Multiple Lines - Our take!

[premiereleague]

Shifty,Mls, BigMoney et all

We do not deal multiple lines, although we have the ability to. We did in the past when we found that there was a greater difference in player patterns. Today we have found that with the amount of information available to everyone both on the net and otherwise we felt that there was little value left in it, certainly not worth the efforts it took to book the lines separately. Today we put out what we feel is the sharpest line and let everyone fire away. My earlier post was primarily a BM's perspective and once again I will say I DO NOT SEE ANYTHING WRONG IF A BOOK IS CHOOSING TO DEAL MULTIPLE LINES. As players you shouldn't either, stay with a book as long as you are happy with the numbers you are getting and the service etc. You are not marrying your BM, just playing into his numbers. When the numbers become useless, move on.

There are some technicalities that must also be considered. I have described the different profile of players earlier, a multiple lineset would allow a BM to balance his action with his wiseguys and let the public do whatever the hell they want.

For those of you who think this is a dogy tactic you are wrong. Every player is betting because he wants to win. The BM is taking bets because he wants the juice off the wagers made. The days of balanced action on an entire game are long gone. However a BM can, if he wishes to take the extra effort, balance sides between Middlers, steamers and genuine Wiseguys. Since no one can control the public betting patterns, a BM shouldn't try to. If a public player wishes to bet the Rams at -7 he will probably do so at -7.5 and even -8. Over the long haul the juice will take effect.

Cons, I think I made a reasonably accurate description of player profiles above. Everyone thinks that if a BM doesn't give you the number you want he is missing out on action. If that were the case we should have offered Rams -6 Jan30 on Bettorsworld no limits. I am sure we would have gotten all the action in the world. A BM must have respect for the numbers and the players he books.

Shifty, volume is not the only issue. Some BMs like dealing the wiseguys, some don't tolerate it. It just takes more effort.

Best wishes

[Cons]

Eddie, I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't saying that you should offer drastically different odds just to get action. My point is that if your line is -2, and I call and you give me -1, then I'll pass, and you won't get the action.

What I don't understand is why you would give the -2 line to others, while you wouldn't want my action on the same line. I thought money is money, and you take it from where it comes. Why not let me take a line that others can, if all this means is that no transaction takes place? This is all hypothetical, as like you said you don't deal double lines.

I appreciate you actually providing your view on this. I'm really trying to catch on to the idea why I wouldn't get the line, while someone else would. What difference does it make who the bet comes from, if the book is willing to take bets at that number?

Also, limits make me wonder as well. If I bet the limit and want more, I understand that the limit is there in the first place to adjust the line before taking further bets.

But if I make a bet and the line stays the same, why wouldn't a book let me bet more, if they'd gladly take action from hundreds of others on exactly the same line. Why limit me if the line stays the same and they still want action on the game?

[This message has been edited by Cons (edited 02-05-2000).]

[premiereleague]

Cons

Your question is a fair one and I hope my analogy will help. Limits on taking wagers may be likened to a Bank making loans. If a player has been designated to be sharp for whatever reason whether it be his frequency of wins, or because he follows steam wagers etc., the BM should respect him. The BM should then not allow that player to run away with the whole store. Like wise a Bank would not expose itself by letting one customer borrow too much of their lending capital.

If a player is designated to be recreational (public) most books will let that player wager whatever he wishes.

Hope this helps

[Cons]

Eddie, it might just be me being used to British sportsbooks. Over here, a number is a number and anyone can play it. They would never prevent me from betting a number if they would take action on that same number from elsewhere. For them it doesn't make a difference who plays; if they want action at a given number then it doesn't matter who provides it.

Otherwise it would be like a store telling me I can't buy this VCR at 199.99, but letting others buy it at this price. Sportsbooks should be in the business of selling at a given price to whoever is willing to buy.

Limits are practically nonexistent over here as well. It's why when you call a major British bookie and ask for the limit they tell you 5 pounds Sterling or something like that. You then ask explain that you mean the upper limit, and the guy freezes. It's simply something that isn't asked, because if you want to bet a few hundred thousand you can do so.

I think books like BlueSq.com have the perfect solution. There is a limit of course, say $1500, and once you bet it you can't bet again for five minutes. After that, you can hit the limit again.

It's simply incomprehensible for books here to prevent you from betting a game at a given number if they would let others bet it. If they still want the action, you can keep betting as much as you want. The only catch is that you can only bet the limit once every five minutes, giving them time to move the line if they feel they need to do so. And if they feel the line is right, and that they still want more action at this number, you can keep firing away...

Makes sense to me. They have a line, and they want as much action on the game as possible. So there are no limits as to how much you can bet.

If the action is one-sided, the line will eventually move. But you can keep firing away as much as you want if you still like the number, because those numbers are out there to attract as much action as possible. And whether it's your money or someone else's makes no difference at all...

[Skybook]

Premiereleague ( Eddie)

I loved this whole post. You remind me of me. As far as none of the other offshores post you have seen why they dont. Look what happens. You gave an honest opinion.Sometimes that isnt worth anything in this business. I loved the part about dont worry I wont post anymore. Thats how I feel sometimes. I am sure you see what happens to me when I stand up to someone or simply do as you did and express an opinion trying to help the readers.
Also like you said I couldnt agree more. It is irrelevant how many lines a book deals. It could be one it could be 20. Each book is free to operate any way they wish. Just as the players are free to play with any book they wish, and play or pass any line they are read.
Good job Eddie
Take care Lance

[premiereleague]

Thanks Lance

It really is unfortunate, I rarely post on this site over controversial issues because somehow it always seems to backfire. In this case however there have been quite a few positive replies. Notwithstanding, this post has certainly gotten quite a bit of attention. I am always happy to answer questions that the players may have obviously with a BM's bias. I just couldn't take reading 75 posts w/out a BM's opinion.

Likewise keep up the good work and strong #s


Cons

Sure we will let someone make another limit play at another #, all day long if he wishes. But I can assure you $1500 is not of concern. Most sharp players will respect the value of the number anyway and will probably take no more than one or two stabs at it.

Take care
Eddie

Eddie

[freak]

I want to throw my 2 cents in.....

I deal with several books,premier and skybook are not 1 of them so this is a biased post on my end.

I handicap games, I go look for the lines that are posted. If I see what I want I bet it. If I don't I pass.

I could care a less if they deal me 40 different lines. It is my choice to take it or leave it.

Simple as that. Will I look around for a better line..... sure I will.

If it is out there it is out there.

I don't think I would be labeled # 1 at all. The only teams I root for, are the ones I have a ticket on.

Do I look at the free lines so to speak, that you can look at like a guest....Sure then I dont have to log in.

Do I notice differences sure sometimes, but again tis my choice.

If the book had nothing but winners betting there, they would be no longer. Give me a book that does business to make $$$, I am there.

My bottom line is if I win, I want paid. I don't want to worry if they get hit with 4 zillion bucks on Team A and team a wins big.

The gambling industry is like no other business. There is 100's of choices out there.

If you don't like double dealt then move on elsewhere. Let the rest of get what we want....

Paid

Good luck to all in their endeavours win or lose.... Same goes to the books.

Personal thanks goes to premier for having testicular fortitude to come out and say what others won't.

For this I will be looking over your book to see if I like it, and if so you will be hearing from me.

FREAK

[Tom0Co]

Good topic as the other side of the counter rarely wants to admit this occurs.

And sure, the book has every right to deal whatever line they choose. However the player must recognize this and the plain fact that his book is making an extra effort to beat him. From a player's standpoint it's time to consider another out where softer lines/unadjusted lines may be available.

Been there and have gone through this. It usually starts with, we've got a new VIP number for you to call, or they set up a new account to better improve their service to you. Another tatic that's used is the phone delay... where they put you on hold and check all the line moves/injuries and adjust the lines before giving them you. In the case of local outs they try to close the time "window" you can call into and limit some of your options/plays and there is always dropping the player's limit taking less exposure.

Eddie you say Premiere doesn't deal multiple lines and I'll take your word for it, but you sure have had some thoughts on it In any case tho I'd say once you know your up against the 11 to 10 PLUS book adjustments, with all the available books today it's time to move that account to a new out, and rotating your accounts may not be a bad idea.

[Cons]

Eddie, the $1500 was around the last limit which I could remember. I think it was 1000 pounds sterling, so about $1600. But it's just a five-minute limit though...

I appreciate you coming here and offering your views. It seems a lot of sportsbooks are staying away from these multiple-line-dealing threads, treating them like fire.

Freak, with a well-balanced book the bookie should care less about which side wins, and who chose the winner and who didn't. With the book balanced, it makes no difference. But then this is a utopian scenario...

[mikren]

Cons -

With regards to British books having virtually no limits -

I'm not here to mention any names, but I have had my limits cut severely at a couple of major British books - sometimes as low as $150. I haven't asked but I'm sure these aren't the limits for their other players. Originally, I was permitted to bet much more, but it seems they are not willing to take heavy action from me any more. The amounts seem to be at their whim as well. I will ask for certain amount on a particular game and they will put me on hold and then come back and say, "we can let you have $250 on this game." Sometimes its less, sometimes its more, but it comes across as completely arbitrary as to what my limit is. I originally thought they were just limiting me on steam games, but now it's apparent it's on anything I try to bet - even when a better line is available elsewhere. In fact I've easily had more problems with the Britsh books than I've had elsewhere - with the two main problems being
changing the line after I have given them the bet and offering very low limits.

[BigMoney]

This is sad to hear. I thought perhaps the big British BMs were going to out-class the Carribean books, when it comes to dealing similar lines/limits to all players equally.

[mikren]

Sad? Not from my point of view (which is why I'm not mentioning names). These books could have simply asked me to leave, if they wanted to. If a book feels they need to limit my action or give me another line to maintain their business (and ensure everyone gets paid) that's more than fine with me. I just wanted to point out that practices such as using more than one line, reducing limits, etc. seem to be widely used, even among British bookmakers (at least the ones I've used). If I stop getting value at these places I will just move on to other books.

[randyrohm]

William Hill will take $250 on college hoops, won't offer college totals and will not allow me to play parlays (because I hit a few in baseball). Thats playing it tight, butif thats what they have to do, you make the rules and I will adapt to them.

[Hamhog]

Limits are much better than 40 cent ties lose lines. I wonder how many $250 bets it would take to take W. Hill down?

[Cons]

Well, dealing with a place like William Hill is like dealing with an industry giant. Look at Microsoft and you'll see what I mean. Big is not always best.

With regards to limits I actually mean the betting shops in England. William Hill has people walking in and betting tens of thousands, once in a while a few hundred thousand. But online it's an entirely different story, and so far I've heard nothing but negative comments about them. They need to get their act together or they'll be left behind.

I actually don't bet with Will Hill. I use books like Intertops, Sportingbet, and a couple others, all of which are top quality book of the highest standard. Neither has ever dealt me a double line, and I have always considered myself a happy customer with these books. Never had a problem with limits either, but then I bet other sports, where steam or syndicate aren't of concern to the sportsbook.