I need everyone's opinion

[intheknow]

This just happened at our sportsbook. Tell me what you posters think and then I'll tell you what we did.

After the Orioles game went off the board at 10:10 our sportsbook manager reopened the game to input some if plays into the system. By mistake when he opened the game it became open for online wagering. A player came in at 10:21 and played the Orioles for $500, not a limit play for him. At this time the score was 1-0 Orioles. What would you do as the BM?

[Ronbets]

Tie One---Action only if score is tied after one full inning.

[ShiftySheik]

I see no problem with the BM voiding the bet...it's important that you contact the player by telephone if you void the bet.

[freak]

score was 1-1 after first inning....

My thought would be don't you have an internal way of manually entering the bets w/o the system posting the game open on the net ?????

[grover]

If you accepted the bet you should live with the result.

[alec]

I think that whatever you do you just must be consistent.

You must have clear rules, which I believe most books don't have and you should grade according to your rules.

If in your rules this situation is described, I don't see any problem. If not pay the winnings and make better rules.

[mls]

If the score is tied in first inning action.

If the score is 1-0 for bettor void wager.

This is consistent, fair, and easily understandable.

[mls]

p.s.

Essential that customer contacted or e-mailed immediately so he knows action taken when his team still ahead 1-0.

Obviously this is not a situation where the bettor has scalped and would be left with the other side naked ... he really should expect this ... I understand that EVERY book has rules that state that past post bets are void (of course, a bet made a few minutes after post when there is still no score are routinely honored).

[SLAM DUNK]

I would let the game stand, live with the result, and update the system, so that it cannot possibly happen again.(a cheap learning experience) It very possibly was an innocent mistake by the player, and even if not, he didn't pop you on the game. The fact that the game was tied 1-1 after 1 inning takes away all advantage anyhow, but that is besides the point. From a business aspect, I see the cost/benefit analysis clearly in favor of letting the game stand (even if the game remained 1-0 after 1 inning).

By the way, not saying you would be wrong in voiding the bet, just saying what I would do in your shoes.

[This message has been edited by SLAM DUNK (edited 08-06-2000).]

[randyrohm]

Whatever you do it should be done asap. The past post rule seems to apply. He may get the worst of it but it looks like he was trying to get you.

[intheknow]

Thanks for all the replies.
Of course we honored the wager. I have said in this forum time and time again take a bet pay the bet. We can open a game on our system and cut off the internet, it was just a mistake on our part. I have no doubt this player was taking a shot, but I can't blame him for looking for every advantage. 10% juice is a mutha to overcome.

[DoggieStyle]

Depends on the player....

There are also good systems that let a manager enter wagers after the start of the game.

This was something that happened to us every day. We asked the programer if he could make it possible for managers to work on games WITHOUT opening them to CLERKS or the INTERNET.

The player must be talked to about this little $500 dollar bet he made.

If he is one of those players who BOTHERS you all the time this is a perfect time to let him know what you expect of them. This player will 99% of the time tell YOU to cancel the bet.

If he is a RECREATIONAL PLAYER who plays alot of games, Just tell them YOU made a mistake and let them keep the play if he wants. Let them know THEY are not at fault. The player might not have known the game had started. He did bet the side that was winning 1-0 though. This player 90% of the time will also ask you to cancel the bet.

The player that refuses to cancel the bet should be told that if it ever happens again they will have NO ACTION.

You should have to keep the bet. It was your mistake and the game was only 1-0 and it could have been put in by someone who didn't know it started. It's possible.

If you made the mistake, You can't blame the player for making the bet. You can't prove he knew the score of the game. You can't prove he knew the game started. (he probably did) That's why you have to talk to the player as soon as possible, Cut off the account and make him talk to a manager the next time he calls if you can't call the player, and if it's not possible you have no choice but to keep the play.

Did you talk to him before the game ended? If you couldn't, Keeping the play really is really is your only choice.......

It's amazing when the team they bet, That was winning 1-0 starts losing the game, The player you could not get a hold of all of a sudden CALLS THE BOOK.

Yes BOOKS are GOOD, and PLAYERS are BAD....

[This message has been edited by DoggieStyle (edited 08-06-2000).]

[Landmark95]

Excellent point at the end of your post Doggie, accepting bets such as these puts the bookie in a no-win situation and that is why we do everything here to discourage such activities.

Right Doggie, each situation depends upon the type of player you are dealing with. The right thing to do if a bet is made under questionable circumstances is to contact the bettor immediately. However, most players who are capable of pulling a maneuver (such as past-posting), know when to make themselves scarce and when to suddenly appear to complain when things are not working to their advantage. This is commonly known as "taking a shot" at a bookmaker.

True, there are some players who don't know their elbow from a hole in the ground, and we have many players who could play a game hours after it has started and honestly not have realized the game is nearly finished (because their newspaper had an old starting time for instance). However, it is not in a bookmakers interest to encourage any type of unfair play on the part of their customers, because it encourages those huckleberries who do nothing but wait for you to make a mistake, and don't provide you any genuine action in the process.

Almost all sports books have in their rules that they have a right to reject any bet, and that past-posted bets are automatically voided. If someone slips in on the internet to make a bet 10 minutes after the game has begun, a game that already has had a team score; ask yourself would this player have made this bet FOR THE SAME AMOUNT in good faith the same way had he not known that current score. Ask yourself would the same player had made the same bet if he have had the courage to call you on the phone and ask you for that same bet to you personally after the game had begun.

Nowadays, an early one run lead in baseball can be completely meaningless (unlike maybe hockey), so maybe it's not worth the trouble, you can just let it go. But, if I see a player who normally bets $25-50 a play, suddenly playing $500 when he thinks he's got an advantage with an erroneous line or early score, then the "a bet is a bet" adage goes out the window. The guy is taking a shot at me, and it would be foolish for any bookie to encourage his players to do that.

As Doggie clearly stated, you really can't prove anything as far as the player's motive goes, unless he dramatically increases his normal wager in this situation.

[This message has been edited by Landmark95 (edited 08-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Landmark95 (edited 08-07-2000).]

[Ronbets]

Good post Landmark95. If you don't mind me asking, what part of NY are you from? The "Rizzutoism" is a dead giveaway. Huckleberries!!

[DoggieStyle]

Landmark95,

Of course, Most of the time it is taking a shot.

The problem is THE BOOK opened this game up so players could make a bet on it. NOT THE PLAYER.

It was only 11 minutes after the start of the game. Not enough time to clearly say the player past posted you! Baseball games can start 11 minutes after post! This is the questionable part of the problem, It wasn't an hour or more. It wasn't a half hour later and a 4-0 score.

I think unless the player is a middler/scalper or someone YOU KNOW knew the game has started and had a score of 1-0 the BOOK is (well you can't say legally responsible) but the book must eat the bet........unless the player agrees to cancel the bet... WIN or LOSE. And we know some won't cancel the bet if he's winning or won it.......

And if it's the best player you have, someone who loses day after day. You have to laugh with him and say "You got us that time"

Don't you??????????

[This message has been edited by DoggieStyle (edited 08-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DoggieStyle (edited 08-06-2000).]