum bet requirement."
Now, I thought that they canceled my bet made with the payment made by fax, but no. They canceled all my outstanding bets. Including the ones made with money that had been in my account for several weeks and had been used for betting before. Some of the canceled bets were winners and becuase of the cancelation I lost 8700 USD. After realizing they had canceled all my bets there were some e-mail correspondance that you can read below:
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From me 24 september 1999 00:35:
"Dear Mr van Ryan, I am not very impressed about the information you have given me. You say that there has been some error in my credit card authorization. Could you please be a little more specific about what kinds of problems you have experienced with my creditcard.
I have checked my deposits to Worldbet and as I can see it there has been no problems with the payments. On the 9th of august I made a payment of 600 USD and on the 11th of august a payment of 800 USD was made. Both of the payments was correctly withdrawn from my bankaccount. Neither has there been any problems with any of my previous payments, and I have been a Worldbet customer for I think over a year now.
In the past days I have made payments of 500 + 500 + 1000 USD. Since there is enough money on my bankaccount at the present I can not see what the problem could be. All of these three payments has been confirmed by the Worldbet billing centre. The last payment request (1000 USD) was made by fax including my signature just as you demand, so I can not see this beeing the problem either.
I assume that you are aware of that I have made some large bets on soccer that has been playing during this day (the 23rd of september). This means that you have rejected all my bets AFTER the end of these matches. I have not recieved the results of these soccer matches yet, but if it turns out that my bets were correct, I will not be pleased.
Until I recieve the correct results, I would be glad if you could please inform me about the exact problems you have had with my payments."
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From Worldbet 24 september 1999 15:10:
"After receiving your fax form we have tried to authorize the payment. Our authorization centre requested us more information about the client included passport number due to amount over 1.000 USD. We have credited this amount to your user account and requested you by mail for sending us this addition information. Because we haven't obtain this yet we have been forced to cancel your current betting tickets. This is the standard process in the resembling situations.
Regards,
Hugo van Ryan
system administrator"
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From Me 29 september 1999 17:56:
Just as I suspected, most of my betting on the japanese soccer matches were correct. According to my calculations I have made a profit of aproximatly 8700 USD. However you canceled the bets about 8 hours AFTER the games have been played.
If you want to cancel the bets because of demands from your creditcard authorization centre you must do so at the latest when the match starts. Otherwise Worldbet has the oportunity to choose: If the bet is a winner, cancel it. If the game is a looser, let it stand. I can never accept that you (Worldbet) have this opportunity to cancel games already played and blame the cancellation on "standard process". Surely if you try to put yourself in my or any other customers place, you must understand that this is a totally unacceptable situation.
Now let ut talk about exactly what has happened. What bets you have canceled, and when and with what money the bets were made:
Sept 21 18:54 - I placed bets of totally 950 USD. All of these bets were made with money that has been on my account since the last deposit on the 11th of august. As I can see it these bets have nothing to do with our disagreement about the payment made by fax on the 22nd of Sept and shall therefor not be cancelled.
Sept 21 19:37 - Deposit of 500 USD via Internet. All of this money were invested in betting five minutes later. Just as above these bets have nothing to do with our disagreement about the payment made by fax on the 22nd of Sept and shall therefor not be cancelled.
Sept 22 18:53 - Deposit of 500 USD via Internet which was invested in betting ten minutes later. Just as above these bets have nothing to do with our disagreement about the payment made by fax on the 22nd of Sept and shall therefor not be cancelled.
Sept 22 19:08 - Now we come to our disagreement, the requested payment by fax of 1000 USD. Out of these 1000 USD 300 was invested in betting. After this you sent me the following e-mail:
"Can you please give us your passport number for our credit card processor bank ? They usually ask us for it in case of authorization of 1.000 USD and more.
Thank you
Anne-Marie Piccard
billing services"
The problem is that I do not read this e-mail straight away. I read it at the same time as I am informed about the canceled bets, so I never get the opportunity to give you my passport number.
if we look back at this situation we can see that our disagreement concerns ONLY the payment of 1000 USD and the bet made with these money. This is confirmed by the e-mail sent by Anne-Marie Piccard.
Claming that, since I have made deposits of over 1000 USD over a couple of days, ALL of the payments (500+500+1000) must be verified by my passportnumber, is not a valid argument. I can say this because on the 9th and 11th of august I made deposits of totally 1400 USD and no passport authorisation was needed. Again, this points to the fact that our disagreement concerns only the fax deposit of 1000 USD and the bet made with these money.
The only bet that was made after the fax deposit was a 300 USD bet on Osaka-Urawa at 4,70. The match was a winner and the winning amount would have been 1410 USD. If I put myself in your situation I can understand that you can not accept bets if you havent got the payment confimed. Therefor I will accept that you cancel this bet. I do not like it, but I will accept it. However none of the other bets are related to the fax deposit and shall therefor be accepted.
I have now given you a large number of arguments that supports my case, please show me respect and meet these arguments. (or even better - accept the bets made until the fax deposit). Not only replying with: "This is the standard process in the resembling situations.""
After this e-mail Worldbet or Hugo van Ryan has not answered any of my e-mails. I send them another one about two weeks ago asking them if they had any comments before telling about it on a discussion board. No answer. Obvioulsy Worldbet dont think they have made any mistake when canceling all my bets, but it would be interesting to hear what you think about it. Is Worldbet wrong or am I wrong in all this?
A "funny" thing is that I actually never gave them my passport number. Still I managed to place a bet with them on Sep 27 and lost 300 USD. This bet was never canceled and I lost the money, altough they had never recieved my passport number. Strange isnīt it? It seems like they only cancel winning bets after they have been played. Some time later i withdrew all my money from Worldbet.
Should you wish to come in contact with me please do so by e-mail: [email protected] or naturally write it here. Should you wish to contact Worldbet use: [email protected] or [email protected]
Regards. :mad:
----------------------------------------
Hello everybody, I promised to get back to you about what happened between me and Worldbet.com. I'm sorry that it took some time. But here it is.
All this happened in september 1999. Eventough some time has passed since these events took place, it is still the same company and more importantly, the same people running the operation today. You may wonder why I come with this now over a year later, but when this happened I was so pissed of and intended to tell about it on different betting forums, however after some events in my personal life it lost priority and now when I was reading and deleting old e-mails a couple of weeks ago the whole story came back to me.
On Sep 20 at 16:55 i place a bet on a japanese soccer match (Gamba Osaka - Urawa Red Diamonds). The night after, Sep 21, I decide to place some additional bets. Eleven parlay bets made up of different combinations of four matches. At this point I have made 12 bets at a total of 1330 USD. All of these bets were made with money that had been in my worldbet account for several weeks.
After this I make an online credit card deposit to my account. Another 500 usd that is spend on parlay bets. Yet another day later (please note that none of the matches has been played yet) Sep 22, I deposit 500 usd more by credit card and again make parlay bets. In the same evening I want to place 300 USD as a single bet on a soccer match and because the maximum deposit limit for creditcards on Worldbet is 1000 USD per week I must make a deposit by fax. I do so, and because I want some extra money on my WB account I choose to deposit 1000 USD by fax but only use 300 for betting the same evening. Ok, that was a lot of deposits and different bets, but at this point in the evening of Sep 22 none of the matches has started yet. They were going to be played on the 23rd.
After having made the last deposit to WB I get an email from them that confirms my deposit. Later that evening (Sep 22 ) I get another e-mail from WB where they ask me to give them my passport number for authorization:
"Subject: Fw: WorldBet Payment Credited (405)
Dear NN, can you please give us your passport number for our credit card processor - bank ?
They usually ask us for it in case of authorization of 1.000 USD and more.
Thank you
Anne-Marie Piccard
billing services"
Unfortunatly I dont read my e-mail that evening and therfor I have no chance to comply with their request until after all the soccer matches have been played. Please note that the e-mail is a reference to my deposit nr 405 which is the 1000 USD fax deposit. Late in the evening on the 23rd after all the matches has been played I recieve the following mail from Worldbet:
"As we have informed by our billing centre there was some error in your credit card authorization and according to our rules section III b) we have been forced to cancel your last bets.
The betted amount was returned onto your player's account.
Please send to our billing centre the requested info to release your credit for following betting.
We are sorry for all inconvenience this is causing ...
Regards,
Hugo van Ryan
system administrator"
rules section III b) looks like this:
"Credit is not given for bets. All bets must be covered when made. Bets for which there is no valid proof of payment will not be accepted, nor will bets made by customers that do not have enough money in their account to cover the minimum bet requirement."
Now, I thought that they canceled my bet made with the payment made by fax, but no. They canceled all my outstanding bets. Including the ones made with money that had been in my account for several weeks and had been used for betting before. Some of the canceled bets were winners and becuase of the cancelation I lost 8700 USD. After realizing they had canceled all my bets there were some e-mail correspondance that you can read below:
------------------
From me 24 september 1999 00:35:
"Dear Mr van Ryan, I am not very impressed about the information you have given me. You say that there has been some error in my credit card authorization. Could you please be a little more specific about what kinds of problems you have experienced with my creditcard.
I have checked my deposits to Worldbet and as I can see it there has been no problems with the payments. On the 9th of august I made a payment of 600 USD and on the 11th of august a payment of 800 USD was made. Both of the payments was correctly withdrawn from my bankaccount. Neither has there been any problems with any of my previous payments, and I have been a Worldbet customer for I think over a year now.
In the past days I have made payments of 500 + 500 + 1000 USD. Since there is enough money on my bankaccount at the present I can not see what the problem could be. All of these three payments has been confirmed by the Worldbet billing centre. The last payment request (1000 USD) was made by fax including my signature just as you demand, so I can not see this beeing the problem either.
I assume that you are aware of that I have made some large bets on soccer that has been playing during this day (the 23rd of september). This means that you have rejected all my bets AFTER the end of these matches. I have not recieved the results of these soccer matches yet, but if it turns out that my bets were correct, I will not be pleased.
Until I recieve the correct results, I would be glad if you could please inform me about the exact problems you have had with my payments."
-----------------------------
From Worldbet 24 september 1999 15:10:
"After receiving your fax form we have tried to authorize the payment. Our authorization centre requested us more information about the client included passport number due to amount over 1.000 USD. We have credited this amount to your user account and requested you by mail for sending us this addition information. Because we haven't obtain this yet we have been forced to cancel your current betting tickets. This is the standard process in the resembling situations.
Regards,
Hugo van Ryan
system administrator"
------------------------------
From Me 29 september 1999 17:56:
Just as I suspected, most of my betting on the japanese soccer matches were correct. According to my calculations I have made a profit of aproximatly 8700 USD. However you canceled the bets about 8 hours AFTER the games have been played.
If you want to cancel the bets because of demands from your creditcard authorization centre you must do so at the latest when the match starts. Otherwise Worldbet has the oportunity to choose: If the bet is a winner, cancel it. If the game is a looser, let it stand. I can never accept that you (Worldbet) have this opportunity to cancel games already played and blame the cancellation on "standard process". Surely if you try to put yourself in my or any other customers place, you must understand that this is a totally unacceptable situation.
Now let ut talk about exactly what has happened. What bets you have canceled, and when and with what money the bets were made:
Sept 21 18:54 - I placed bets of totally 950 USD. All of these bets were made with money that has been on my account since the last deposit on the 11th of august. As I can see it these bets have nothing to do with our disagreement about the payment made by fax on the 22nd of Sept and shall therefor not be cancelled.
Sept 21 19:37 - Deposit of 500 USD via Internet. All of this money were invested in betting five minutes later. Just as above these bets have nothing to do with our disagreement about the payment made by fax on the 22nd of Sept and shall therefor not be cancelled.
Sept 22 18:53 - Deposit of 500 USD via Internet which was invested in betting ten minutes later. Just as above these bets have nothing to do with our disagreement about the payment made by fax on the 22nd of Sept and shall therefor not be cancelled.
Sept 22 19:08 - Now we come to our disagreement, the requested payment by fax of 1000 USD. Out of these 1000 USD 300 was invested in betting. After this you sent me the following e-mail:
"Can you please give us your passport number for our credit card processor bank ? They usually ask us for it in case of authorization of 1.000 USD and more.
Thank you
Anne-Marie Piccard
billing services"
The problem is that I do not read this e-mail straight away. I read it at the same time as I am informed about the canceled bets, so I never get the opportunity to give you my passport number.
if we look back at this situation we can see that our disagreement concerns ONLY the payment of 1000 USD and the bet made with these money. This is confirmed by the e-mail sent by Anne-Marie Piccard.
Claming that, since I have made deposits of over 1000 USD over a couple of days, ALL of the payments (500+500+1000) must be verified by my passportnumber, is not a valid argument. I can say this because on the 9th and 11th of august I made deposits of totally 1400 USD and no passport authorisation was needed. Again, this points to the fact that our disagreement concerns only the fax deposit of 1000 USD and the bet made with these money.
The only bet that was made after the fax deposit was a 300 USD bet on Osaka-Urawa at 4,70. The match was a winner and the winning amount would have been 1410 USD. If I put myself in your situation I can understand that you can not accept bets if you havent got the payment confimed. Therefor I will accept that you cancel this bet. I do not like it, but I will accept it. However none of the other bets are related to the fax deposit and shall therefor be accepted.
I have now given you a large number of arguments that supports my case, please show me respect and meet these arguments. (or even better - accept the bets made until the fax deposit). Not only replying with: "This is the standard process in the resembling situations.""
After this e-mail Worldbet or Hugo van Ryan has not answered any of my e-mails. I send them another one about two weeks ago asking them if they had any comments before telling about it on a discussion board. No answer. Obvioulsy Worldbet dont think they have made any mistake when canceling all my bets, but it would be interesting to hear what you think about it. Is Worldbet wrong or am I wrong in all this?
A "funny" thing is that I actually never gave them my passport number. Still I managed to place a bet with them on Sep 27 and lost 300 USD. This bet was never canceled and I lost the money, altough they had never recieved my passport number. Strange isnīt it? It seems like they only cancel winning bets after they have been played. Some time later i withdrew all my money from Worldbet.
Should you wish to come in contact with me please do so by e-mail: [email protected] or naturally write it here. Should you wish to contact Worldbet use: [email protected] or [email protected]
Regards. :mad: