Been thinking about this for a while!!!

[Dot Mix]

Once upon a time not long ago none of us small time players were much concerned with line scalps or even middles for that matter. We had a few people we would call a half hour before game time. Sometimes I'd call in couple minutes late and my book would be doing me a big favor by taking my half dollar play even though post was an hour away. His office was open from 6:30-7:30 PM, Saturdays and Sundays noon to 1 and back at 3PM for an hour and then gone. I'm sure most of the players remember that. You know----the corner bookie that everyone thought of as a friend. "Wanna get down a play on the SuperBowl Joe---I got a close friend whose a bookie".

Now---we have off-shore books everywhere and DON BEST line feeds simultaneously advertising "live lines" for 20 or so sports books at one time. For many of us who used to call just a few local guys and bet only with them things have really changed.

What I can't understand is all this stuff about bookies being upset with scalpers, buybacks, betting steam etc etc etc. When a bookmaker posts a "live line" on the screen or quotes it over the phone he is pinning a big billboard on his chest that says to me, the bettor----"PLEASE COME TO MY STORE AND BUY MINNESOTA AT -133". Another store on the next position on the feed says: "I've got Minny on sale I'll sell you Minnesota at -125, come on in--- the price is right". Another guy says screw you all-------I've got tooo much money on Minny I'll run a sale on the underdog and make Minnesota -140. If these books all get into bidding wars with each other by adjusting and manipulating their numbers WHY GET UPSET WITH THE SCALPER OR PLAYER WHO HAPPENS TO only accomodate your advertisement for business by simply taking you up on your published offer???????

The problem as I see it is the books not only want the juice which will eventually grind even most decent handicappers out, but are not happy until they systematically beat EVERY individual who plays with them. The player who takes the time to work and shop his lines and have the knowledge to make proper speculations is termed a "wiseguy" and is hated, shut off and abhorred by the books. Why? Because of greed mainly and the bitterness and frustration of knowing there are diligent and sharp individuals out there you will not wipe out financially like you do most of us "suckers". Thats why.

End of vent..........Dot

[reno]

Dot, the big stores don't care. As I pointed out in another thread, if someone lays -120 at a book and takes + 125 later, the book should not care. The book makes money because someone layed -125 and -130, and other guys also probably bet the dog before the favorite hit -135. And if you didn't lay the -120 and take the +125, someone else would. A scalper does not make his money off the books, he makes it off squares and bandwagoners who bet "tweener" numbers.

Obviously, certain offshore books are incompetent and irrational and don't understand logic. And as long as that is the case, they will never hit the big-time.

[bbuster]

I view the Donbest screen the same as I do my AT Financial Screen(stock market). It is a quote service advising me on the current market conditions and at what price's I can trade. The main difference is the stock market is a group of anonymous buyers and sellers. The firm I trade through does'nt care if I am making/losing money, all they want is for me to trade/bet, through me doing this they generate revenue(commission). If you are a stone cold bookmaker without an opinion and without trying to take positions I think you would want to conduct your business like the stock market, one price for all, come and get it, I dont care which way you pick, JUST PICK!

[scott]

Three dead nuts right on posts. This thread should be closed and put in the Hall Of Fame before it gets trashed...Scotty

[REALITY]

DOT,
I'M SURE YOU HAVE HEARD THE EXPRESSION,WHEN IN ROME DO AS THE ROMANS DO.

I'D LIKE TO PARAPHRASE THAT IF I MAY:

WHEN BOOKING IN A HOUSE OF SHARPS,BOOK THE SHARPS LIKE SHARPS SHOULD BE BOOKED.

WHEN BOOKING IN A HOUSE OF POST UP PLAYERS,BOOK THE POST PLAYERS THE WAY THEY SHOULD BE BOOKED.

WHAT THIS MEANS IS WHEN I'M SITTING IN THE BOX IN A PLACE LIKE CRIS WHICH IS A CLEARING HOUSE FOR SHARPS,I'M GOING TO MOVE RIGHT UP AND DOWN WITH THE MONEY AS IT IS BET AND LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY.

WHEN I'M SITTING IN A POST UP SHOP,AN ORIGINATOR OR MOVER CAN'T PLAY ME.

WHY?

BECAUSE THEY ONLY PLAY ME WHEN THEY CAN FILL THE ORDER AT THE NUMBER THEY ARE LOOKING AT?

SO SHOULD I LET THEM PICK OFF THE FILET AND LEAVE THE CARCASS FOR MY REGULAR PLAYERS?

SHOULD I LET THEM LAY THE NUMBER TO FILL THE ORDER AT SAY -3.5 AND MOVE THE LINE TO -4.5 AND WHEN THE GAME LANDS 4 WHAT HAPPENS?

THE MOVER WHO LAYED -3.5 WINS AND THE POOR FOLLOWER WHO LAYED -4.5 LOSES.

WHY SHOULD I OVER EXTEND A BASEBALL NUMBER AND ALLOW A SCALPER TO PLAY ME ONLY WHEN MY NUMBER ALLOWS HIM TO EARN.

I WANT THE PLAYER WHO GIVES ME ALL HIS OTHER ACTION TO SCALP ME LIKE SPRINGSTEEN TICKETS AT THE GARDEN.

HE DESERVES THIS OPPORTUNITY AND CONSIDERATION.

IF I ALLOW MY HOUSE TO BE A HAVEN FOR SCALPERS THEY WILL EAT MY NUMBERS FOR LUNCH SO FAST THAT WHEN THE REGULAR CUSTOMER COMES BACK AFTER HE ALREADY PLAYED THE OTHER SIDE HE WON'T BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THE SCALP BECAUSE A PRO BEAT HIM TO IT.

NOT WITH ME CALLING THE SHOTS.

THE REGULAR EVERYDAY PLAYERS DESERVE TO PLAY AT REASONABLE NUMBERS BECAUSE THEY PLAY EVERYDAY AND I WILL NOT LET THEM BE DENIED THIS OPPOTUNITY BECAUSE SOME MOVER BEAT THEM TO THE NUMBER.

THEY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO PAY THE BILLS IN THESE BIG OFF-SHORE OFFICES.

I STARTED IN THIS BUSINESS IN THE OFFICE THAT WAS C.R.I.S. BEFORE THERE WAS A C.R.I.S.

THE SHARPEST PLAYERS IN THE COUNTRY PLAYED THERE TO A MAN.

THERE WASN'T A RECREATIONAL PLAYER IN THE HOUSE.

YOUR FRIEND,THE DEVIL KNOWS THE OFFICE WELL.

HE CAN CONFIRM THIS ON YOUR NEXT DATE.

WHEN THAT BOOMER FIASCO WAS GOING ON I POSTED A LINE IN ANOTHER FORUM ON YOU VERSUS BOOMER.

DOT MIX-8OO

BOOMER+600

YOU WERE THE FAVORITE THEN AND YOUR STILL A FAVORITE NOW.

ESPECIALLY FOR THE DEV.

REGARDS,
REALITY






[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 07-05-2000).]

[bbuster]

Reality-
I understand your perspective and what your saying makes sense. Do you believe that all sharp players are moving? Are you saying that sharp players are'nt also everyday players? Just cause a player will lay 05 but will pass at 10 does'nt mean he is a mover.
What your saying reminds me of my grocery store analogy where I buy things that are onsale and pass on the nonsale items and the store manager kicks me out and says you cant shop here cause you never pay 2.99 so you cant buy them when they are 1.99. Is this the same? Do you agree/disagree?

[Dot Mix]

REALITY

MY NEXT DATE WITH THE DEVIL WILL BE MY FIRST DATE, AND THAT FIRST DATE ISN'T ABOUT TO EVER HAPPEN. I THOUGHT YOU WEREN'T TOO BAD A GUY UNTIL THAT INNUENDO CRAP. THATS HOW UGLY AND HURTFUL RUMORS BEGIN. IVE BEEN HAPPILY MARRIED FOR MANY YEARS AND I DON'T APPRECIATE THAT SLICK TRASH.

THE DEVIL SHOULD BE AS PISSED AS I AM!!!!!

I'M NOW USING THESE CAPS FOR THE PURPOSE INTENDED .........Dot

[GANGSTEROFLOVE]

IF YOU PUT A NUMBER MOST PEOPLE WHO BET ARE GOING TO EITHER BET OR PASS ISNT THAT THE REASON YOU GUYS PUT YOUR NUMBERS OUT . MAYBE YOU SHOULD PUT UP NEXT TO YOUR ODDS ONLY IF WE FEEL LIKE TAKING YOUR BET. AND IF THIS IS THE CASE WHY CHANGE YOUR ODDS PUT THEM UP IN THE MORNING AND LEAVE THE NUMBER ALONE REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH IS BET.

[REALITY]

Originally posted by Dot Mix:
REALITY

MY NEXT DATE WITH THE DEVIL WILL BE MY FIRST DATE, AND THAT FIRST DATE ISN'T ABOUT TO EVER HAPPEN. I THOUGHT YOU WEREN'T TOO BAD A GUY UNTIL THAT INNUENDO CRAP. THATS HOW UGLY AND HURTFUL RUMORS BEGIN. IVE BEEN HAPPILY MARRIED FOR MANY YEARS AND I DON'T APPRECIATE THAT SLICK TRASH.

THE DEVIL SHOULD BE AS PISSED AS I AM!!!!!

I'M NOW USING THESE CAPS FOR THE PURPOSE INTENDED .........Dot

DOT,
IT WAS A JOKE PURE AND SIMPLE.

MAYBE I HAVE YOU CONFUSED WITH ANOTHER POSTER WHO WAS MAKING JOKES ABOUT TABLE DANCES AND SUCH.

IF THAT WAS NOT YOU ACCEPET MY SINCEREST APOLOGY.

REALITY

[Dot Mix]

Reality

That WAS me but in celebration of SUPER BOWL
Xlll, just out of college. Also exaggerated slightly and in good fun.

You not only got yelled at by me. but also received a world class cyber-slap. I hope it hurt like hell.

Dot

[DoggieStyle]

REALITY you do not talk like a person who has learned this business. You talk like a student of the Art Mantaris school of ducking bets that could make you money if you had a brain. If someone wanted to analize what you write they would not find much help in what you say.

If you had "scalpers who would eat your numbers for lunch"... What you are saying is you are not a good bookmaker right? You can only book suckers right? You are in the wrong business if you think like that. I would hate to have someone with your fear run my office.

Read what Reno wrote here. If you want we can find someone to tutor you and educate you to the real way of booking without fear. You are scared of everyone it seems.

To bettorsworld posters. Don't think good bookies think like this REALITY clown. If they did we would see a POLICE STATE like we have in Las Vegas. Anyone who tried to win would be locked up and have their money stolen!

REALITY to the rescue.......

[This message has been edited by DoggieStyle (edited 07-05-2000).]

[thedevil]

Dot..

Sorry you were offended by Reality's comment.

I thought he meant it as a joke..

Doggie..

I see by your profile your a ticket writer from Vegas.. What kind of bets does your place take, and from what kind of players. Have you ever booked your own store?? Have you ever moved a line?

You guys can say whatever about Reality, but I can tell you he's good at what he does, damm good.

DEVIL

[Dot Mix]

Devil

Of course it was a harmlessley intended joke, but jokes are easily misunderstood on line. Those types of jokes can become rumors, and real people I know in real life read these forums.

I'm fine now and I just went ballistic for the moment.

Thanks....Dot

[REALITY]

APOLOGIES.

HIT THE BUTTON TWICE


REALITY


[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 07-05-2000).]

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by REALITY:
[B]DOGGIE STYLE,RENO,

REMEMBER ONE THING,I AM AN EMPLOYEE FOR WHOEVER PAYS MY SALARY AND I AM ACCOUNTABLE TO HIM.

IF HE TELLS ME NO WISEGUYS.

THERE WILL BE NO WISEGUYS!

IF HE SAYS WRITE IT ALL!

I'M WRITING IT ALL!

BELIEVE ME I CAN HANDLE BOTH EQUALLY WELL.

AS I HAVE STATED BEFORE,I CUT MY TEETH IN THE OFFICE THAT WAS THE CLEARING HOUSE FOR EVERY WISEGUY IN THE WORLD.

THERE WAS NOT A RECREATIONAL PLAYER IN THE HOUSE.

THIS WAS THE CRIS BEFORE THERE WAS A CRIS.

WHILE THESE TWO GENTLEMAN ARE FRIENDS,THE CRIS OF TODAY HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OFFICE I WORKED IN.

REALITY

P.S.
DOGGIE STYLE,
I WANT A TAKE A SHOT HERE.

YOUR BIO SAYS TICKET WRITER IN VEGAS.

IF YOU WERE A TICKET WRITER DEVIL DIDN'T STEP ASIDE FOR YOU.

IF YOU WANT TO JUST POST YOUR INITIALS AND MY HUNCH IS RIGHT.

WE'LL TALK