Betmaker - double dealing lines

[mls]

As many of you know by now, Betmaker deals two different lines over the internet. One line is for favorite players and the other is for dog players.

I personally know this is true since all I have to do is compare my lines with a "guest" lines. The "guest" lines are for the general public and try to rip an extra 1/2 point from the casual favorite bettor.

Personally I think this practice is sleazy - no Vegas casino/sportsbook would try it.

In any event, anyone else know of any other internet books that have this sleazy practice?

[Cons]

I fully agree. It's not fair at all to dish-out double lines to different people. It's actually a very dishonest thing to do IMO.

Here in England I can't even imagine a street-corner sportsbook like William Hill abruptly changing their lines because they can see a recognized "dog bettor" walking towards their office from the other side of the road.

EVERY bettor has betting habits, and for a book to use this to offer "worse" lines is disgusting.

Apart from several new online books which I have signed up with just recently (last two weeks), I have only one other internet out - Intertops. I have been with them since they moved their operation to Antigua to save us bettors from paying betting tax. Never, ever have I seen a different line by logging in as a guest, and then as myself. It's one of many reasons why I am still with them today.

If Betmaker (or any other book) happens to deal double-lines, then why don't they acknowledge this openly? Let them explain to us why they do so, why they think this is justified and a proper thing to do. I can't wait to hear this...

[Chester]

IN REGARDS TO COMPANIES THAT ALLEDGEDLY DEAL A SPLIT
LINE DID YOU EVER THINK YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS WHAT IS
HAPPENING?
ALL THE BIG WISEGUY BETTORS ALWAYS FIND THE VALUE IN
THE DOG.
EXAMPLE: OPEN ORDERS ON T.B.+14.5 AND TENN.+7.5 THIS
PAST WEEKEND.
THOSE COMPANIES THAT ALLEDGEDLY SPLIT THEIR LINE DO
IT TO DISCOURAGE SYNDICATE BETTORS WHO ONLY PLAY WHEN
THE LINE FAVORS THEM.
THEY ARE HAPPY TO GIVE THESE NUMBERS TO THEIR
EVERYDAY PLAYERS WHO PLAY THEIR OWN GAMES AS WELL AS
THE STEAM GAMES,BUT SPLIT THE LINE TO DISCOURAGE THE
MOVERS FOR THE LARGE BETTING SYNDICATES FROM POSTING
UP AND ONLY PLAYING WHEN THEY CAN GET THE BEST OF THE
NUMBER.
ISN'T THIS BETTER THAN HAVING A DISCLAIMER IN THE
HOUSE RULES STATING THAT IF THE HOUSE FEELS YOU ARE
BETTING FOR A SYNDICATE THEY RESERVE THE RIGHT NOT TO
PAY YOU?
IT REQUIRES A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF DEDICATION AND WORK
TO REMAIN PROFITABLE AND OVERCOME THE HUGE MARKETING
AND OPERATING COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH OPERATING
OFFSHORE.
IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE FOUND SOMETHING WORK IT TO YOUR
ADVANTAGE OPEN SEVERAL ACCOUNTS AT THE SAME BOOK AND
GET THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.
AS FOR BETMAKER.COM THEY PAY 20-1 ON 8TEAM 6 POINT
TEASERS IN FOOTBALL,THEY PAY 15-1 ON 8 TEAM TEASERS IN
BASKETBALL,AND I WAS PARTNERS IN A 10 TEAM PARLAY
WHICH HIT AT ODDS OF 600-1 FOR A BIG PIECE OF CHANGE .
I ASK YOU IS THERE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THESE ODDS?
AND AS KRACKMAN SO ELEQUENTLY PUT IT THE MOST
IMPORTANT THING IS GETTING PAID AND TAKE IT FROM ME
BETMAKER.COM PAYS AND IN THE CASE OF THIS PARTICULAR
PARLAY SIX FIGURES WITH ABSOLUTELY NO DELAY...

[Cons]

Chester, buddy,

First of all, please depress the CAPS LOCK key. It seems to have become stuck or something...

Secondly, getting paid is not an issue really. Choose your books wisely and you won't even have to think about it. When you pick a bank to open a checking account at, do you constantly wonder whether it'll disappear overnight? Play strictly with solid books, and you'll be able to sleep comfortably at night. The simple fact that a book pays is no longer worth screaming about. It's nothing special anymore, and we don't go around saying, "wow, these guys actually pay."

As far as books having these little laws to protect them from syndicates, I'm not sure I'm so much against them anymore. I'm not a syndicate player, so I have no need to worry about my bets getting cancelled. Any book that would do so could just as well refuse to pay for any reason whatsoever. Or for no reason at all. No decent book would do so to an innocent person or their reputation would be long gone. But, the laws DO protect the books from real syndicates, and if the books want protection from them then I would rather they include it in the laws, rather than rip-off people like me on the lines.


What's wrong with 600-1 odds? Nothing that I can see... though I wouldn't mind hitting a 600-1 parlay.

To end this on a high note, weren't you part of a syndicate, um... I mean "partnership" on that bet?


[This message has been edited by Cons (edited 01-25-2000).]

[scott]

The bookie gives you a line. Its his right to shade it for whatever reason he chooses. Its the players right to choose either side or pass. Is there something else involved? Scotty

[BigMoney]

I'm wondering if there isn't a way to make this crap work for the player. Suppose one sets up two accounts, under different names, and uses totally different profile indicators (initial deposit amount, method, etc). Then, assuming one plays a reasonable split between favorites and dogs, he could choose which account to bet from with the best of the two lines.

[mls]

Maybe Chester is right - what is so bad about trying to ripoff the small bettors (the ones that bet 90% favorites and provide 90% of a books profits).

Afterall they are going to lose in the long run anyway - so why not hit them with an extra 1/2 point or 10%?

A fair game, a square deal ... where do you think you are, Vegas??

Not one of the major books on the Don Best feed, not one book in Vegas, not one book in Australia, posts a separate "suckers" line for the small bettor.

I am unaware of any documented case other than Betmaker than has such a separate "sucker" line for the small bettor who bets mainly favorites.

Please advise me if I have overlooked any other sleazy books who are out to ripoff the little guy ...

But Chester is right - if you are looking for a fair game and some integrity look somewhere else besides Betmaker ...

[PEPOCAS]

i am not welcomed at betmaker. i made three wagers and then i was ejected. i assume they think i'm dangerous.

[Chester]

Cons, first off apologies for the CAPS LOCK..
Secondly for myself and others that I have always been associated with,PAYMENT was always the major concern...Some books out there do not pay! When you deal with a bank normally speaking they are insured by FDIC in the states that is. Therefore someone is standing up for you that you don't even know. You say play only with solid books what is the makeup of a SOLID BOOK? Do you know yourself...Ever hear the saying " Every customer is solid and good until they overextend themselves and go bad." On the subject of "SYNDICATE PLAY" Scott says "Bookie gives customer a line player either plays or passes." He/she at this time is in control. S_it or get off of the pot so to speak. Whether or not to be considered talent or just public money as we sometimes profile the customer base and making a wager they still have to play the game.........................................Big money, I have a question for you have you have you ever been given a line then when you decided to make a play heard the clerk tell you I'm sorry sir that game is on hold or that game is moving...If the answer to this is no, then more than likely you are dealing with a good outfit. To answer your question of using something in your favor; hey if you have the time, money and effort to put into this test the waters for yourself but do us all a favor post the results for us here so we can all read it...But what if they happen to move the lines while you are doing all this double-checking...You might get what the little boy shot at and missed and s_it at and hit...Don't let yourself be a victim of circumstance................................. MLS, I'm sorry but I do not think that I mentioned anything about ripping off the small players...Excuse me but is someone twisting your arm and making you place wagers that you do not want at halftime or at the end of the game.Maybe it would not hurt you to try and see this from the other side of the fence. You make the people on this side sound like they are stealing.I would also like to add that I at no time said anything of sorts about the integrity of this operation.










[This message has been edited by Chester (edited 01-26-2000).]

[AussieVamp2]

BigMoney, not sure if they might not take a dim view of one person holding multiple accounts under different names? Although nothing wrong with using aliases, depending on where you are from.

However, no reason partners/acquaintances/spouses/friends could not do that and take advantage

[Cons]

Chester buddy, although you are relatively new to this forum I have already conversed with you for advice on smtp mail and have found you to be a stand up guy.

But believe me, geting paid is no longer an issue. I feel like I have been repeating this over and over now. But I understand what you mean. Hey, I have been to the edge and back. Me and PaulieDV worked overtime to shut down a joint that was ripping-off people left and right. That as a few years back and I have never been in that situation since.

It's not a nice experience to get stiffed, and I'm sure there are many out there who still have this one their mind more than anything else.

But frankly, there are about 15 books that I could recommend where your local bank would sooner go bust than them. I can share those opinions with you, although in addition to those I mention there might be twice as many other solid books that I would leave out. And I would not be leaving them out for any reason other than the fact that I have not played with them yet.
So just because I don't mention a book doesn't mean that it isn't a top-class, solid book.

If I had to mention a top three of financially solid and well-run books, I would name the following (in alphabetical order): Intertops, Sportingbet, Victor Chandler.

Obviously a place like William Hill is the most solid book in the world, but so what? You have to look at the picture in general. If Citibank had the best account options and services but someone told you that Bank of America was a more solid bank, would you turn your back on Citibank? Of course not. Once a book attains a certain level of financial safety it no longer matters if another book surpasses that, which is why William Hill will not gain many customers simply because it is the most solid book in the world. It will need to back that up with a top-class betting service in order to be successful.

Chester, tell us which outs you use and we'll tell you if you have to worry about getting paid. I use (in alphabetical order again): Bowmans, Intertops, Sportingbet, and Victor Chandler. All four are as solid as it gets in this industry. I also use half a dozen of other books not listed on the left, yet all mostly cater to the English market.

Anyway, good luck and choose your books wisely!

[BigMoney]

mls, it is more common than you may think for books to offer different lines, depending on their profile of the customer.

No laws/rules against it, but I believe it is ruthless and gouges the player who doesn't spend time shopping lines.

It has to be a big plus for fairness when a book posts the same lines for all players. This is done by explicit policy at some places like ABC Islands, and it can be seen by comparing before/after logging in at such places as William Hill and World Sports Exchange.

[Chester]

Cons, if we continue to converse like this you may have the opportunity to see that when I tell you something it does not need to be backed by the FDIC as your bank does...Though I would like to tell you that one of those four outs that you listed in alphabetical order again owes a friend of mine from the baseball season of 1997 so you be careful and choose your books wisely..Remeber the saying all that glitters isn't gold...But don't forget that he who holds the gold rules...When someone else has some of your gold you can't post it up with the next guy!

[Cons]

Chester, I think I know what you're talking about, though I can't remember which book it referred to.Wasn't this the syndicate thing or something like that? Please inform me how (if ever) this was resolved.

Actually, if you do spread betting in the UK your bets are insured by something similar to the FDIC in the US, as they come under the same regulations as share dealing. But this is only for spread betting.

[kaiz]

Isn't the guest line just that. A line for people who want to check out the sight without an account.You cant bet that line on the guest sight, That line i would guess is an opening line that doesn't take into account any line changes. Just my thought.