THE PAST POST RULE

[REALITY]

DUKEY,
THIS IS FOR YOU.

ANY BET PLACED AFTER AN EVENT STARTS IS NO BET AND THE EVENT IS GRADED A PUSH.

IT DOSEN'T MATTER IF IT'S TAKEN ON THE PHONE OR PLACED OVER THE INTERNET.

IT'S LIKE A TIME BET FOR HORSES.

THE SCHEDULED START TIME FOR A SPORTING EVENT IS LIKE THE POST TIME FOR A RACE AT THE RACETRACK.

IF A BET IS PLACED ON EITHER AFTER THE EVENT HAS STARTED IT IS NO BET.

THE REASON SOMEONE MAY NOT BE NOTIFIED UNTIL LATER IS BECAUSE THE PAST POST BET MAY NOT COME TO LIGHT UNTIL THE EVENT IS RECONCILED.

WHEN THE CORRECTED START TIME IS PUT IN, THE COMPUTER RECOGNIZES IT WAS PLACED AFTER THE EVENT STARTED.

IT IS NO BET ,GRADED AS A PUSH AND THE FUNDS RETURNED TO YOUR ACCOUNT.

THIS IS THE RULE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME.

THIS RULE BECOMES EVEN MORE IMPORTANT IN EUROPEAN SPORTS WHERE START TIME AND DAYS OF EVENTS ARE CHANGED LIKE PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR SOCKS.

REALITY

[Dukey]

Reality,

I have no problem with that rule at all, if:

You can guarantee me that it always goes both ways?

Are you 100% positive that all sportsbooks, even these so called "solid" ones always refund both sides of games that are past-posted. Are you sure they don't pick and choose? We will never know. I'd like to think that sportsbooks could post these past posted, and bad line games that were refunded on their website, so that nobody feels cheated. But they won't, and I won't even waste my time asking them to do it. This would be a positive step towards books coming totally clean on wagers that were cancelled on their part, but it won't happen. Is this too much too ask for?

Give me a so-called "solid" book, and if I ever see a past posting opportunity, I will pound the losing side. Let us see how easily I get me bet refunded, or if it is even refunded at all.

Let's sign a contract that makes you liable for my losses should a "solid" book choose not to refund my losing past posted wager.

We would both like to think that all books are completely honest, but to me, money is money. The sportsbook wants your money, and you want theirs.

Temptation goes both ways. There will be dishonest bettors looking to take every possible advantage, whether ethical or not, and the same can be said for the sportsbook.

A bettor sees a chance to intentionally scam a book, and his eyes bug out, and he starts salivating. Who is to say that the sportsbooks don't relish the fact that they can cancel bets whenever they feel like it, and for their benefit if they so chose.

I would just like more safety measures for the bettor, and of course, the sportsbook is entitled to their safety measures.

If there ever were to be an "online bettors union", these are some of the things that I would like to change. I don't think you would see too many bettors complain if these ideas came to fruition, because it is simply for their best interests.

What we really need is a bookmaker, or sportsbook owner to debate with, or slug it out with. lol

[REALITY]

DUKEY,
TAKE ALL YOUR MONEY,DIVIDE IT EQUALLY,AND SEND IT TO THE FOLLOWING BOOKS AND THEN GO TO SLEEP AND NEVER WORRY THAT THE WINNERS WILL GET PUSHES AND THE LOSERS WILL HAVE THEIR MONEY SCOOPED UP.

C.R.I.S.

OLYMPIC

CASABLANCA

SPORTINGBET.COM

BETMAKER.COM

ABC ISLANDS

SPORTBET

ISLAND CASINO

THESE ARE BOOKS I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM ENDORSING...

I HAVE VISITED ALL THEIR OPERATIONS AND HAVE CONSULTED WITH THEM ON SEVERAL OCASSIONS.

THESE HOUSES ARE SOLID AS SEARS...

[Segundo]

You know what Reality, now I have to get involved. Who is to say when the event starts? This rule of yours sucks because it gives these bookies an excuse to cancel a wager. If their system accepts the wager, barring any special rules from them about betting close to post, then it's a bet buddy. Please stop with this business of yours about starting threads about the PAST POST RULE and then ending up giving us a list of who I can send my money to before being tucked in to bed. Half of those bookies on your list would NEVER give me my money back if I bet two minutes into a game when my team is down 2 runs. I know the same people that you do, I have worked with some of them also, I respect and share your opinion on many topics in these forums but on this topic your rule would give these guys more of a license to steal. If anybody is worried about getting past posted then they should do what Skybook does, take the game down 3-4 minutes before it started. How do you think one of Skybook's partners made his money in the first place in this business, past posting baby.

Was it Rosatti's Lemon ice by any chance?

[REALITY]

SEGUNDO,
WHAT SEEMS TO BE YOUR PROBLEM?

THIS IS NOW AND HAS BEEN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME,THE RULE REGARDING WHAT IS AND IS AND IS NOT A BET ACCORDING TO THE TIME THE EVENT STARTED.

IN THE CASE AS DISCUSSED HERE WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT MINUTES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AN EVENT THAT HAD BEEN CONCLUDED WHEN THE WAGERS WERE PLACED.

I MERELY RAN DOWN THE BOOKS AS A COURTESY FOR DUKEY BECAUSE HE IS SO WORRIED THAT HE WOULDN'T GET A FAIR SHAKE IN THIS SITUATION.

NOBODY WOULD HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT HAPPENING WITH THE EIGHT BOOKS LISTED ABOVE.

YOU WANT TO PICK ONE OUT AND DEBATE IT?

JUST OPEN THE THREAD AND I'LL SEE YOU THERE.

I'M NOT JEOPARDIZING MY WORD BY ENDORSING ANY BOOK THAT I DIDN'T VISIT PERSONALLY AND HAVE MET THE PRINCIPALS PERSONALLY.

I'M GIVING THE POOR GUY WHO IS POSTING UP OFF-SHORE FOR THE FIRST TIME THE BENEFIT OF MY FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE WITH THESE BOOKS.

I HAVE NO AGENDA HERE EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT I HATE SEEING PEOPLE GET STIFFED AND NOBODY IS GETTING STIFFED IN THESE PLACES.

YOU WANT TO CHALLENGE THAT,OPEN THE THREAD.

AS FOR WHAT YOU DO OR DON'T KNOW,I DON'T THINK SKY'S PARTNER WOULD LIKE THAT INFORMATION IN A PUBLIC FORUM ESPECIALLY IF IT'S TRUE.

FOR HIM OR ANYONE ELSE THAT MADE THEIR MONEY THAT WAY,THEY SHOULD DIE BROKE!

REALITY

[Dukey]

Segundo,

That is a good point.

If someone bets a game a minute after the supposed start time, is this past posting?

What about five minutes, ten, ....., but since the book can cancel wagers whenever they feel like, this leaves the bettor open to getting ripped off.

Reality, I really wish you could answer my question as to why books don't want to post cancelled or refunded games on their websites, with the reasons why they felt they were justified. Would this not be a solution in eliminating the chance that the sportsbook is picking and choosing which games to cancel, and that BOTH SIDES will definitely be refunded? This is in the best interests of the bettor, and not the sportsbook, that is why it won't happen.

And as far as tennis matches go, golf tee times, etc..., the start times are approximate. Most of the time, the start times will get pushed back because of slow play or unexpected delays.

Let's say Sampras/Agassi have a scheduled start time of 2:30 because the first match is at 12:00. The sportsbook makes a mistake and posts Sampras/Agassi at 3:30. The match before theirs goes 5 sets, and takes 4 hours to finish.

Are bettors that bet the Sampras/Agassi match after 2:30 past posting? I guess it was the bettors responsibility to know that this match was scheduled to go off at 2:30, so if the sportsbook decides that this is past posting, then tough luck to the winners.

The funny thing is that sportsbooks will tell you that a bet was past posted, but they can't or won't give you a reliable source to verify their stance. Just take their word for it.

Reality, I am with one of those books above. I would rate them a 6 out of 10 overall.

[Ronbets]

Reality,

Where does one obtain a corroborated off time for a tennis match? Im not referring to this latest obvious larceny attempt. How about a harness race that isnt simultcasted? Do we take the word of a cynical BM saying "Hell for him to win he must have past posted us. NO ACTION."

We are not playing on a level field when we are at the mercy of the person holding the pot.

[mls]

Dukey is right.

Afterall we have seen how many posters come in here and complain that their winning bet was cancelled because it was made 3 minutes after the game started ...

Oops, no ... never has been such a complaint here ...

Well, on other forums there have been how many such complaints ...

Oops, again, no ... never such a complaint ...

So the only complaint any of us has actually ever seen is a case like Capper's (defended by Dukey) ... 3 bets placed after the game ended!

On this issue the books have a sterling record ... it is the guys like Capper who are dishonest ... plain and simple.

[Dukey]

mls,

I am not defending capper, so give it a rest.

I simply want to insure that sportsbooks always refund both sides of wagers that they deem to have been past posted. That is why I'd like them to post these refunded/cancelled bets on their websites, so that even the losers are made aware that their bets should have been cancelled.

I want to place more onus on the sportsbooks to run a tight ship, and avoid these bad line/starting time errors.

A lot of people don't realize the power that sportsbooks have when they can freely cancel wagers at their discretion. I would just like more safety measures and guidelines for the bettors, to ensure that they don't get stiffed.

If you don't want that mls, then that's fine, but don't try to cloud the issues that I am trying to bring up.

[AYCE]

You know, beating a dead horse is the most easiest thing in the world.

Ronbets, here you go.

From Wimbledon.org

Court 18 - 12.00 noon START
1. Gentlemen's Singles - 3rd Rnd.
Marc Rosset (SUI) def. Tommy Haas (GER) 6/4 3/6 6/3 3/6 9/7

I beleive the time is London time and it should be equal to 6:00CT/7:00ET, Capper called to make his bet on 8:00CT (according to Olympic).

Also, the 1st set took 41 minutes to finish!

The results was Rosset won by 6-4.

You can get the above info and the live score update at the same site.

So Mr. Capper actually have 1 hour and 19 minutes to think about how much should he "unload" on this "1st set bet" before he made the phone call!

Got it?

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dukey:
[B]Segundo,

That is a good point.

If someone bets a game a minute after the supposed start time, is this past posting?

MANY BOOKS MYSELF INCLUDED ADD TIME TO GAMES WE ARE WATCHING ON T.V.
I AM GIVING YOU THE LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF THE RULE AND THE SPIRIT OF THE RULE.

What about five minutes, ten, ....., but since the book can cancel wagers whenever they feel like, this leaves the bettor open to getting ripped off.

BOOKS LIKE CRIS AND CARIB MAY GO FURTHER INTO THE DECK REGARDING TIMES AND THEY WILL HONOR YOUR BET.

Reality, I really wish you could answer my question as to why books don't want to post cancelled or refunded games on their websites, with the reasons why they felt they were justified. Would this not be a solution in eliminating the chance that the sportsbook is picking and choosing which games to cancel, and that BOTH SIDES will definitely be refunded? This is in the best interests of the bettor, and not the sportsbook, that is why it won't happen.

IT'S NOT A BAD IDEA,BUT WHAT ABOUT CONFIDENTIALITY REGARDING YOUR WAGERING HABITS AND MORE IMPORTANTLY YOUR P.I.N.#?

And as far as tennis matches go, golf tee times, etc..., the start times are approximate. Most of the time, the start times will get pushed back because of slow play or unexpected delays.

WHEN I'M IN THE BOX ANY EVENT I CAN'T WATCH COMES OFF THE BOARD AT THE SCHEDULED TIME THAT I HAVE BEEN ADVISED ABOUT,THE ONLY EXCEPTION IS IF I CAN WATCH IT OR HAVE SOMEONE CALL ME WHEN IT STARTS.


Let's say Sampras/Agassi have a scheduled start time of 2:30 because the first match is at 12:00. The sportsbook makes a mistake and posts Sampras/Agassi at 3:30. The match before theirs goes 5 sets, and takes 4 hours to finish.

Are bettors that bet the Sampras/Agassi match after 2:30 past posting? I guess it was the bettors responsibility to know that this match was scheduled to go off at 2:30, so if the sportsbook decides that this is past posting, then tough luck to the winners.

AS LONG AS I COULD VERIFY OR HAVE A PLAYER VERIFY TO ME THAT HIS BET WAS PLACED BEFORE THE MATCH BEGAN I WOULD HONOR HIS AND ALL BETS PLACED BEFORE THE MATCH STARTED.

I WOULD NOT HONOR ANY WAGERS PLACED AFTER THE EVENT STARTED.

The funny thing is that sportsbooks will tell you that a bet was past posted, but they can't or won't give you a reliable source to verify their stance. Just take their word for it.

YOU WOULD BE SUPRISED HOW MUCH INFORMATION IS OUT ON THE NET THAT CAN VERIFY START TIMES OF THESE EVENTS.

Reality, I am with one of those books above. I would rate them a 6 out of 10 overall.

I WOULD ONLY SAY TO YOU THE EIGHT BOOKS LISTED ABOVE HAVE OUTSTANDING REPUTATIONS IN THIS INDUSTRY THAT THEY WOULD NOT JEOPARDIZE BY GIVING A PLAYER AN UNFAIR DECISION IN THE HOPES OF SCAMMING A FEW EXTRA DOLLARS...

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ronbets:
[B]Reality,

RONBETS,
HAVING READ YOUR POSTS IN THE PAST IF I REMEBER CORRECTLY YOU ARE IN SOME WAY AFFILIATED WITH GAMBLING.

IF I'M WRONG PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGY.


Where does one obtain a corroborated off time for a tennis match? Im not referring to this latest obvious larceny attempt.

THE INTERNET HAS A WEALTH OF SITES YOU CAN GET THIS KIND OF INFORMATION FROM.
NOT TO MENTION ACCESSING LOCAL PAPERS ON THE NET WHERE THE EVENT IS TAKING PLACE.


How about a harness race that isnt simultcasted? Do we take the word of a cynical BM saying "Hell for him to win he must have past posted us. NO ACTION."

AGAIN,THE INTERNET,ACCESS THE TRACK'S SITE IF THEY HAVE ONE,THE LOCAL PAPER IF IT'S ON THE WEB.

We are not playing on a level field when we are at the mercy of the person holding the pot.

I WOULD NOT SAY YOU ARE WRONG BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHO YOU ARE DEALING WITH.
JUST THINK OF THE CONCEPT OF SENDING A STRANGER MONEY TO HANDLE YOUR ACTION AND PAY YOU ON DEMAND.
I'M IN THIS BUSINESS AND I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE IT.
AS A KID I HAD 3O OUTS COAST TO COAST AND COULD HAVE BET THE MOON.

[bbuster]

REALITY- As far as baseball betting what is your experience regarding when betting a baseball game, how much time is considered past posting. Some Donbest books for example for a 705 game you have till 708 or 710. Last year SKYBOOK was one of these and now they take it down right at 705. Often the pitchers are warming up and the game does'nt really start for 5 minutes or so. Some of my online books have the games time stamped 2-5 minutes after the scheduled time 707 and 710 respectively in the above example. In my experience with online betting if the bet goes through and gets accepted it is valid and is not "Pastposting". With these same books if I try to bet and I miss the cutoff time I get a message saying something like " event has started".
Can you also differentiate between online and phone betting.

[REALITY]

BBUSTER,
I MAKE SURE THE SERVER CLOCK IS IN SINC WITH ATOMIC TIME AND A 7:05 GAME GOES DOWN EXACTLY AT 7:05.

IF I'M WATCHING IT THE MINUTE THE FIRST PITCH IS THROWN,THE GAME IS OFF...

E-SPORTS SHUTS A GAME OFF INSTANTANOEOUSLY AT THE TOUCH OF A BUTTON AND NO WAGER, INTERNET OR PHONE CAN BE ENTERED INTO THE SYSTEM AFTER THAT VIA THE OPERATORS.

A SUPERVISOR WITH AN ACCESS CODE COULD PLACE A WAGER AFTER THEY GAME HAS STARTED AND IT WOULD APPEAR ON THE DAILY CHANGE REPORT.

[Ronbets]

AYCE thanks for info.

Reality,

I was in your occupation for years. Stopped cold 17 years ago when I realized I couldnt move the money the way I wanted to. As you stated perfectly, you had to win twice--beat the business and then get paid. It wasnt fun rooting against yourself in certain situations. Replacing broken doors and ransacked apartments wore me out. Today, I play primarily props and gimmicks.

Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us veterans and kids in this forum.--Ron

P.s. Does the name Gene C (deceased) #101 from back East ring a bell?