Re: VC Online Betting

[Shawn]

Stanley...

Why not ring up and see if you can strike your own bargain? Many places will "reduce the juice" for good clients.

[Gregg]

Stanley,
Firstly, sorry for the delay in replying.There is really no defence for the difference in lines. What Cons says is right, myself and Chris have only endeavoured to give our American clients what they would consider a fair deal.

Do you think that if we bet -120 each side and +1600 we would take many bets on golf matchups from our Superbook customers??

Even though we are the same company, at the moment we have our own clients and are allowed to deal our own separate lines.The majority of Victor Chandler International customers are based in the UK, and have a freephone number to call. I'm sure that you are aware of the tax situation in the UK, and therefore they are more than happy to only pay a service charge of 3% with VCI.

If they choose, they may also open an account with us(solely to get 10/11 on golf matchups if they wish)but they then have to pay for their phone calls - but with no service charge.

It's theirs, and your call. Our Superbook customers are happy with 10/11 and we will keep it that way for as long as we are able.

When Superbook goes online as well, obviously we will have to address the situation again. It may be that we have to compromise and bet 9/10, but this is only my thoughts.

If I am asked for my opinion Stanley, I would like to offer 10/11 for all clients. At the moment, golf has nowhere near as big a turnover as it should have. We see golf as being potentially one of the biggest betting markets, alongside horse racing.
That is why we are happy to invest in the sport itself - being the official Bookmaker to the European Tour.

I hope that this has explained the situation a little. As you see, we are not really 'dealing double lines'.From our point of view we only ever gave OUR clientele what they expect.
Stanley, these are purely my thoughts, and not necessarily those of VCI or Superbook.


Yours in sport,

Gregg Rathbone
Gregg.rathbone@vcint.com

[AussieVamp2]

Stanley, the ordinary euro punter seems to get a raw deal everywhere

[Stanley]

Thanks for the reply Gregg and I really think my comments are not directed at your division, but at VCI. You do a great job compared to many other books in the varieties of golf bets that you offer, in particular two-ball and'in-running' betting.

But before I want to question VCI's policy again, can I ask you a specific question about Superbook?

If, as you say, you are only giving your American clients what they would consider to be a fair deal, why do you have 3-way golf betting? Surely the American golf punter is used to and would expect a 'ties push' rule. I have found that in both this forum and Mad Jack's that the biggest issue other golfer bettors have with Euro books is the ties lose rule [ie the separate bet for a tie]. They absolutely detest it! Until you bring your golf lines into line with everything else on offer for "(Y)OUR clientele", then golf will not be as big as market for you as it could be.


As for VCI, then they really have no basis for thinking that us Euros think -120 each side and +1600 is a fair deal. Only one other bookmaker/sportsbook offers such lines: BlueSq.

Everyone else has either 10/11 or 9/10 per side. Those that have these odds online are Ladbrokes (the Gibraltar operation), Stan James, William Hill [two-ball betting only] and Sportingbet. Those that are UK telephone betting companies such as Multisports, Sunderland, Coral, Stanley Racing [no connection!], Surry Sports, all have these odds.

The prices that VCI are quoting on golf are not what golf punters in Britain/Europe expect. It is no justification.

I know that I can deal with Superbook direct and pay the telephone charges [though I didn't know I could barter over the juice Shawn, look forward to that at Pinnacle ], but unless I had visited this forum I wouldn't have known about it. The link from the European Tour site takes you to the VCI site. All the promo on teletext in Britain is for the VCI site. I have never seen a link to the superbook site from any VCI page; but interestingly there is one from the superbook site to VCI.

VCI is relying on the ignorance of the European golf bettor for its business, else they would open an account with Superbook or any other sportsbook, European or not, that offers 10/11 or 9/10 each side. That can't be good for VCI business and certainly isn't good for the VCI golf bettor.

If you want to respond to me off-board Gregg, then please e-mail me at Stanley@tour-tips.com

[Cons]

Stanley, I fully agree that the emphasis should be placed on VCI and not Superbook. It's the UK division that is offering exorbitant juice, while Superbook has given us a fair deal all along.

Overall, Britain itself is one major rip-off, by far the greatest I have come across. Everything works like a cartel, especially car manufacturers. There's price-fixing in almost every product you buy.

Unfortunately, we have bufoons starting these ridiculous "Save the Pound" campaigns which make no sense to the educated man, but only appeal to the archaic types who belong in the middle ages, or others easily swayed by propaganda which appeals to a false sense of national pride.

Save the Pound is equivalent to asking for the BIG rip-off to continue. Keeping the Pound will only benefit corporations, mostly foreign ones, who will continue to rob the British comsumer like there's no tomorrow. It seems that all these ridiculous campaign run by tabloids like the Sun/Mirror are backed by companies like Ford or Thomas Cook.

On the British sportsbok scene, I think only Superbook and Sportingbet have understood that overcharging on juice will not fare well in the long run. Superbowl props at BlueSq were unbettable. As far as tennis goes, I would like to see better lines anywhere, as all the books I'm with both here and abroad were dishing out 40-cent lines. Why? Even on the final...?

Gregg, I tried to see the updated Superbowl lines during the game, but to no avail. Were they being posted live, or was my browser acting funny?

[Gregg]

Cons,
Unfortunately, the 'in running' prices were not updated on our website. They were only available by phone, and also on teletext in the UK.

Cheers,
Gregg

[Phil]

Gregg - Ray mentioned this in his post above but I wanted to ask you specifically. Could you guys start offering just the PLACE part of the EACH WAYS wager. Many times the bettor just wants the top 4 finish and is not interested in the TO WIN part. Mostly cause he probably thinks his guy can't win, or cause some big guy like Tiger Woods is in the event and is a prohibitive lock to win it and hence the bettor doesn't want to have to spend double to make his bet.

I called you guys earlier today and have been in the online system but was told that you could not do this. Maybe you could see if you could help us out?

[Cons]

Funny you should mention this Phil, but I came into contact with each-way wagers for the first time this month.

When a guy at Stan James tried to explain the idea to me I was totally lost. I was convinced that I was simply taking a guy at say 1,2 at 1/3 of the odds. But no, a big no. The truth was that half of my wager was going this way, while the other half was going on him strictly to win.

Still doesn't make sense to me I must say. If I wanted to bet the guy "to win" I would do so normally, so why drop it in as a companion to the each-way half of the bet?

I too would sure like a betting option (doesn't have to be each-way) which would just take into accoutn a player/team to end in the top positions listed.

[Stanley]

After all that you wrote Gregg, your matchups at Superbook for the AT&T are -120 each side

Looks like you won't be taking many bets from your Superbook customers!!

[chris]

Stanley,

Sorry about that but the -120 line is put up by the VCI dept to reflect their 5/6 price. We then alter it ourselves each week to the -110 line.

At this time although the line says -120 any customer calling in will get -110.

Regards

Phil Moorby
Supervisor VC

[Hamhog]

I have called in plenty of times and been quoted the 40 cents, ties lose lines.

[chris]

Hamhog,

We endeavour to make sure that the operators have the correct lines and if you are given a 40 cent line then it is done in error.

In this instance ask to have it checked by a supervisor. We apologise for any inconvenience caused by this but if you are looking to bet on the correct line it is worth your while making the effort.

Regards

Phil Moorby
Supervisor VC

[Hamhog]

Chris,

What are your limits on golf matchups?


Hamhog

[Stanley]

Thanks Phil. Lines now read -110 each side on the site.

Any response to my earlier question to the Superbook division about having a ties push set-up for golf wagers to suit 'what US clients would expect'?

[Shawn]

No clue about golf, but if Chris & co. run it like they run other stuff, they're serious: if the line the clerk quotes seems too juiced, just ask to speak with a supervisor and discuss the situation with him. I've gotten vig slashed on soccer, match-up props in various sports, even the Boat Race.