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When I made my initial post, I was thinking more in terms of customers who had had experience with various books giving their recommendations. But I don’t object to hearing from the representatives of the sportsbooks themselves as to how their shops fit my criteria. So thanks for the input from Royal, Top of the World, and Payoffs Plus.
And especially thanks to Matt from Pinnacle, to whom I’ll address the remainder of this post.
I really respect your stepping up and giving a point-by-point response as to how Pinnacle fits what I’m looking for. Pinnacle is one of the books I was considering joining this season. It is safe to say that your post has increased the likelihood of that happening. And since obviously much of what I specified that I’m looking for in a book overlaps with what pretty much all bettors are looking for, I hope other readers of this forum will read your post carefully and consider joining Pinnacle, if they haven’t already.
As to some of the specifics:
1. What evidence is available from this forum supports the conclusion that Pinnacle is solid. Pinnacle is on “The List,” and I don’t believe I’ve ever seen any kind of warnings or allegations or anything negative in this posting forum to give one doubts about Pinnacle.
2. Again, I haven’t gone through the archives in detail to refresh my memory, but I believe that most or all of what’s been posted about Pinnacle is consistent with the notion that they are strong in the area of customer relations.
Actually, the very fact that you went to the trouble to offer such a detailed post is good customer relations in itself. As long as Pinnacle is as diligent about servicing and keeping clients once they’ve got them as they are about marketing to them initially, then everything should be fine.
3. You’re being a little coy with the vig details, but I’ll certainly keep on the lookout for the upcoming announcements. Are you referring only to straight bets (some kind of break on the standard –110)? How are your odds on parlays and teasers compared to ABC, who I think claims to have the most generous odds? (In the long run, if one uses one’s account with any frequency at all, I think these vig discounts are of more significance than the sign-up bonuses anyway.)
4. Sounds good. Once bonuses get much above that level, you have to start to wonder if it’s too good to be true.
If my account goes broke and I deposit new money, is there any bonus on that? If I bet with you throughout the football season and then withdraw whatever’s left at the end of the season, and then the following August or September I deposit money for the new season, is there any bonus on that?
5. Sounds like a very strong variety of betting options. I’m definitely interested in the futures, and I’m considering doing some research into half and quarter bets, and then maybe taking a shot at those.
I don’t believe you mentioned “action points” style wagering where how far from the spread the game lands affects how much you win or lose. I find that to be an intriguing style of wagering. I’ve done some number crunching on that and may research it further. (Though as long as books require you to have on account your maximum potential loss, I would never be able to make more than a handful of bets of this kind. They really tie up your balance.) If you do not offer these, it might be something to consider in the future. Or the “betting-in-progress” would also be something I might want to give a try if that were offered.
I’d like to have these options from one or more of my outs, but it’s definitely not necessary to have them from all of them.
6. Sounds very reasonable.
Since I’ll have multiple accounts and since one rarely wins or loses in the same proportion with all of them, it would also help if you do transfers with other books so I don’t have to have a withdrawal check sent to me and then turn around and send it to you or another book. Do you have any transfer arrangements like that?
7. The bets I would make would fit comfortably in that range.
8. If so, you’ll get more action from me. When the line’s pretty much the same everywhere, I’ll try to put about the same number of plays in at each of my outs, but I’ll certainly be shopping for these differences.
9. I’m glad you’ll be on the Web, since I do want to switch over to doing most or all of my betting online. I can’t really check you out beforehand though, because the weekend you’re scheduled to go online is the first weekend of the NFL season—no lead time at all. If I were only looking for one out this year, I’d probably choose some place else where I wouldn’t be joining blind like that. But given the fact that I’ll likely have several accounts, I can afford to take a shot with at least one of them on a new website. If the site has bugs or I don’t like it for some reason, it’s not like I won’t be able to get my plays down elsewhere.
10. I agree that not being on Don Best is not in and of itself negative evidence about a book. Mostly I’m thinking in terms of convenience. I’m assuming it’ll be a lot easier to keep track of what lines are available where if I just open up the Don Best Island Express. I’m not sure if it’ll really make that much of a difference to also have one or more outs I need to check separately. Certainly this factor by itself wouldn’t be enough of a reason for me to not sign up with a book that’s not on Don Best.
11. I doubt I’ll win enough for this to be an issue, unfortunately, but I respect your stand here.
12. Sounds like more than enough for my needs.
13. I’m glad you mentioned the “Stung by Bad Books” initiative. At the time it was announced I remember being impressed by it and intending to consider giving Pinnacle some of my business in appreciation for it, but I hadn’t thought of it in awhile. You might want to consider digging up that thread and sending it to the top, so people who aren’t aware of it can find out about it. It’s something worth blowing your own horn about.
On the whole, Pinnacle sounds like a class operation that offers much of what I would look for in an ideal book. You are on my “finalist” list, and I hope other forum readers will give you serious consideration as well. Thanks again, Matt.
And especially thanks to Matt from Pinnacle, to whom I’ll address the remainder of this post.
I really respect your stepping up and giving a point-by-point response as to how Pinnacle fits what I’m looking for. Pinnacle is one of the books I was considering joining this season. It is safe to say that your post has increased the likelihood of that happening. And since obviously much of what I specified that I’m looking for in a book overlaps with what pretty much all bettors are looking for, I hope other readers of this forum will read your post carefully and consider joining Pinnacle, if they haven’t already.
As to some of the specifics:
1. What evidence is available from this forum supports the conclusion that Pinnacle is solid. Pinnacle is on “The List,” and I don’t believe I’ve ever seen any kind of warnings or allegations or anything negative in this posting forum to give one doubts about Pinnacle.
2. Again, I haven’t gone through the archives in detail to refresh my memory, but I believe that most or all of what’s been posted about Pinnacle is consistent with the notion that they are strong in the area of customer relations.
Actually, the very fact that you went to the trouble to offer such a detailed post is good customer relations in itself. As long as Pinnacle is as diligent about servicing and keeping clients once they’ve got them as they are about marketing to them initially, then everything should be fine.
3. You’re being a little coy with the vig details, but I’ll certainly keep on the lookout for the upcoming announcements. Are you referring only to straight bets (some kind of break on the standard –110)? How are your odds on parlays and teasers compared to ABC, who I think claims to have the most generous odds? (In the long run, if one uses one’s account with any frequency at all, I think these vig discounts are of more significance than the sign-up bonuses anyway.)
4. Sounds good. Once bonuses get much above that level, you have to start to wonder if it’s too good to be true.
If my account goes broke and I deposit new money, is there any bonus on that? If I bet with you throughout the football season and then withdraw whatever’s left at the end of the season, and then the following August or September I deposit money for the new season, is there any bonus on that?
5. Sounds like a very strong variety of betting options. I’m definitely interested in the futures, and I’m considering doing some research into half and quarter bets, and then maybe taking a shot at those.
I don’t believe you mentioned “action points” style wagering where how far from the spread the game lands affects how much you win or lose. I find that to be an intriguing style of wagering. I’ve done some number crunching on that and may research it further. (Though as long as books require you to have on account your maximum potential loss, I would never be able to make more than a handful of bets of this kind. They really tie up your balance.) If you do not offer these, it might be something to consider in the future. Or the “betting-in-progress” would also be something I might want to give a try if that were offered.
I’d like to have these options from one or more of my outs, but it’s definitely not necessary to have them from all of them.
6. Sounds very reasonable.
Since I’ll have multiple accounts and since one rarely wins or loses in the same proportion with all of them, it would also help if you do transfers with other books so I don’t have to have a withdrawal check sent to me and then turn around and send it to you or another book. Do you have any transfer arrangements like that?
7. The bets I would make would fit comfortably in that range.
8. If so, you’ll get more action from me. When the line’s pretty much the same everywhere, I’ll try to put about the same number of plays in at each of my outs, but I’ll certainly be shopping for these differences.
9. I’m glad you’ll be on the Web, since I do want to switch over to doing most or all of my betting online. I can’t really check you out beforehand though, because the weekend you’re scheduled to go online is the first weekend of the NFL season—no lead time at all. If I were only looking for one out this year, I’d probably choose some place else where I wouldn’t be joining blind like that. But given the fact that I’ll likely have several accounts, I can afford to take a shot with at least one of them on a new website. If the site has bugs or I don’t like it for some reason, it’s not like I won’t be able to get my plays down elsewhere.
10. I agree that not being on Don Best is not in and of itself negative evidence about a book. Mostly I’m thinking in terms of convenience. I’m assuming it’ll be a lot easier to keep track of what lines are available where if I just open up the Don Best Island Express. I’m not sure if it’ll really make that much of a difference to also have one or more outs I need to check separately. Certainly this factor by itself wouldn’t be enough of a reason for me to not sign up with a book that’s not on Don Best.
11. I doubt I’ll win enough for this to be an issue, unfortunately, but I respect your stand here.
12. Sounds like more than enough for my needs.
13. I’m glad you mentioned the “Stung by Bad Books” initiative. At the time it was announced I remember being impressed by it and intending to consider giving Pinnacle some of my business in appreciation for it, but I hadn’t thought of it in awhile. You might want to consider digging up that thread and sending it to the top, so people who aren’t aware of it can find out about it. It’s something worth blowing your own horn about.
On the whole, Pinnacle sounds like a class operation that offers much of what I would look for in an ideal book. You are on my “finalist” list, and I hope other forum readers will give you serious consideration as well. Thanks again, Matt.
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