I don't get it

[JC]

I just don't get it. How can an operation survive with the following incentives?

5% juice
3-1 on 2 team parlays
7-1 on 3 team parlays
and
10% bonus on all deposits
(I think I also saw free money transferred out but I am not sure)

We are seeing more and more of this and frankly it is frightening. Don't tell me they make it up in
volume. The cost of doing business offshore is extremely high, and grows although non-linear with
volume.

5% juice has a theoretical hold of only 2.4%, the 2 and 3 team parlays have a theoretical hold of ZERO
% over the long run and the 10% bonus on all deposits cuts into ALL of those figures. (Plus the cost of
sending money out if I read right.)

Of course all of the above assume an average year. Those figures are worse for bad years.

It seems that many of the books have gone down this slippery slope and I don't know where it will end.
There are many books offering similar promotions if not more.

I think these promotions are great when done on a limited basis to attract new players, get them to try
you out, and hopefully retain them. But if you continuously pay the 10% on deposits and continuously
offer such favorable odds how can you ever reap the benefits? It only works if eventually the competition
thins out ad you are one of the only ones left standing and are free to drop the perks. But if that is the
main reason people are with you in the first place and you've given them nothing to distinguish you
from the book down the street, they will leave and go to whichever one is new and offering the same or
similar incentives.

Yes, these deals are fantastic for the players. But how can these places survive? Please explain it to me.
Anyone.

I know the figures and I know the costs of running a high volume shop. And I'll add a very efficient high
volume shop. I also know what those figures are in bad years. There is not a lot of room for a bad year
using traditional odds.

Someone please educate me.

[azbob]

two things:

1) i think the books still make money because few...very few, players make money on a consistent basis over the long term

2) i also think there will be further consolidation in the number of books with, in the future, a few "super books" which have gobbled up smaller ones (see premiere, posttime, etc)

when that happens, forget about bonuses and reduced vig as players will have to choose between these monopolistic super books or new, unproven start-ups which do not have a track record therefore a high level of risk

but then again, i thought gore won florida and bush was president and gore won new mexico and gordon lost in washington and jax would win easily today etc.

[Jeff]

In the cases of 5% juice, in "some" cases, the action they are getting is much different than the average offshore book (layoff action).

[-UB-]

One thing to keep in mind is that many large offshore shops also have very successful online casinos. Aside from attracting many casino players, a large majority of casual sports bettors enjoy playing Blajack, etc. This revenue would not only pay the bills, but provide for a nice profit - even when the sportsbook is not turning out good percentages.

[alec]

3-1 on 2 team parlays
7-1 on 3 team parlays

This is interesting. Do they do it on a regular basis?

Actually, from my experience, it is not very clear how a book survives with a 5% juice either.

On a side note. It is really funny when a book has to specify the odds for a parlay. Not too many people, I guess , are able to convert -110 into a decimal format and then multiply two rational numbers.

[ShiftySheik]

I'd be afraid to post up with a book like that. They're giving away too much....especially on the no juice parlays. If you don't mind me asking, who is the book? It must be a new book that doesn't know the business.

[Hartley]

If you notice it's the books that don't have these ridiculous incentives that are still operating. Those that offer these hooks usually close up quickly or leave without a trace and a great deal of money owing.

Which are the biggest offshore books going right now?
WWTS, SOS, Intertops, WSEX, Bowmans etc. And if you notice none of them have ever tried to win bettors with 5% juice and/or constant bonuses.

I think that says a lot - real bettors will always send their money to a solid book with a good record - not to those that are trying to "buy" the bettors over the short term.

[MISTY]

HARTLEY, PLEASE FACTOR ACES GOLD INTO THE EQUATION. THEY SEEM TO DO QUITE WELL WITH THEIR MARKETING STRATEGY WHICH INCLUDES ALL OF THE PREVIOUS MENTIONED NO-NO'S. CHEERS, misty

[windmill]

Anyone who thinks a book can survive on 5% juice has NEVER been in the business. Buyer beware. BASIC friggin' math.

[Jeff]

Again, I generally agree with the notion that reduced vig isn't something that books should practice, other that the once a week specials and what not.

However, there are exceptions to every rule.....yes, a book that sets up offshore with no existing clientel is commiting suicide doing that........yet, a well established state side book, with large layoff action and agent business (which amounts to less than -110 anyways) that sets up offshore.....different story.

Let's not forget the books that offer percentages to those that send players to their book.

When it comes down to it, ALL offshore books are offering less than 11/10 after you factor in all the expenses of operating offshore.

[Top Of The World Sports]

I cannot speak for any other sportsbook that offers reduced juice, but as for Top Of The World Sports we earn money on the large volume of customers who play here. Smaller sportsbooks who move their lines up and down to get even action are making a living off of the vig. This is where these earning percentages of sportsbooks we see posted in these forums come from. A sportsbook that evens out its action to earn the vig is earning X amount on every dollar bet depending upon how the lines fall for the games that they move. That does not come into play with large Sports Books. I would be more careful playing with sportsbooks that offer high bonuses and pick up all of your in and out fees. Those will be the first sportsbooks to be out of business.

Top Of The World Sports
Holiday Beach Hotel & Casino
Curacao, N.A.
1-800-285-5441 www.twssports.com www.twscasino.com

[Underdog7]

I don't see anything wrong with 5% vig, 10% bonuses, reloads, etc. With all the betting options nowadays, a book will survive with NO VIG as long as a player will stay on the same book for a long period of time. They don't want players who hop from one place to another or in short a HIT AND RUN player. Bottom line, they will win in the final stretch.

[Chillin-the-Most]

Underdog 7,
In most cases, you are right. The house will beat the majority of the people, the majority of the time. However, what Jay is saying is how much can we spend to get a client. If a client is worth #2500.00 to the house, how can the house pay $3500.00 in one year for this client in terms of advertising, customer service, bonuses, transfer fees, and reduced vig?

In the end it is just bad business.

Rich

[Railbird]

Its always other shops whining about 5% vig,and specials,the bottom line is they are envious,jealous and are tightwads,they are rooting like hell that the other books fail,case in point J.C.,who offers 3-1 on 2 teamers,are you lying,exagerating or both?Canbet is -107,a player should never lay more than that and should never half to.
We players need to ignore people like Jc and John Edens who try to scam us,deceive us to crap books,they cant handicap worth beans,so they want us to be misrable as well.

[alec]

Originally posted by Underdog7:
With all the betting options nowadays, a book will survive with NO VIG as long as a player will stay on the same book for a long period of time.

Underdog7,

This is simply not true. If a player makes random bets with no vig he will end up (in a long run) with the same balance he started with.