HR556 - Internet Gambling Bill

[Fedya Fussball]

We're still pushing this one!!!!

Internet gambling legislation introduced in House

A bill that would ban the use of checks, credit cards, and wire transfers for wagering on the Internet has been introduced in the United States House of Representatives by Iowa Republican Jim Leach, who failed to pass similar legislation during the last congressional session.


HR556, known as the Unlawful Internet Gambling Funding Prohibition Act, has been referred to the House Financial Services and Judiciary committees. The bill follows up on recommendations made by the National Gambling Impact Study Commission in 1999 that legislation be passed making wire transfers to fund Internet wagers illegal.


The bill also contains language that defines illegal Internet wagers as those made "by any means which involves the use, at least in part, of the Internet where such bet or wager is unlawful under any applicable federal or state law in the state in which the bet or wager is initiated, received, or otherwise made."


Penalties would be enforceable with fines and prison sentences up to five years according to the bill’s present language.

[AussieVamp2]

hmm, we wonder how many politicians engage in this internet betting that is - 5 years jail?

[aknorman]

FF - Is this Bill going to punish the mere bettor or gambler? If so, this is the first time I've heard of a law that would punish the bettor in this Country (including all 50-states).

As I understand it, only those engaged in or conducting an illegal gambling business (i.e. bookmakers) are criminally liable. This applies both Federally and in all 50-states.
The players conduct is considered LEGAL even though they are betting with an illegal business.

The only effect on a bettor might be that they have to testify against those running the illegal business. And, maybe some tax implications. Other than these, I believe the bettor is immune from any criminal prosecution in this Country. Both Federally and in all 50-states.

Am I missing something here or is this Country now going to punish the bettors if they place bets with any off-shore sports books? Also, does this mean that many of us will have to return to our locals if we wish to enjoy our hobby here? Or, are they now planning on going after the players if they are betting with a bookmaker?

I would really like to hear from the "experts" concering the issues I've raised in this post. Thank you all in advance.

[Jeff]

aknorman,

It would be virtually impossible to go after bettors and the gov't knows this to be true. The department of justice came down hard on this bill the 1st time around, and basically said as much. They were against it.

You are also correct in stating that players are immune from prosecution against an outfit they are betting with.......at least federally. Can't say for sure about each and every state. There has been questions about this raised in Florida and California to name a couple.

[aknorman]

Jeff-Thanks for the reply. In NY State (aka as the Vampire State), the bettor's conduct is considered LEGAL just like Federally. I was hoping to get responses from members who live in other states to find out how their state treats the bettor versus the bookmaker.

Again, I think that I am correct in stating that in NY State, it is LEGAL conduct to be the bettor even if one is betting with those engaged in an illegal gambling business. No exceptions. Obviously, personal (sports) betting is legal conduct just the same as it is for the bettor wagering with the bookmaker.

Thus, I believe it to be a misnomer that all sports gambling is illegal conduct in the USA. It is very important that we get this message out to the general public. The Public's perception is that all sports betting in this Country is illegal, no matter what. Except for in Nevada of course.

Public opinion plays a very important role in a great many decisions in this Country. For example, a long time ago the "johns" conduct was not considered criminal when they solicited a prostitute. The prostitutes conduct was considered unlawful because they were seen as the seducers. However, the Public became very unsympathetic to the "johns" because they considered the whole practice repulsive regardless of who was involved. And, let's not forget Prohibition. Thus, we don't want the Public to see us all as vermin. Once they do, the Government will have no qualms passing laws to punish the bettor too.

To everyone else in NY State. Do you agree or disagree with my assertion that gambling on sporting events is in fact LEGAL conduct in this State, except for the bookmakers. And how about the other 49 States? Let us know.

[Jeff]

I know California is one of the exceptions.....There are a few cases on record of players/bettors being prosecuted.

However, the players we're talking about were deeply involved.

We're not talking $100 bettors. We're talking about moving millions and millions.

In other states though, just take a look at the well publicized cases involving Billy Walters and the Computer group.

These outfits did business with bookmakers across the country as well as offshore. This is public record. This goes back several years and to date, no convictions. As it is, it's the "money laundering" that attracts the authorities, not necessarily the placing of bets in these big cases.

Furthermore, there are cases, specifically in Nevada, where syndicates/movers were raided by police, with the consequences being that their $$$$ was confiscated, and that was the end of it.........

I believe you are 100% correct when you say it's a misnomer that all sportsbetting is illegal. The media is at fault here as well. There an article someone posted on here that states "internet gambling/sportsbetting is illegal in the USA".......this is simply not true. Show me the law that states this. There are a few states that have passes such bills, but no federal laws.

True, Jay Cohen and others were charged, however they were charged with TAKING bets not placing them.

The WIRE ACT was designed for bookmakers, not bettors.

[aknorman]

bringing this back up to the top. c'mon guys this is something that effects all of us. we ought to at least know the law in our state regarding this.

this seems to draw so much negative attention from the public. maybe we can change the way the public views us regarding sports gambling. postively, as law abiding citizens so long as we are just the bettors or players. instead we're seen as law-breakers by them.

thanks in advance.

[This message has been edited by aknorman (edited 02-19-2001).]

[hiptwo]

i just did a search for gambling,internet gambling for iowa did not come up with anything. bingo is ok what the hell! i guess watch the corn grow and freze your ass off is all we need. play bingo,stay warm

[Jeff]

I think a large number of people who wager online have no clue as to the laws pertaining to not only internet wagering, but wagering in general.

I also think the general public could care less. I mean, it's only important to people like us. People who wager online, and that figure is a very small percentage of the population.

Go out on the street and randomly ask people their views of internet gambling, and I think you'll find most people have no views on the subject, and haven't given it any thought.

[MarkDel]

Aknorman,

It's been a while since I took the New York State Bar Exam (I am trying to block out all memories of my brief legal career) but I believe you are correct in your assertions about NY state law when it comes to players. The only things is, they do have some maximum wager amount (I believe it was $5000 in total bets on any given event) that raises a presumption of bookmaking since it's assumed that the mere player does not place a wager that large...thus there's some inference that you have to rebut that you are "laying off" that wager. This may be somewhat inaccurate, bbut that seems to be the rough version of what I remember.

[JC]

While I agree with you that placing a bet in NY is legal, the prosecutors in my case don't.

[Jeff]

Had they agreed that it was legal to place bets, just not receive them, how would that have changed the case?

[MarkDel]

JC,

The people prosecuting you have absolutely no integrity and have clearly bent every rule or outright lied in their efforts to secure a conviction. Right from Mary Jo down to the judge, they acted dishonestly in your case.

[JC]

We maintain that it i slegal to place a bet in NY. See my appellate brief Point II.

We maintain that we fall under the exemption in the law, section 1084 (b), a section the jury was not allowed to see or consider.

[Fedya Fussball]

JC:
Placing a $5000 bet at Aquaduct is legal -
Because in all matters and mostly financial
the state gets a cut in taxes...

Now WSEX is legal in Antigua (This is a foreign country now) and because a $5000 punt returns $0 in taxes back to the states, prosecutors are stemmed from seeing this action as legal. More so the perception of control is gone. The internet has sent the legal authorities, prosecutors and their likes to have no ability of control because most of the *illegal* transaction is based outside the USA. What is questionable and interesting to see how it survives US Government pressure is the Neteller and paypal phenomena of a clearinghouse intermediaries between the punter and offshore bookie.

Something has to be said about how this Internet gambling phenomena is similiar to the failed Prohibition acts of 1930 and alcohol. The US Government sooner or later realized that banning alcohol was a lost cause, especially in areas close to the Canadian border. (notice Canada is sovereign country). Better that continue banning a substance which could be taxed and bring in the government money, the US Government finally revert to making a profit$ from its consumption.

One day, the US Government (States as well) will have to realize that banning an action such as gambling is futile, especially when controlling it on the Internet is hard to do. No matter what hole they try to fill a new one will appear.

The way this article is written is that the punter now is seen as the cause of illegal activity, which is different from previous focal points of attention - The bad ol' bookie!