Clone Joints???

[Jeff]

We hear alot of negative talk about this book and that book being clone joints....but how many really are clone joints? What would be the correct definition of a clone joint? I mean, think about it. Just about every joint out there is a clone joint to some degree, in that they take the openers from CRIS and work from there. I think alot of players mistakingly classify a book as a clone joint simply because they can't beat a particular book to a move........but that doesn't mean someone else isn't beating them to it. You can rest assured that when a move hits, most of the books out there are taking a pop at the original number. I don't think some people fully understand the magnitude of some of these moves, and just how many players are out there simultaneously going after the same numbers at the same books...........

[reno]

Jeff, your question reminds me of the Supreme Court judge, who, when asked to define pornography, said, "I know it when I see it."

The same thing can be said about "clone joints." If a player monitors line movement all day by watching the Don Best screen while simultaneously checking non-screen books, it soon becomes apparent which books are blatant clone joints that simply update on air on every line wrinkle.

For example, books like SOS, WSEX, and Victor Chandler are clearly not clone joints. On the other hand, books like Legal Book and Gambler's Palace clearly are.

[Jeff]

But that's my point....who's to say that Legal Book isn't taking a pop BEFORE the big boys. It's like years ago when the big New York shops would get hit long before Vegas.......now it's the non screen books getting hit before the screen books. I think alot of times, the assumption that xyz book is moving only because one of the sharp books moved, is wrong........

[REALITY]

RENO,

THE OFF-SCREEN BOOKS GET HIT FIRST WITH THE MOVE.

HOW CAN YOU TELL IF A BOOK IS NOT JUST SIMPLY GETTING HIT BY A MOVER AND NOT MOVING ON AIR?

FURTHERMORE,A PRO LIKE YOU SHOULD KNOW THERE ARE QUITE A FEW SCREEN BOOKS WHO DON'T HONOR THE SCREEN.

IF THE GAME IS 6 AND THE SIDE IS THE DOG AND YOUR LOOKING FOR THE DOG THEY WILL TELL YOU IT'S NOW 5.

IF YOU WANT TO LAY THE 6 THEY WILL TAKE IT FOR ALL YOU WANT.

IF YOUR SITTING ON AN ON-LINE PAGE YOU HAVE TO KEEP REFRESHING BECAUSE THESE ARE NO LONGER REAL TIME ODDS IF THEY ARE NOT REFRESHED.

SO I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW YOU POSSIBLY COULD BE 100% SURE THEY ARE MOVING ON AIR AND NOT BEING PLAYED BY MOVER.

REALITY

[reno]

Jeff, no way. When books like SOS, VC, and WSEX don't move on many games, while books like Gambler's Palace and Legal Book move on EVERY game, then it becomes quite clear who the clone joints are.

[reno]

Reality, with all due respect, I know a clone joint when I see one. And I still play with some clone joints for various reasons. I used Gambler's Palace and Legal Book as examples because I no longer play with them.
Also, a non-clone joint can turn into a clone joint overnight. A good example of that was Global Sports Connection. A couple of years ago, it went from being one of my best non-clone outs to being a book that copied its line updates right off the Don Best screen.

I know that some of the Don Best books move on air. I know a guy running one of the Don Best books who recently jumped a number, sans action, for kicks, and four other Don Best books immediately updated their lines.

Astrologers tell us that plantet Earth, via the precession of the equinoxes, has now retrograded from the Age of Pisces into the Age of Aquarius. However, as long as sportsbetting clone joints continue to pollute the universe, I refuse to believe it.

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by reno:

A good example of that was Global Sports Connection. A couple of years ago, it went from being one of my best non-clone outs to being a book that copied its line updates right off the Don Best screen.

RENO,

THIS IS SIMILAR TO WHEN A GOOD RESTAURANT OPENS UP.

A FEW PEOPLE START EATING THERE AND IT BECOMES MORE AND MORE POPULAR.

FINALLY EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT THE PLACE AND YOU NEED A RESERVATION TO GET IN.

WHEN YOU PLAYED A GSC YOU TRULY MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE ONLY GUY WITH A BRAIN PLAYING THERE IN THE FIRST YEAR.

THERE WERE NUMEROUS POSTS IN THIS FORUM ABOUT THE INFLATED FAVORITE PRICES IN BASEBALL AT GSC.

THE NEXT YEAR GSC'S POPULARITY GREW AND WAS NO LONGER A SECRET.

PLAYERS WHO WERE PLAYING FOR DECISIONS TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE OFF-BEAT PRICES THERE AND CONSEQUENTLY GSC DIDN'T HAVE TO OVERMOVE THEIR BASEBALL PRICES TO GET A BUY BACK.

THIS COMPANY GSC,WENT ON TO BECOME BETMAKER.COM AND EVENTUALLY WAS PURCHASED BY THE PUBLICLY TRADED SPORTINGBET.UK.

IT IS NOW KNOWN AS SPORTINGBETUSA.COM.

AN OFF-SHORE SHOP WHERE YOU WILL NEVER HEAR SLOW PAY OR NO PAY.

IF I'M CORRECT IN MY PREDICTION ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE OFF-SHORE INDUSTRY IN THE NEXT 60 DAYS,I SEE SPORTINGBETUSA'S STRONG FINANCIAL POSITION AND IT'S REPUTATION FOR INTEGRITY AS A MAJOR ATTRACTION FOR PROSPECTIVE PLAYERS.

MARK BLANDFORD THE C.E.O. OF SPORTINGBET IS FOND OF SAYING:

YOU'VE GAMBLED ON YOUR GAME,

DON'T GAMBLE ON YOUR BOOKMAKER...

THIS PLACE IS SOLID AS A ROCK.

AND YES I WAS A CONSULTANT IN THE SALE OF BETMAKER TO SPORTINGBET AND THAT'S WHY I CAN ATTEST TO THEIR FINANCIAL STRENGTH.

REALITY

[sportshobby]

There are several books that are, without a doubt, clone. You can watch them update their lines in total lock step with their "master" book.

Some start out early in the day as total clones, then take on their own life later (as the book starts to get sizeable action).

[reno]

A true indicator of a clone joint is that they almost never have a number on any game that is different from the Don Best consensus line. In other words, it seems as if they don't move any of their lines (even on non-steam games) on action, only on what they see on the Don Best screen. Non-clone joints regularly offer different lines because they actually move their lines on action.

[ShiftySheik]

Originally posted by reno:
A true indicator of a clone joint is that they almost never have a number on any game that is different from the Don Best consensus line. In other words, it seems as if they don't move any of their lines (even on non-steam games) on action, only on what they see on the Don Best screen. Non-clone joints regularly offer different lines because they actually move their lines on action.

that's a perfect description of "clone joint"

[jinxbebe]

A clone joint usually takes less action than bigger books.

Cris or Olympic will take more on a game, so they will be hit first.

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by REALITY

Originally posted by reno:

A good example of that was Global Sports Connection. A couple of years ago, it went from being one of my best non-clone outs to being a book that copied its line updates right off the Don Best screen.

RENO,

THIS IS SIMILAR TO WHEN A GOOD RESTAURANT OPENS UP.

A FEW PEOPLE START EATING THERE AND IT BECOMES MORE AND MORE POPULAR.

FINALLY EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT THE PLACE AND YOU NEED A RESERVATION TO GET IN.

WHEN YOU PLAYED A GSC YOU TRULY MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE ONLY GUY WITH A BRAIN PLAYING THERE IN THE FIRST YEAR.

THERE WERE NUMEROUS POSTS IN THIS FORUM ABOUT THE INFLATED FAVORITE PRICES IN BASEBALL AT GSC.

THE NEXT YEAR GSC'S POPULARITY GREW AND WAS NO LONGER A SECRET.

PLAYERS WHO WERE PLAYING FOR DECISIONS TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE OFF-BEAT PRICES THERE AND CONSEQUENTLY GSC DIDN'T HAVE TO OVERMOVE THEIR BASEBALL PRICES TO GET A BUY BACK.

THIS COMPANY GSC,WENT ON TO BECOME BETMAKER.COM AND EVENTUALLY WAS PURCHASED BY THE PUBLICLY TRADED SPORTINGBET.UK.

IT IS NOW KNOWN AS SPORTINGBETUSA.COM.

AN OFF-SHORE SHOP WHERE YOU WILL NEVER HEAR SLOW PAY OR NO PAY.

IF I'M CORRECT IN MY PREDICTION ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE OFF-SHORE INDUSTRY IN THE NEXT 60 DAYS,I SEE SPORTINGBETUSA'S STRONG FINANCIAL POSITION AND IT'S REPUTATION FOR INTEGRITY AS A MAJOR ATTRACTION FOR PROSPECTIVE PLAYERS.

MARK BLANDFORD THE C.E.O. OF SPORTINGBET IS FOND OF SAYING:

YOU'VE GAMBLED ON YOUR GAME,

DON'T GAMBLE ON YOUR BOOKMAKER...

THIS PLACE IS SOLID AS A ROCK.

AND YES I WAS A CONSULTANT IN THE SALE OF BETMAKER TO SPORTINGBET AND THAT'S WHY I CAN ATTEST TO THEIR FINANCIAL STRENGTH.

REALITY

[Unregistered]

TOP