Bowmans.....

[chestrockwells]

Cons, I understand the instances I described are not the SAME as what you described. In answer to your question, no I have not had what you described happen to me, I don't know why especially since I had a winning season. As far as online is concerned, I used to have an account with Carib and there was one instance I recall where between clicking on and confirming of a wager a screen would come on and say that the previous line was no longer available....do you want the new line. So life isn't perfect and this is not meant to make light of your complaint but I never forget that we are gambling...the books are trying to maximize profits. So even though I agree that this is not "a fair business practice" I understand why they do it. I also understand why they charge you for payouts and why they don't give out bonuses. People come to this forum and I think incorrectly assume that all books are competing for the same customers. I think that's grossly incorrect. Call it what you will, but all sportsbooks play some sort of game with their customers. As you pointed out, some are more transparent than others.

[Hartley]

I have another question for Bowman's too. 2 weeks ago Mika Hakkinen finished 3rd but was temporarily given the win after problems with the car. Every other book payed out on podium finish (i.e. with Irvine getting the win) but Hakkinen was declared the winner by Bowman's.

As it turns out this was a mistake, as the decision was reversed later anyways. It seemed bizzarre to pay out on an appeal (which is never done), but from other books I spoke to, Irvine was a much much higher liability than Hakkinen (as Mika was less than even money).

Was this bet ever reversed to giving Irvine the rightful win? Also if Herbert had finished 3rd at 40-1 as a member of the field and would have caused massive liability, would Herbert have been declared the winner or did that only apply to Hakkinen?

Just wondering.

[Leo Walters2]

If a clerk quotes a line to a customer on the phone there is no legitimate reason to change it without letting the customer make a bet. Most of the Sports Book computer systems in use out there have features that only updatelines at a clerks work station after a phone call has ended and before he picks up his next call. Anything else is out and out cheating of a customer and any bookmaker who does not honor a line quoted to a customer is an out and out theif and should find a new line of work.

[reno]

The bottomline is this: Bowman's has continually gone downhill since I've been involved in offshore betting. Until they turn it around, I wouldn't recommend them. Unlike a couple of years ago, there are now numerous other superior offshore books to play with. I took all of my money out of Bowman's and don't plan on playing with them again until they offer on-line wagering that enables me to bet the lines I see for respectable limits.

[Cons]

That's exactly my point: if you quote a line then honor it. At least have the dignity to do that. And don't make excuses as we're not in middle school any more.

I agree that competition has risen considerably in the last few years. When I started out with Bowmans, they were the only book I regarded as safe. Today, there are a quite a few that I would classify as safer, and I won't even go into other aspects like bet options or integrity...

[oddswiz]

A couple of points......first, Cons, as far as the online books being transparent, or not able to do this.......not true.

Most of the software out there is capable of dealing different players different lines. Your profile is set up, and once you log on, you'll be given whatever lines they choose to give you.

Now on to Bowmans. First let me say, I agree 100% that this issue has to be addressed. This is not the first time this has come up, and it's obviously a sore spot with some of the players. This forum is called RANTS and raves, and this is a legitimate rant. Especially considering it was a NASCAR wager.

Steve has said they will be adressing this, so let's see what happens. Hopefully Steve can keep us updated as to when things should be running smoother.

Let me also make a point that is often overlooked, just for the sake of throwing this info into the mix......

I have had the line changed on me by EVERY online book I have ever used. Most of you have also experienced the exact same thing. As a matter of fact, there are online books that can sit there and watch you attempt to make a wager, and then decided whether or not they want to accept this wager from you, change the line, or whatever else they want to do.

In a sense, this is really no different. Shouldn't the price quoted at the time you click "submit wager" be honored? Why is this acceptable?

Just wanted to throw out an example to show that this isn't necessarily isolated to just one book.

In closing though, I will say that one of the oldest "rules" in the bookmaking world, is that you always get the number that was verbally quoted

[ShiftySheik]

>Have you ever had the line move while you were placing a bet? Has it moved in your favor?

Beleive it or not it has happened to me a couple times. I was betting baseball and they gave me a better line on the read back!One time betting tennis, they rejected my bet, I got the new line, then went the other way. There must have been lots of callers in the queue getting down on that tennis match.

[Cons]

Thanks for replying Jeff!

The bet I made, or tried to make actually, was a [b]futures,/b> bet on Formula 1 racing. As mentioned before, I would probably accept this to a point if it was on a baseball game about to start with the line moving constantly. But doing this on a futures bet is just asking for it to be brought out.

After I called my bet and they manipulated the line, I asked to be put through to customer service. I informed them that I would be letting fellow players on Bettorsworld know about this example, and they seemed indifferent to say the least.

Jeff, about online books being able to give different people different lines, wouldn't that only be possible if the book didn't let non-members view their lines. After all, you can always enter as a guest and check if the lines are the same you're getting after you log-on.

[Cons]

YIKES! Sorry about the formatting...

[Jeff]

Cons, the books that let non members view their lines can let them view any numbers they want.

For example, this past summer I checked out a very popular online books baseball lines. After viewing the lines, I couldn't get my deposit there fast enough. I think I tripped on the rug on my way to FEDEX.

But guess what? Once I posted up and started playing with them, the numbers I was getting were far from the numbers they had displayed on their site for all to see.

I really have no problem with this. As I've said a million times before, a book can deal me whatever numbers they want. I have the option of passing or playing........but it does happen.

[Cons]

I see what you mean. Looking at I'tops though, I can always check the odds as a guest and after I log on and they are always identical. So I know nobody's simply looking at how I play and trying to give me the worst deal possible.

I wouldn't stick to a book that set-up lines against the way I bet. It's kind of like having a supermarket rush to change prices as I come in knowing quite well that I'll head staight for the beer section.

But it's their choice to do what they want. If I was affected by such actions I would leave though, and tell close betting friends to watch out too.

[Cons]

What I mean is that if this were any other industry in the world we would scream murder and start calling consumer-rights associations straight away. The sportsbooks should be making their mone by balancing the books right.

[boris]

You get beer in supermarkets??? Crikey, it's behind a bank vault down here, if you go somewhere when persons not of age can go!

There are books that have instant bets and others that don't. For example in Australia, DAS and Megasports are an instant bet, wheras
Centrebet needs someone to approve it. You need to find a place that will approve it instantaneously, no matter who you are.

[Cons]

What about Canbet, do they do it instantaneously?

Washington State controls strong alcohol to the point that it is only sold in state-owned stores. You can't exactly go to your local Safeway and pick up a few bottles of gin...

In England you can buy anywhere. It's just that their legislation on bar closing times hasn't changed since the war. They are now thinking of letting bars operate 24h again. Finally a little freedom on its way back... don't like gov't messing with booze that much.

[boris]

Cons, not sure about Canbet, don't use them, but I'm sure someone else here can provide us with an answer.