Ashcroft Confirmation

[reno]

It looks like Ashcroft will be confirmed. What impact, if any, will this have on offshore gambling?

Also, based on his confirmation, do any of you who supported Bush wish you hadn't? Personally speaking, based on the fact that the Democrats were overwhelmingly responsible for defeating the Kyle bill, I don't understand how anyone concerned about the future of offshore gambling could have voted for Bush.

Sure, I can't stand the Liberal bullshit, waste, and big government, but the bottom line is that the Democrats seem much more tolerant of offshore gambling.

[kid]

He's a buddy of Kyl, need to know anymore?

[kid]

He's a buddy of Kyl, need to know anymore? I voted for Bush myself, seeing Ted Kennedy I remember why I did so. Anyway, gambling will be the common ground both parties can find, just wait and see.

[hiptwo]

reno, think you've seen waste? wait till bush jr. gets done. i think the media and the democrats (or someone)said he's not smart enough to run this country. i believe he's is going to make a statement that he is smart enough as long as he has daddy and the big money that bailed him out in his oil company. one thing i've got to say if its true, drinks,dope,women(that just has not cum out yet)my kind of guy except they got my fingerprints and profile. money does talk

[Ronbets]

A monstrous winning wager makes GWB an attractive God fearing, civic minded leader, a religious and sober man. Does that rationale ring a bell, Reno? It's called POCKET FIRST.

[tonk]

Excuse me Reno but you are mistaken.

You said,
"Based on the fact that the Democrats were overwhelmingly responsible for defeating the Kyle bill"

That is revisionist history and is not true.

When the Kyle Bill passed the Senate NOT ONE SINGLE DEMOCRATIC SENATOR VOTED AGAINST IT. NOT ONE.

The Kyle bill was stopped in the House of Representatives, which was completely controlled by Republicans, the Democrats could not have stopped it even if they wanted too.

The Kyle bill was slowed by Internet Service Providers who did not want their product censored. This gave people enough time to realize that the initial Kyle bill was unenforceable garbage and was simply "bad law".

When the second version of the Kyle bill was brought to the floor it was so replete with loopholes that the right-wing of the Republican party no longer supported it. This is what defeated the Kyle bill.

If you paid attention during the campaign, you would know that internet censorship was one of Al Gore's top priorities. You must remember that it is the right to free speech
that allows us to do these things on the net.

From Gore's involvment with the PMRC, to ban albums to his help in insituting "No Freedom of Speech Zones" around abortion clinics. He has not hesitated to sh it all over that right.

Gore's opposition to the Kyle bill was based only on his wanting a much more stringent and enforceable version passed. Certainly not because he was pro-gaming.

All things considered, someone who was intimately involved with the internet and was anti-gaming and against free speech, like Gore, would have been a much more dangerous opponent to offshore gaming than Bush.

[MarkDel]

Tonk,

What you have said is essentially correct. I have a thread on this on another site that I will repost here once I find it.

[MarkDel]

This was a post I made on another site and sums up the John Ashcroft situation relative to offshore gaming. Because it is a cut and paste job of my own work, the spacing, tabs, paragraph breaks are all screwed up. Please overlook that and take the time to read this.

Here's a brief summary of the John Ashcroft as Attorney General situation.

1. This WAS a major **** to the gambling industry and to the "libertarian wing" of the Republican Party who do their best to hide the moralistic
conservatives like Ashcroft. While I still think Bush was a better overall choice than Gore for President, this is a potentially damaging **** since
Ashcroft is a very close friend of the notorious Arizona wackos John Kyl and John McCain who have really pushed the internet gambling ban in the
past.

2. Ashcroft will draw bitter opposition from left wing and center/left organizations, but it will NOT be enough to defeat his confirmation. He was a
member of the Senate (who decides his confirmation) until a few weeks ago and has MANY friends on both sides of the political aisle. About 20-25
Democratic Senators may vote against him, but he will be confirmed by a very wide margin.

3. Despite the anti-gambling rhetoric, Ashcroft was NOT the person responsible for the attacks on the internet bookies in the state of Missouri. If you
check the facts of what took place there, Ashcroft was in the U.S. Senate when the Mike Simone stuff was going on in Missouri. While Ashcroft was
Attorney General of that state, he did not attack the gambling issue with much vigor. But Ashcroft was replaced as Attorney General in Missouri by a
guy named Jay Nixon, who prosecuted Simone and made the internet gambling issue a HUGE DEAL in that state. In case you're wondering, Nixon is a
member of Sting's beloved Democratic Party and is far enough to the left that he endorsed Bradley over Gore in the Democratic primary.

4. Neither party is a sure thing when it comes to being a "friend" to internet gambling. The Republicans are a danger because of the religious right and
the Democrats are a danger because a faction within the far left sees gambling as a social ill which amounts to exploitation of the poor and this faction
(what I call the paternalistic left wing) has grown in power in recent years. As a result, neither party can be trusted. Many of my Democratic friends
will point to the fact that many Dems voted against the Kyl Bill, but many of them did so because they felt the bill did not go FAR ENOUGH which
was the direct quote from Al Gore. Other Dems voted against it merely because they vote against anything a far right winger like Kyl proposes---it's
just politics.

5. There is some good news, however. Someone else in this thread made the point that the original Kyl Bill passed the Senate and House, yet never
ended up on Clinton's desk to be signed into law. In fact, the bill passed easily (90-10 in the Senate) but never went any further. The reason, the real
reason that no one can admit to, is that the "fix" was in all along. Certain sportsbooks hired a VERY POWERFUL REPUBLICAN LOBBYING FIRM
to represent their interests, and as a loyal soldier, Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott unofficially passed the word to other Republicans in the center and
center/right that they could enjoy the political benefit of voting for the Kyl Bill with no fear of it ever becoming law because Lott would see to it
personally that it was dropped from the Omnibus Bill presented to Clinton. This explains why moderate Republican Senators like Arlen Specter and Al
D'Amato spoke out violently against the Kyl Bill at first, but then voted IN FAVOR of it when the actual vote took place. They KNEW it wouldn't
get out off the ground thanks to Lott.

The bottom line here is that George W. Bush is not the most ideological President we've ever had and he's also going to have his hands full with a lot
of important issues, so it would be very surprising to see this idiot Ashcroft push any anti-gambling agenda. The first year of Ashcroft's term will be
spent bringing about a COMPLETE overhaul of the personnel at the Justice Department and at the U.S. Attorney's Offices around the country.
Virtually every Clinton appointee will lose his or her job and it will take months, if not years, to fill in the replacements. By the way, one of those
almost certain to lose her job as a U.S. Attorney is Mary Jo White, the opportunistic and woefully dishonest bastard who went after Jay Cohen and the
rest of the original offshore indictments in the New York Office. And by the way, for all of you who are sooooooooooooooooo worried about the
Republicans, Mary Jo White, like Jay Nixon in Missouri, is a left wing Democrat.

[Ronbets]

Thanks Mark for the always informative posts.

Now I can hang my miniature elephant proudly on my rear view mirror. The donkey has been put to pasture. Hopefully for quite a few years.

Trent, don't take any shlt from that junior senatoress from NY.--

[reno]

Tonk and Mark, thanks for the informative responses. Is there anyone from the left--where is Zippy?--who wishes to rebut the arguments made by Tonk and Mark?

[MarkDel]

Thanks Reno.

Jeff/Brian--You guys gotta do something about your profanity editor--it allowed me to use the word "bastard" but not "bloww"!!! The "w" was added to prevent further editing. (LOL)

[Geekinstein]

Ya know, this is not a Demo or Repub issue. Once the money gets right from the Lobbies both of these "major parties" will get out the kneepads and chap stick and "bloww" with the breeze.

Therefore if the big money in Vegas decides to line up and do electro-betting of any sort...it will be so.

Ashcroft is a political sycophant as much as anyone else.

[Jeff K]

Just what we need, a Born Again Christian President, and a Pentecostal Attorney General. If you added their IQ's together, you still wouldn't break 100.

[garrow]

It boils down to who buys them.Dont believe the morality bullshit.If the offshores fill there pockets no problem.Like drugs and illegal aliens they might make token laws then claim they cant enforce them.The real problem is they might go after the users (us)They (dems and reps)are like every else in the world Morality only matters if it dont cost much.The big fear for myself is going after us is good politics its cheap cost effective and the zealots hate us.Thats a vote for the reps or dems is always a vote against yourself.

[tonk]

Perhaps the most enduring legacy of the Clinton years will be the newfound hatred of Christians.

We have been conditioned to think there is a "religous right bogeyman" behind every corner. All of our problems are the fault of the religous right.

Reading Jeff K's quote,"Just what we need, a Born Again Christian President, and a Pentecostal Attorney General. If you added their IQ's together, you still wouldn't break 100."

It is shocking to see the casual ease that people are now attacked simply because of their faith.

Sometimes I feel as though we are in Germany in the mid-thirty's. Except now Christians are to blame instead of Jews.

During Clinton's tenure we saw laws passed banning free speech, banning freedom of religion, banning the right to own a gun all the while hearing about how much we should fear a certain religous minority.

We saw Janet Reno send out a death squad with orders to shoot to kill Randy Weaver on site.(I guess innocent until proven guilty only applies to O.J. Simpson)

We saw a church full of children pumped full of flamable gas and burned to the ground, and for years our government lied about what it had done. (They finally admitted the truth a few years ago.)

It's as though were going right down Adolf Hitler's checklist.

The worst part is, nobody seems to care.