Olympic World Sports

[AussieVamp2]

PC,

Yeah, agreed. Two heads, four arms, and the extra 40 odd minutes in the Martian day would help to start with

[alec]

boris,

I understand that. The more outcomes the greater is % hold.

What I don't get is why. I would understand why the % hold is greater in Hungarian league than in Italian. Because bookies want to have a greater error margin for the events they are less familiar with.

But why would one want to have different % hold for two line types for the same event. It is just stupid in my opinion.

Asian lines is a good example. I remember having something like France to win 1.9 (three way) and France (-0.5) 1.95 at the same time during Euro2000 at Intertops. Does it make any sense?

[DrunkenGoon]

PC - One thing you guys could definitelly make my day on at Olympic....

Please allow us to see more than just the last couple of weeks in Wager Activity... I am guilty of sometimes not tracking my plays into my spreadsheets and if it goes past two weeks I can no longer retrieve my plays. I think this is a pretty simple think, maybe add a "All" or last 3 months or whatever, just give us an option to go back and see our plays!

Thanks and may all your bets be winners

[alec]

PC, AV2,

Hungarian League etc.

Why is it so important? I would prefer to have better lines (% hold, more options for each game etc) than to have more leagues. And I doubt I can ever get both.

PC,

What will you get if you add Ukrainian League for example. Who is going to bet it. I think you will get bets on fixed games and that's it.

Isn't time is better off spent on improving current offer. For example I would like to see an option "Team to score Yes/No" for each game. And I can suggest several other options if you wish.

And honestly I don't understand how you can handle all those soccer leagues plus tennis and this is probably not all. The only choice in this situation is simple copying, which is not very interesting neither for you, I believe, nor for the bettors.

[AussieVamp2]

Originally posted by alec:
PC, AV2,

Hungarian League etc.

Why is it so important? I would prefer to have better lines (% hold, more options for each game etc) than to have more leagues. And I doubt I can ever get both.

-- More games, more opportunity, more turnover for bookmakers and punters. Better lines, are, of course, good. Ideally all of them with odds like Canbet's Norwegian 2nd division has 1000 games or so, how can that be bad? I would imagine the opinion would be the same, for example, if punters had the option of the US baseball league being 10 times as big with 10 times as many games to bet on then all the more opportunity for them, more bets with an edge = greater profit.


PC,

What will you get if you add Ukrainian League for example. Who is going to bet it. I think you will get bets on fixed games and that's it.

-- Depends on the limits, I guess. Obviously for the Premier League you get bets on fixed games, as well. Seems that Intertops is of the opinion if you offer them people will bet on them? Won't know until they try I guess. Football (or whatever the major sport in an area) always should be popular for betting.

Isn't time is better off spent on improving current offer. For example I would like to see an option "Team to score Yes/No" for each game. And I can suggest several other options if you wish.

-- Alec, for me, props like that currently hold no real appeal - are these easier to beat for the sharper types is another question? Not sure props are an improvement of that sort, as most interest is on game results as far as I could see. (or handicap results)


And honestly I don't understand how you can handle all those soccer leagues plus tennis and this is probably not all. The only choice in this situation is simple copying, which is not very interesting neither for you, I believe, nor for the bettors.

-- Think I will disagree from a punting viewpoint on the copying - as expressed in the WNBA totals deal - if you have a reputable bookmaker offering you this, rather than having to use, say, the Czech Republic, even if they are doing some copying of lines, is that a bad thing? I don't think so. I know where I would rather use for Russia, Poland, or wherever. If copying is not interesting, then must be pretty boring for a lot of American bookies (then again all jobs will be boring to greater or lesser degrees)

[PerpetualCzech]

DrunkenGoon,

I'll pass your comment on to Mike, our IT guy. I remember thinking the same thing when I was a client.

alec,

I suspect one of the reasons, unfortunately, is that it is easier to disguise a high %age hold in a multi-way line.

Also, Hungarian and Ukrainian leagues are important in that they attract customers from those areas. If you think like a marketer rather than a punter then it may make more sense. Even if I get no action on half my leagues it may be worth it in order to be able to call myself a true global soccer bookmaker (or then gain, maybe I'll find out that it is not worth it ...) Hopefully in the long run both our quantity AND quality will be top-notch.

[AussieVamp2]

Damn,

I was thinking like a marketer?

[alec]

PC,

I have the same idea about the reason of increasing % hold for events with more than 2 outcomes.

On the Hungarian League. From the marketer's point of view I doubt that Hungarian market is worth the effort. And even if it is, I think it is extremely hard to have a strong line for those small leagues.

In Ukraine we used to have very low limits for Ukrainian soccer. For some time we even used to accept bets on domestic soccer matches in trebles only. Nothing helped. We kept loosing.

OK, maybe we were just bad, but I doubt that being in Jamaica you are going to be any better.

[alec]

AV2,

Here we have very different opinions.

My position is that in order to have any chance of winning I should follow very closely the events I make my bets on. And by following I mainly mean watching as many related events as possible. I don't believe that by just analyzing statistics I can beat the odds.

Hence it doesn't make any difference for me how many games there are in Norwegian 2nd division. Have you actually ever seen at least a game in Norwegian 2nd division or Hungarian 1st? It is not hard to get all the statistics for those divisions, but the oddsmakers have the same material.

It is a great honer for the Ukrainian League to be compared to the Premier League even in terms of fixed games. But come on, are you serious?

On the other hand, propositions like " a team to score" don't require much of additional work from me and usually odds varies significantly for such options in different books. Hence I am interested.

All above was said from the punter's point of view. As a bookmaker I tend to agree with what you said about "post a line and people will bet it, doesn't matter what events are involved".

[PerpetualCzech]

alec,

That's interesting insight ... I'll have to think about this more. My guess is that you may have been victim to some dirty tricks involving pregame agreements and referees but who knows. I do know that kind of stuff went on all the time in the Czech Republic (a friend of mine had a brother who played for the 1st league ... sometimes they would go into games and not try on purpose as sort of a protest becuase they knew the ref was paid off)

[boris]

Alec,
The example you gave with Intertops giving different prices for a win and -1/2 just shows how laughable their company really is.

With more outcomes, and more %, it makes it harder for clients to get an instant scalp. Bookies don't really care if you can scalp their price against someone else's, it's when they can do it an hour later at the same place because the margin is too tight and they've laid one side heavily.

For options like premierships or correct scores, you're only ever going to lay a few of the options anyway, rather than the whole field, so the % in the longshots really doesn't count.

[AussieVamp2]

Alec,

You would know more about rigged games in the Ukraine, but it pretty much seems soccer, due to its capitalist nature is the most corrupt sport there is, and it is sort of nod and wink accepted that this stuff happens.

No, I have never seen a Norwegian second division game, or a Norwegian First Division game or a Norwegian Eliteserien game, or a German Second Division game or a Belgian game, or a German Ice Hockey game, NHL, English 3rd division, Hurling etc., etc. Doesn't matter.

Haven't seen a baseball game for years either. Doesn't matter either.

Tennis is probably a whole different story due to the individual nature of the game.

[AussieVamp2]

Now, as far as fixing goes - propositions could be dodgier as well?

i.e. if you are paying 75.00 on a 5-0 score or something like that, if they rig that it is pretty ugly?

[AussieVamp2]

Jury is still out on the Eastern European leagues though, however, as have not followed them long enough to see if the same thing works, or if they are far too bent for that, so we will see after this season.

[AussieVamp2]

So is Czech hockey bent as well PC?