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**PabloSonLoco** · 05-31-2000, 03:49 PM

I am dying to see someone show me why Ruiz has a legitimate shot at winning. It seems like you are right on the money with me, Sonny. At 3-1 odds I am laying easily 10x more down than I have ever bet on a single event in my life.

**Sonny Palermo** · 05-31-2000, 04:39 PM

Pablo, I would have to strongly recommend not laying 10x your normal bet size on anything. But then again, I've done it myself in boxing. I made a killing on Holyfield/Tyson and I would like to see Evander call it a career (I always feel a loyalty to ANYONE who makes me a bundle!)
The fights are where I make my largest wagers but it is also the riskiest (is that a word?) sport because of all the shenanigans (shenanigans? - nice way of saying it's often predetermined)(predetermined? nice way of saying IT'S FIXED!!).
In boxing, the rule is simple - follow the money trail. The heavyweights always bring in the most cash but it's a pretty depleted rank these days. If, I should say WHEN, Holyfield beats Ruiz he will have a 3rd of the title and there's talk of the third fight with Tyson, the winner getting a shot at Lewis to once again combine the titles. Tyson/Holyfield is the biggest $ match out there, and the winner against Lewis will top that. King is in Evanders corner and that's usually where the money is so your wager on Holyfield should be safe.
I'll be ringside at the fight, rooting hard for Evander (and your play!).
Thanks for responding.......

**slots** · 05-31-2000, 05:19 PM

The fight is canceled(Evander says he's got a boo-boo)

[This message has been edited by slots (edited 05-31-2000).]

**PabloSonLoco** · 06-01-2000, 10:22 AM

There goes my summer income, Holyfield has bruised ribs and the fight has been called off.

**Junior44** · 06-01-2000, 03:01 PM

Sonny - Read your write-up on the De La Hoya/Mosely fight and I thought for a second there you had a change of heart. I followed you all the way to your pick: De La Hoya. I'll do a write up in the other forum in the next couple of days or so but until then, a couple of comments. First of all, I'm sure you know that I'm on Mosely. In my opinion, Oscar's two greatest attributes are his heart and his hand-speed, and for the first time in his career he fights a guy who is quicker AND has a bigger heart. Mosely is a flawless fighter. He has no weaknesses. I believe he holds the edge in hand-speed, footwork (big edge), ability to cut off the ring, defensive skills, heart, stamina, and motivation. He also is the most ferocious body puncher I've ever seen in the lower weight classes. You pointed out that Mosely will be fighting a bigger man, which is true. But really, this is Mosley's natural weight. Making weight has been a struggle, and I think come fight night, this won't be a factor. I found it very interesting that you mentioned that you had seen Oscar in the past couple of weeks or so, as I have had the opportunity to see Mosley several times in the past month or so. He sometimes trains at the Sports Club in Irvine, and the one thing that I got out of seeing him was: This guy is HUNGRY. Ferociously hungry. I'll save some of the juicier details until later, but I like Mosley by TKO in the mid to late rounds.

On a side note (and this has nothing to do with my view of the fight), Mosley is, without a doubt, the most humble athlete I have ever met. The nicest guy you could ever want to meet, completely unassuming.

**PabloSonLoco** · 06-01-2000, 03:45 PM

Do you guys know where I can find an online sportsbook with some boxing lines? I see the same "Holyfield/Ruiz", "Mosely/De la Hoya" on all of them. I want to know if fights such as Tua, Golota, Tyson, and even the guys in the lower weight have action on any offshore books. List some places I can go and I will appreciate it immensely.

**Sonny Palermo** · 06-01-2000, 05:43 PM

JR44, THANKS for posting an opposite opinion. As I said earlier today elswhere - IF WE ALL LIKE THE SAME SIDE THERE IS LESS VALUE IN THESE FORUMS (unless of course we're all correct!)
It is when DIFFERENT stats/opinions/reasonings are given that these forums truly become of value;
we are all wise enough and big enough to make our own decisions so the more facts/opinions we can gather to do so helps trememndously.
but, as for this fight....you're wrong!!!!(just kidding)
1 of the best/fun parts about being a boxing fan is debating who will beat who.
HUGE edge in hunger to Shane, and foot speed. And I'm not sure if you menioned it but but big edge in head movement also. He is tough to find. I think Shane is the real thing but the money trail says Oscar and Tito again and I think Shane is a little old (?) to be 'just getting to his natural weight" - I heard that argument used to make a case for Ike over Vargas, didn't work there. I think power beats speed here, alhough I expect Oscar to get his ears boxed off early, forcing him to come out of his usual cautious self and start trying to land a bomb.
We are both in agreement that it doesn't go the distance and there is good 'dog value on the Under out there so I can wish us both luck on that.
At any rate, we'll pick this up again and as I always say in these things - the good part? One of us will have a winning ticket. Thanks for responding, we'll pick it up again, I goota run now.
Pablo, sorry, I don't use off shores so I have no helpful info on lines for you. In Vegas, smaller fights usually have odds only at the host site.

**Sonny Palermo** · 06-01-2000, 05:46 PM

ps -I forgot, you're correct. Shane (and Butterbean as well) is 1 of the nicest guys you can meet; humble, courteous, giving of their time to the public and fans. There is something good in being around someone who you can tell honestly is enjoying what he is doing, not just for publicity's sake.....

**reno** · 06-01-2000, 06:43 PM

I don't follow the fight game too closely nowadays, and I only watch the Big fights. However, in a recent article in the LV Review Journal, a common opponent--whose name I don't recall--of both De
La Hoya and Mosely picked De La Hoya because he has greater punching power. The guy said that De La Hoya hits so much harder than Mosely that it will be no contest.

**Sonny Palermo** · 06-01-2000, 10:45 PM

Reno, thanks for taking time to respond. The size/power angle is why I look for Oscar, that and the 'biggest paycheck ever' for Shane angle.
It doesn't help my case that the RJ is with my selection though(even if it is relayed 2nd hand by a common opponent).
Article written by either of 2, Royce Feour or Kevin Iole, neither impress me as a writer or as knowledgeable, just connected. My favorite Kevin quote -
"DeLahoya-Quartey was not only the greatest welter weight bout ever, it may have been the greatest bout ever in any weight class"
Huh???!!!
THAT is how you get the promoters to sit you in the front row!!!

**reno** · 06-02-2000, 12:09 AM

Sonny, it is unbelievable that anyone would even consider the De La Hoya/Quartey fight as great, let alone as possibly the greatest ever. The writer must be punch drunk.

Although De La Hoya is an outstanding fighter, I don't think he would have stood a chance against Leonard or Hearns. Oscar lacks fluidity. Kind of reminds me of Alexis Arguello. Guys like Leonard and Aaron Pryor, on the other hand, just flow.

**AussieVamp2** · 06-02-2000, 02:05 AM

Sonny, interesting stuff

thanks!

**Junior44** · 06-02-2000, 02:41 AM

Damn, it's nice to be talking boxing. Hard to come by these days. Reno, I concur. De La Hoya/Quartey was a decent scrap, but hardly great. (A fight I believe Ike won BTW). Aaron Pryor. Now, there's a warrior for ya.....The recent Barrera-Morales fight. Now, THAT was a great fight. Haven't seen many better. Oscar and Mosley have had 3 common opponents (not counting the infamous Narciso Valenzuela whom they both fought back in the early 90's): John John Molina, Wilfredo Rivera, and Jesse James Leija.

Leija: Mosley-KO9 DeLaHoya-KO2
Molina: Mosley-KO8 DeLaHoya-W12
Rivera: Mosley-KO10 DeLaHoya-KO8

Sonny, I wish I could agree with your power advantage for Oscar being a factor, but I just don't see it. I do agree that Oscar holds the edge in power, but in order for that to be an advantage, he has to connect and that is going to be much more difficult than it was against Trinidad. You say power over speed. I say speed over power. Agreed, makes for a great debate, and that's half the allure of boxing....However, something worth noting: 5 of De La Hoya's last 11 fights have gone the distance (including the loss to Tito, and the ahem....."wins" over Quartey and Whitaker.) Mosley meanwhile has KO'd 10 straight and 23 of 24. I do, however, agree with you about the "almighty dollar" factor. Trinidad-De La Hoya II would be a behemouth. All I hope for is that it is decided in the ring. Mosley, despite being one of the most skilled boxers around, is still a relatively unknown. And as you and I agree that Mosley is a class human being, I believe the public would grow quite fond of him......

Sonny, by any chance would you know the current status of a fighter by the name of Courage Tshabalala? I attended his first fight and followed him on USA fight night for several years. At one point he was 19-0 (17KO's) and got caught with a haymaker by some stiff. He followed that loss with several convincing wins before being KO'd by Oleg Maskaev, which is hardly anything to be ashamed about. This was around mid 1998 and I haven't heard a peep about him since.

**Sonny Palermo** · 06-03-2000, 06:08 PM

Reno - you're correct, of course Oscar/Ike was not a great fight. Anyone can reach this conclusion via simple math - fans booed the fighters at the end of 3 different rounds (for not mixing it up). 3 rounds of a 12 rounder means 25% of the bout rated boo's! Hardly qualifications for being called 'great'. However, calling it 1 of the greatest in your RJ column, as Iole did, ENSURES front row seating, interviews w/fighters, etc. It's called kissin promoter butt. Also, you're right again - Oscar gets KO'd early by either Ray L. or Tommy H.

JR44 - I'll be ringside at Tua fight at MGM tonight, I'll ask around the press box about Courage T. and see what I can find out for you.
1 more thing Jr44 - we obviously have a difference of opinion on Oscar/Shane. Shall we settle this like men, with a wager? A White House cheese steak, loser buys? Or perhaps a running wager as we will surely disagree again someday? A dollar for the running wager? Let me know!
Aussie - you're welcome but I owed you one anyway - you taught me a new one about a year ago that still cracks me up. It was an Aussie slang - "dunnyroll" as in a certain arsewipe known as L*SN.

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