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A CLASSIC POST THAT WAS POSTED ELSEWHERE BUT IS WORTH POSTING HERE.
WITH JEFF OF BETTORSWORLD'S KIND PERMISSION.
SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADO,IT IS MY GREAT PLEASURE TO INTRODUCE DAVE THE WAVE'S DISCERTATION ON THE REALITY OF THE OFF-SHORE BUSINESS.
DAVE,IF YOU PLEASE...
I was originally going to post this in its own thread, but it pretty much is on topic with yours SC, so I'll just add it on.
MY RANT
I've finally read enough! With all the opinions and experts I can't stand it any longer.
The books that have all been mentioned or rumored recently as having pay problems were hailed by many when they went up on the Don Best screen with accolades such as "REAL Bookmakers", been in the business for years, not afraid to take a bet, etc. etc.
Now here we are several months later and these real BMS are rumored to be in trouble. The excuses are endless, it's been a bad season, their computer was hacked, another book owes them big. Where are all their supporters now. All I see now is an occasional comment of, "If anyone can turn it around, X over there can do it. Let it play out and see how it goes." Hell, how about we just ask, "Where the hell the post up money went?"
Then a book like Intertops posts up some fun, silly props that no one in their right mind would bet for a large wager, unless they KNEW what the outcome was. Which people in the TV industry do know and they get crucified for their small limits. However, by all accounts they have always paid their players. Granted they had a dispute with another Spostsbooks and that was resolved in court, apparently by mediation that BOTH parties have acknowledged that they agreed to. Beyond that agreement I have NO direct knowledge of what happened and I'm sure most of the comments that have been made in the forum about it were from posters that were not named in the suit.
Sportbet goes up on the Don Best screen and out come the slams about their limits and their past practices of stalling players, but again, nothing is said about their ever not paying a player.
I'm not going to glorify either of these two books, because the bottom line is, either post your limits, however small they may be and take the play, or get off the screen. Don't tell me I can bet $500 as many times as I want, and then send email telling me your limits are $1000. Post it on your web site. Don't tell me your limit is $300 on some prop, that 24 hours later hasn't been moved, but I can't bet it, phone or Internet. That 48 hours after my original bet, the line has still not moved, but I can't bet it. Take the prop down if you didn't want action, or respect my play and moved the GD line. This applies to many books, from top to bottom, not just these two.
Don't place me on a dime baseball line, because you think I'm a square, when your transmitting a 20 cent line, and then switch because I wasn't so square. Just tell me what the HOUSE limits are for the line you put up, or take it down.
Then of course we have the big 4 or 5, depending on whose posting the list, solid books that your money is safe with, Real BMS, not afraid to take a bet, etc. Of course nothing says safety like being indited, being a fugitive, operating in one of the poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere,[not Costa Rica], etc.
Then of course we have the Real BM/Dressmaker argument over point-spreads with money lines. Real BMS don't use a money line. Real BMS know how strong 11/10 is. Who Cares. If a BM wants to put out -28.5 +10, I don't care, play, pass, move on. Are you going to pass a 30 cent hockey line at some Vegas book, even though the come back is better than across the street at X, because he's not a real BM. Real BMS don't use a 30 cent line. You do what you want, punish who you want because there not real BMS, I'll take the money and punish them that way.
It seems that the baseball scalpers get the value in these hybrid lines, then there are some that can't figure out whether its better to take 8, or take 7.5 -105. Just because you can't get it, doesn't make it "unacceptable." Maybe the dressmaker is scared that his exposure is just a little more than he's comfortable with and wants to force action on the other side. Maybe the dressmaker has had too many games fall and doesn't want to move off the number, regardless of how ridiculous you think the number is. One of the "better" books, some have even used the term "Real Bookmaker," mainly because they allegedly take big action, that has been around for several years has been using these "silly" lines for a few years, another "top" book uses them regularly with totals. I've never heard of either not paying a customer. Not to mention that the term "unacceptable bookmaking practices" as these point spread/money lines have been recently referred to.
Funny thing about these unacceptable bookmaking practices as they have been referred to at Rx, they are acceptable enough to take advertising dollars from the books. I'm not sure if that falls under, "I'm a whore, but I don't enjoy it" or "The guy told me he was gay and I was trying to make him see the light."
This is not meant to be a slam on the Rx. My point is, is you find this so "unacceptable," challenge WWTS and Rio to change, remove their advertising, or learn to deal with it. The only thing I find UNACCEPTABLE is not getting paid. I don't want to be told about your problems, I sent my money in good faith and I do understand to a point that problems arise, some which you can't control. But please, please, don't tell me that I can't get paid because some other book or large credit player, etc. stiffed you. That was you own doing, extending credit beyond your means, booking to higher limits than you could afford, etc. Of course you needed thoose high limits to be a real BM.
Its been mentioned earlier that "clone" books, players getting booted, etc are hurting the industry. Nothing hurts the industry more than books that open with ridiculous limits. They try and pull the best, high-rolling players in with this crap, only to find out that squares do win. Now that the squares won, what are you going to do? Oh, that was covered in the paragraph before, we didn't get paid, so FU.
If I find something else unacceptable, I vote with my feet and my money.
So SC, to answer your WHY. We send money offshore because some clown in a forum tells us that X is a big shop, takes big limits, not afraid to take a hit, has a real BM in charge, etc.
Just tell me where the shop is that takes small limits, scared to death of steam, puts up props, but for small limits, but NEVER has any payment complaints and I sleep well at night. I also keep my money spread between several shops, big and small, Real BM's and dressmakers. I always ask why when I hear a guy who bets $500 a game has $10,000 posted up somewhere. WHY? DO you just hate looking at different numbers.
Anyway, I'm tired and the rant is over. Good luck to all. Sorry, for being so long winded.
PS. I'll be gone for a while, so please don't be offended if your response is going unanswered. I'm sure their will be some or many that don't agree. Consider my unresponsiveness your triumph. You Win, your right. I dont care, I'm on vacation.
But it is after all MY RANT. Consider it just one more opinion, and like A-holes, everybodys got one.
DESTINED TO BE A CLASSIC.
THANKS,DAVE...
REALITY
WITH JEFF OF BETTORSWORLD'S KIND PERMISSION.
SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADO,IT IS MY GREAT PLEASURE TO INTRODUCE DAVE THE WAVE'S DISCERTATION ON THE REALITY OF THE OFF-SHORE BUSINESS.
DAVE,IF YOU PLEASE...
I was originally going to post this in its own thread, but it pretty much is on topic with yours SC, so I'll just add it on.
MY RANT
I've finally read enough! With all the opinions and experts I can't stand it any longer.
The books that have all been mentioned or rumored recently as having pay problems were hailed by many when they went up on the Don Best screen with accolades such as "REAL Bookmakers", been in the business for years, not afraid to take a bet, etc. etc.
Now here we are several months later and these real BMS are rumored to be in trouble. The excuses are endless, it's been a bad season, their computer was hacked, another book owes them big. Where are all their supporters now. All I see now is an occasional comment of, "If anyone can turn it around, X over there can do it. Let it play out and see how it goes." Hell, how about we just ask, "Where the hell the post up money went?"
Then a book like Intertops posts up some fun, silly props that no one in their right mind would bet for a large wager, unless they KNEW what the outcome was. Which people in the TV industry do know and they get crucified for their small limits. However, by all accounts they have always paid their players. Granted they had a dispute with another Spostsbooks and that was resolved in court, apparently by mediation that BOTH parties have acknowledged that they agreed to. Beyond that agreement I have NO direct knowledge of what happened and I'm sure most of the comments that have been made in the forum about it were from posters that were not named in the suit.
Sportbet goes up on the Don Best screen and out come the slams about their limits and their past practices of stalling players, but again, nothing is said about their ever not paying a player.
I'm not going to glorify either of these two books, because the bottom line is, either post your limits, however small they may be and take the play, or get off the screen. Don't tell me I can bet $500 as many times as I want, and then send email telling me your limits are $1000. Post it on your web site. Don't tell me your limit is $300 on some prop, that 24 hours later hasn't been moved, but I can't bet it, phone or Internet. That 48 hours after my original bet, the line has still not moved, but I can't bet it. Take the prop down if you didn't want action, or respect my play and moved the GD line. This applies to many books, from top to bottom, not just these two.
Don't place me on a dime baseball line, because you think I'm a square, when your transmitting a 20 cent line, and then switch because I wasn't so square. Just tell me what the HOUSE limits are for the line you put up, or take it down.
Then of course we have the big 4 or 5, depending on whose posting the list, solid books that your money is safe with, Real BMS, not afraid to take a bet, etc. Of course nothing says safety like being indited, being a fugitive, operating in one of the poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere,[not Costa Rica], etc.
Then of course we have the Real BM/Dressmaker argument over point-spreads with money lines. Real BMS don't use a money line. Real BMS know how strong 11/10 is. Who Cares. If a BM wants to put out -28.5 +10, I don't care, play, pass, move on. Are you going to pass a 30 cent hockey line at some Vegas book, even though the come back is better than across the street at X, because he's not a real BM. Real BMS don't use a 30 cent line. You do what you want, punish who you want because there not real BMS, I'll take the money and punish them that way.
It seems that the baseball scalpers get the value in these hybrid lines, then there are some that can't figure out whether its better to take 8, or take 7.5 -105. Just because you can't get it, doesn't make it "unacceptable." Maybe the dressmaker is scared that his exposure is just a little more than he's comfortable with and wants to force action on the other side. Maybe the dressmaker has had too many games fall and doesn't want to move off the number, regardless of how ridiculous you think the number is. One of the "better" books, some have even used the term "Real Bookmaker," mainly because they allegedly take big action, that has been around for several years has been using these "silly" lines for a few years, another "top" book uses them regularly with totals. I've never heard of either not paying a customer. Not to mention that the term "unacceptable bookmaking practices" as these point spread/money lines have been recently referred to.
Funny thing about these unacceptable bookmaking practices as they have been referred to at Rx, they are acceptable enough to take advertising dollars from the books. I'm not sure if that falls under, "I'm a whore, but I don't enjoy it" or "The guy told me he was gay and I was trying to make him see the light."
This is not meant to be a slam on the Rx. My point is, is you find this so "unacceptable," challenge WWTS and Rio to change, remove their advertising, or learn to deal with it. The only thing I find UNACCEPTABLE is not getting paid. I don't want to be told about your problems, I sent my money in good faith and I do understand to a point that problems arise, some which you can't control. But please, please, don't tell me that I can't get paid because some other book or large credit player, etc. stiffed you. That was you own doing, extending credit beyond your means, booking to higher limits than you could afford, etc. Of course you needed thoose high limits to be a real BM.
Its been mentioned earlier that "clone" books, players getting booted, etc are hurting the industry. Nothing hurts the industry more than books that open with ridiculous limits. They try and pull the best, high-rolling players in with this crap, only to find out that squares do win. Now that the squares won, what are you going to do? Oh, that was covered in the paragraph before, we didn't get paid, so FU.
If I find something else unacceptable, I vote with my feet and my money.
So SC, to answer your WHY. We send money offshore because some clown in a forum tells us that X is a big shop, takes big limits, not afraid to take a hit, has a real BM in charge, etc.
Just tell me where the shop is that takes small limits, scared to death of steam, puts up props, but for small limits, but NEVER has any payment complaints and I sleep well at night. I also keep my money spread between several shops, big and small, Real BM's and dressmakers. I always ask why when I hear a guy who bets $500 a game has $10,000 posted up somewhere. WHY? DO you just hate looking at different numbers.
Anyway, I'm tired and the rant is over. Good luck to all. Sorry, for being so long winded.
PS. I'll be gone for a while, so please don't be offended if your response is going unanswered. I'm sure their will be some or many that don't agree. Consider my unresponsiveness your triumph. You Win, your right. I dont care, I'm on vacation.
But it is after all MY RANT. Consider it just one more opinion, and like A-holes, everybodys got one.
DESTINED TO BE A CLASSIC.
THANKS,DAVE...
REALITY
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