TODAY'S QUESTION...

[REALITY]

I RECEIVED AN E-MAIL TODAY FROM A COMPANY I DO CONSULTING WORK FOR,A BIG WELL KNOWN COMPANY.

IT SEEMS THEY HAVE A 3 DIME LIMIT IN THE NBA.

PLEASE DON'T SAY,"HOW BIG CAN THEY BE IF THEY ONLY TAKE 3 DIMES IN THE NBA?"

THEY LEAVE IT THERE AND TAKE MULTIPLE HITS SO THAT THE NUMBER CAN BE SPREAD AROUND TO AS MANY OF THEIR REGULAR PLAYERS AS POSSIBLE BEFORE THEY MOVE THE LINE.

A CUSTOMER PLAYED A DIME ON THE NET AND 3 DIMES ON THE PHONE,THUS CIRCUMVENTING THE 3 DIME LIMIT.

THAY ASKED ME WHAT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO IN THIS SITUATION.

I RESPONDED ACCORDINGLY:

A.IF IN THE RULES ON YOUR WEB PAGE YOU CLEARLY STATE YOU ONLY TAKE A 3 DIME LIMIT IN A PARTICULAR SPORT AT A PARTICULAR NUMBER,THEN PLAYER ONLY HAS A 3 DIME BET.

B.IF THERE IS NO SUCH DISCLAIMER IN THE RULES AND REGULATIONS,THE PLAYER MUST BE PAID THE 4 DIMES AND WARNED THAT THE NEXT TIME IT HAPPENS THE PLAYER WILL ONLY BE GIVEN CREDIT FOR A 3 DIME PLAY AND IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN AFTER THAT HIS ACCOUNT MAY BE CLOSED.

C.IF THE PLAYER IN QUESTION,WAS WARNED PREVIOUSLY ABOUT THE 3 DIME LIMIT AND PLACED A DIME ON THE NET AND 3 DIMES ON THE PHONE,ONLY HIS PHONE BET WILL BE HONORED HIS 1 DIME INTERNET PLAY WOULD NOT.

COMMENTS OR OPPOSING VIEWS???

REALITY

[Fedya Fussball]

REALITY:

The limit is 3K so honor the 3K and refund 1K and politely tell you client that 3K is the limit -

You do have a file on you client (electronic or otherwise) to know what the wager is now and after the game.

FF



[This message has been edited by Fedya Fussball (edited 02-06-2001).]

[Max the Knife]

Action goes 3 dimes on phone
1 dime on net.
Also if this guy is a player let it go. It is a bet. If sportsbook is a large one $1000 is peanuts. Sportsbook should have fail safe system like sportbet.com not to take over 3 dimes. When bet was taken and game not out of line it is a bet.

[Hamhog]

You ever make a play for the limit, think about it, and decide you want more?
If the sequence is Internet then Phone, I don't see how they can reduce the play.
When the player calls in, the onus should be on the clerk not the player for limits.

[jlpblade]

Reality - Once again you make sense. But this is another case where the bm's software could have precluded the problem either on the net side or the clerk' workstation.

Is clerk s/w as bad or expensive as I've heard? One former local of mine that went to CR a few or more years ago is having some sw developed to use in his shop, but primarily to license, or so I've been told.

Jeff

[mikren]

Who is responsible for monitoring the limits? The player or the book? If a player placed a one dime bet on the internet, wouldn't the book have access to that bet when the phone bet is being placed? Also, many books offer that they will let limits be exceeded, just call them and ask. If the bet is accepted, its accepted. Alternatively you could notify the player before the game goes off that he only has $3,000. I don't like that alternative as much because the rules are constantly changing (e.g. what my limits are, what types of bets I can and can't make etc.). I can't keep up with these changes. My opinion only. I agree with B and C.

[sportshobby]

Reality, before I could answer I would need to know a couple more things:

(1) Is this the type of book that only lets a player play the limit once, no more, even if time has passed and the line changes?

(2) Was there a reasonable amount of time between the internet and phone wagers, say 5 minutes, to allow each bet to be recorded separately and the line to be adjusted?

And by the way, how can they be such a big sportsbook if they only take 3 dimes on the NBA?

[This message has been edited by sportshobby (edited 02-06-2001).]

[Max the Knife]

Reality- I read it over again a big well known joint it is a wager no if ands or buts 4000 not worth the trouble you could lose players because of this. Tell them to set up a fail safe system. $1000 is peanuts. If this guy is a player they would be nuts to screw with him.

[underdog]

reality,

I agree with you. You laid it out fair and square. More books should use you as a consultant.

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sportshobby:
[B]Reality, before I could answer I would need to know a couple more things:

(1) Is this the type of book that only lets a player play the limit once, no more, even if time has passed and the line changes?

YES,IT IS...BUT THEY WILL TAKE MORE IF THEY CAN USE IT...THIS TYPE OF INCREASED PLAY MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE SITTING B.M....

(2) Was there a reasonable amount of time between the internet and phone wagers, say 5 minutes, to allow each bet to be recorded separately and the line to be adjusted?

YES.

And by the way, how can they be such a big sportsbook if they only take 3 dimes on the NBA?

THEY DON'T MOVE THE LINE FOR 3,OOO, THE DON'T MOVE UNTIL 30,000,15,000 IF IT'S THE STEAM,THEY WANT AS MANY PLAYERS AS POSSIBLE TO GET A TASTE AT THE ORIGINAL NUMBER BEFORE THEY MOVE IT.

NOT JUST THE SCREEN CHASERS...

REALITY

[sportshobby]

Because the wagers are separated in time by five minutes, both bets should be honored without a question. The software should perform the same function as the clerks and bookmaker would on a second call from the same player - determine whether to allow more play.

If the software allows a bet, it's a bet. The software gives a confirmation of a bet, it's a bet. Don't tell me there's some fine print guideline somewhere else on the site that the player should have known and followed.

The only case in which the sportsbook has a legitimate gripe, IMHO, is if the player tried to play the phone and net (or two phone calls) at the same time.

[This message has been edited by sportshobby (edited 02-06-2001).]

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sportshobby:
[B]Because the wagers are separated in time by five minutes, both bets should be honored without a question. The software should perform the same function as the clerks and bookmaker would on a second call from the same player - determine whether to allow more play.

YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED AT THE LIMITATIONS OF SOME OF THESE SOFTWARE SYSTEMS...

If the software allows a bet, it's a bet. The software gives a confirmation of a bet, it's a bet. Don't tell me there's some fine print guideline somewhere else on the site that the player should have known and followed.

WHAT IF THE PLAYER HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE THREE DIME RULE AND PERSISTS ON TRYING TO CIRCUMVENT THE LIMIT?

The only case in which the sportsbook has a legitimate gripe, IMHO, is if the player tried to play the phone and net (or two phone calls) at the same time.

IMHO IF A PLAYER HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE LIMIT AND PERSISTS ON TRYING TO CIRCUMVENT THE LIMIT AND I'M THE SITTING B.M,HE GETS ONE WARNING.

I'M PAYING HIM THREE DIMES ONLY AND IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN HIS ACCOUNT WILL BE CLOSED.

THESE ARE ONLY MOVERS ANYWAY AND THAT'S WHY THEY ARE TRYING TO GET THE EXTRA DIME.

IF I'M SITTING IN A HOUSE WHERE THERE IS A 3 DIME LIMIT AND A 3O DIME HOLD AND THERE IS ONLY 10 DIMES ON THE GAME,I'LL GIVE A PLAYER 20 DIMES AS LONG AS I KNOW THAT THE SCREEN IS NOT GOING BLACK 30 SECONDS AFTER I TAKE THE BET.

AS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT NUMEROUS TIMES IN THESE FORUMS THAT IS WHAT LIMITS ARE FOR.

THANKS,F.F.,MAX,HAMHOG,JLPBLADE,MIKREN,UNDERDOG,AN D SPORTSHOBBY FOR THE INPUT...

REALITY

[OLD MAN]

WOULD I BE RIGHT IN MY ASSUMPTION THAT ANYBODY THAT BEATS THE SCREEN TO THE MOVE IS
FINISHED IF YOU'RE RUNNING THE FLOOR?????
DO YOU TELL THE GUY WHO LAID DOWN 10 LARGE
THAT HE CAN HAVE 20 MORE AS LONG AS
THE SCREEN STAYS FROZEN??????? IF THE DISCLAIMER SAYS YOU ONLY HAVE A THREE DIME LIMIT(INTERNET AND PHONE COMBINED), HE HAS A 3 DIME BET. IF IT DOESNT SAY THAT-HE HAS A 4
DIME BET.

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by OLD MAN:

[B]WOULD I BE RIGHT IN MY ASSUMPTION THAT ANYBODY THAT BEATS THE SCREEN TO THE MOVE IS
FINISHED IF YOU'RE RUNNING THE FLOOR?????


NOT AT ALL.
THEY JUST WOULD NEVER GET MORE THAN THE LIMIT...

DO YOU TELL THE GUY WHO LAID DOWN 10 LARGE
THAT HE CAN HAVE 20 MORE AS LONG AS
THE SCREEN STAYS FROZEN???????


I WOULD NEVER GIVE ANYONE I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH MORE THAN THE LIMIT UNLESS IT SUITED MY POSITION AT THE TIME.

IF HE ASKS FOR MORE I PROBABLY WOULD TELL HIM I CAN'T USE IT AND MARK HIS PIN# DOWN AND START CHECKING HIS WORK SO THE NEXT TIME HE ASKS I CAN BETTER SAY YES OR NO...

IF HE SANDBAGS ME AND STARTS PLAYING FOR PEANUTS AND NOTHING HAPPENS AND THEN WHEN HE GETS 10 DIMES THE SCREEN MOVES,GET ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU,GET ME TWICE SHAME ON ME...


IF THE DISCLAIMER SAYS YOU ONLY HAVE A THREE DIME LIMIT(INTERNET AND PHONE COMBINED), HE HAS A 3 DIME BET. IF IT DOESNT SAY THAT-HE HAS A 4
DIME BET.


ABSOLUTELY.

I MOST LIKELY WOULD HONOR THE 4 DIME BET EVEN WITH A DISCLAIMER BECAUSE THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THE INDIVIDUAL READ THE RULES.

IF I HAD THE PERSONAL CONVERSATION WITH THE GENTLEMAN IN QUESTION HE GETS 3 DIMES NOT 4.

NEXT TIME HE GETS SHOWN THE DOOR...

REALITY

[Bookiebar]

I do not see any mention of what you do if the guy loses his 4 dime bet, Do you

1) refund the 1k and tell him if he bets over the limit he will lose it all and if he does it again his account will be closed

2) take the 1k and warn him not to bet over the limit

3) take the 1k and wait till he wins a bet he placed over the limit then warn etc

Odds are if the guys a loser the book loves him and will not be pi$$ing him off by refusing to pay etc.