Which are clone joints and which are NOT?

[bmboy888]

I know that there are many books out there that move their lines on "air" and not money. They copy the line movements on the Don Best. I would think that most if not all line movements originate for the "big books" like CRIS, Olympic, RIO.

My question for the ones in the "know" are is my assumption that line movements originate from these "big books" and if so which other books are considered line move originating books.

I would also like to throw out a question to all, which books are considered the "clone books" and which ones are not a part of the "big books" category but do NOT move their lines on "air"?

[REALITY]

AH!!!BMBOY888,

ITSA FERY GOODA QUESTION YOUUU AASK!

INA FUTBOL SEASONA LIKA DIS:

SENSAI SAY:

ITA BETTA TO A MOVA ONA AIR,THENA TO DIE FROMA LACKA OF IT...

SYONARA!

[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 12-08-2000).]

[Underdog7]

REALITY - Don't you ever sleep?

[REALITY]

DONA BEST ON!

DONA BEST OFF!

DONA BEST ON!

DONA BEST OFF!

GOOD WORKA WEEDHOPPA!

AFTER YOUA FINISH YOU GOA TOA WESTERN UNION.

MR.MYOGI LOVE OVAH IN TOKYO GIANTS GAME TODAY...

HUURRY WEEDAHOPPA GAME GO SOON!!!

[REALITY]

U DOG 7,

I'M SITTING HERE LIKE A JERK WAITING TO HEAR FROM SOMEONE I'M TRYING TO HELP IN EUROPE.

HE'S GOT ABOUT TWO MORE REDICULOUS POSTS BEFORE I SAY SAYONARA...

WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE?

REALITY

[reno]

Good post, bmboy888. All clone joints in the sportsbetting universe should come into Bettorsworld and identify themselves. Confession is good for the soul.

[REALITY]

BLESS ME RENO FOR I HAVE SINNED,

I MOVED A LINE ON AIR AGAIN...

PLEASE DON'T COMDEMN ME TO CLONE JOINT HELL,

I ONLY MOVE WHEN I HEAR THE DON BEST BELL,

I JUST CAN'T HELP IT WHEN I SEE BLACK BARS,

I ONLY MOVE IT TO SAVE MY HOUSE AND CARS...

[sportshobby]

LOL

[sportshobby]

bmboy, I feel bad that none of your questions have really been addressed. I don't know how to answer them, either; but I'll make some inputs.

The places that take the biggest limits typically get the first hits by the steam moves. That includes CRIS, Olympic, etc.

But many times the big moves start off-screen. It's hard to pick these off, unless you just happen to be checking lines by phone or internet just as the move is happening.

As far as which books are clone and not, you'll just have to watch the screen for yourself. Books are not only in one category or the other, but also in shades between.

A few of the real action-driven, independent, prime-time books that I know are Carib, PremiereLeague, and Canbet. There are many others, but they are fewer than the clone list.

[reno]

You can also add SOS, Victor Chandler (believe it or not), and World Sports Exchange.

Now, do we see a pattern? Why is Antigua home to so many independent, non-clone joints?

[bmboy888]

thanks for the input guys.

I know the questions I was asking didn't really have any clear cut answer but I just wanted to get an idea. It happens so often on the Don Best screen where I would see a line move at one of the bigger books and a moment later almost all the others move. Now, this could be caused by action cause many people do play the moves and the steam but I am also sure that there are books which just move their number because of the Don Best screen.

[DoggieStyle]

Reality and Reno,

I don't think there's really anything wrong with a bookie moving on air. SOMETIMES....

There's alot of reason that would make a bookie move a game on air.

Let's say an Injury comes across the ticker. You see everyone moving their lines because almost all KEY injuries effect the lines... You would want to moves your lines as well. Higher or lower if you have an opinion... and that IS a good Idea to use your OPINION if you have one.

Let's say you just LOVE a game because you KNOW the number is WAY TOO low. I see no reason that a bookie should have to take bets on the low number when the sharp players come looking for the game IF HE CAN AVOID IT. If he knew the number was too low. This bookie probably had the number higher anyway and AVOIDED MOST of the play anyway. He also probably had money on the SO-CALLED wrong side. Once again if you have an OPINION and USE it.... you often find yourself trying to AVOID certain plays. BY MOVING ON AIR.

If you sit all day and have a game that has NO action on it, And AGAIN you would need an OPINION, You could move your line ON AIR to get action on the game so you can at least have an oportunity to make some money on the game.... I have seen the so-called best bookies do this all the time.

This all boils down to this:

A sharp bookie will do what ever he feels is right to make money. SOMETIMES the sharpest of the sharps will MOVE ON AIR. And for good reason.

The others (I can't call these guys or girls bookies) who just moves their lines only because everybody else just did and ONLY BECAUSE IN THEIR SAD MINDS THEY THINK THAT EVERY MOVE STILL WINS....... is a CLONE BOOKIE..... And not a good one either!

Who knows who they are? The middlers and scalpers know right away or have a pretty good idea real quick who they are.

These books are the books that make this whole industry weak. The books that take all the action need these regular players these 7-11 books take, to make them stronger......

25-50 big, Well run, semi regulated INDEPENDANT books is what this industry needs.....

Not some 250 "who knows where they came from books" that just want to COPY each others lines, Just take suckers bets, Throw out any winners, and NEVER take a SO-CALLED SHARP BET. Cool...............

O.K. Who did I offend this time?

[REALITY]

DOGGIE,

WHEN YOU WALK IN A SHOP FOR THE FIRST TIME AND THE OWNER SAYS HE DOSEN'T WANT WISEGUY ACTION THE B.M.HAS TO BE PREPARED FOR A TOUGH ROAD TO HOE.

HE HAS TO CHART THE OPENERS AND CLOSERS.

HE HAS TO MARK THE TIME OF THE MOVES.

HE HAS TO REVIEW EVERY GAME CHART TO IDENTIFY WHO IS BEATING THE MOVE IN.

ON TOP OF ALL THIS HE HAS TO MANAGE THE LINES HE HAS POSTED.

EVERYONE THINKS MANAGING A PLACE THAT DOSEN'T ACCEPT WISEGUY ACTION IS EASY...

IT'S A TEDIOUS JOB WHICH REQUIRES A GREAT AMOUNT OF CONCENTRATION.

YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE ON GUARD FOR SNEAKERS.

THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT A HOUSE THAT WRITES IT ALL IS A DAY AT THE BEACH.

IN A HOUSE THAT WRITES IT ALL YOU HAVE TO IDENTIFY THE TALENT.

THE ORIGINATORS,THE MOVERS,AND THE SHARPS.

THEN YOU HAVE TO EVALUATE HOW MUCH YOU RESPECT THEIR PLAY SO YOU CAN DETERMINE HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO MOVE THE LINE.

I ONCE POSTED THAT IN A SHOP LIKE THIS I WOULD OPEN MY LINE TO A DOZEN PLAYERS FOR 30 MINUTES BEFORE I OPENED IT UP FOR EVERYBODY.

YOU SAID YOU KNOW THE TWELVE PLAYERS.

I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT YOU DON'T.

YOU DEFINITELY KNOW SIX.

THE OTHER SIX ARE SMALL HANDICAPPERS THAT HAVE PLAYED ME FOR YEARS.

YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT THEY DO AS WELL IF NOT BETTER THAN THE MORE WELL KNOWN PLAYERS.

YOU MAKE A HAND CHART OF THEIR PLAYS AND ADJUST THE LINE ACCORDINGLY.

I REALLY ENJOY WRITING BIG ACTION DESPITE THE FACT THAT MY HOLD WILL BE LOWER BECAUSE OF THE EXPOSURE IN THE LINE.

BILLY SCOTT STOPPED BY TO SEE AN OPERATION I WAS RUNNING TWO YEARS AGO.

HE COULDN'T BELIEVE I WON 6% IN BASEBALL WITH A TRUE DIME LINE.

HE PAID ME PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST COMPLIMENTS I HAVE EVER RECEIVED.

AFTER SEEING MY WORK ETHIC AND MY PREPARATION,HE SAID,"SON,YOU'VE TURNED THIS INTO A JOB"

I LIKE TO THINK HE WAS IMPRESSED WITH WHAT HE SAW...

REALITY

[guidoS]

Dear Master REALITY,
Guido grasshopper, student of REALITY, does have a life, albeit a boring and thankless one. Nevertheless, he has not had time to peruse the old postings of the reno-REALITY wars. But he has come to the conclusion that
Master REALITY is not his Buddha on the top of the mountain, but instead REALITY is just a BM!!! (say it all together now, well duh!!!) okay, so guido is not the sharpest tack in the box! but why BM'ing? ya coulda been a contender, REALITY! not that BM'ing can't be an honest (altho illegal) profession if practiced according to the tenets of the Church of Honest Betting Etiquette. But surely u coulda been a doctor or a lawyer or even (and also?) a great chef!? why REALITY? guido grasshopper, the disillusioned student of REALITY

[DoggieStyle]

Reality,

I have seen people do exactly what you have said.

That very same method also cost those people alot of money at times. It seem the players were taking advantage of the books from time to time, Because the books seem to always put up such bad opening numbers and NOBODY except the players seemed to know. Hum... What a suprise!

Those guys (players) will really rip you apart if you don't know what your doing. DO YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I SAW THIS HAPPEN! And wanted to VOMIT!

YOU might be different, But the guys I saw book like that all lost way too much money to those players. They always ended moving the number 2 and 3 points sometimes just to get even. There's NO WAY IT WAS HELPING THEM TO BOOK.

If a number is BAD... It's BAD!!!!!! YOU CAN'T MAKE IT UP!!!! EVER!

And that is My point...... YOU, THE BOOKIE has got to be smarter than that!

You have to know what the number should be, BEFORE YOU TAKE EVEN 1 BET or your already getting taken advantage of by these players!

You also have the mathmatical edge! You can open the line with an advantage at times.... THE PLAYER CAN NOT! You can TRAP the player... The player CAN'T trap you.

But..

Wouldn't that get kind of boring though? If someone just used other peoples opinions to open their lines.

If someone just moved their lines every time the Don Best went black. How important does that make that person?

And how much WORK could it really be?

But hey... What you are saying is 100% correct. I NEVER SAID YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

REALITY.... If someone said "We are throwing out any players that are semi-professional or higher, And any player that beats in a Don Best move"

If somebody said that...... What would they need us for?