**Referral Bonuses** **sportsbooks please read**

[Jeff]

Furthermore, your example is way off base.

If a player CALLS YOU FOR YOUR OPINION, then by all means, that's what referrals are for.

However, if you came in here planting your email address all over the place for people to use you for referrals,MUCH DIFFERENT.

[azbob]

I have been in situations where I have both received and given referrals based on information from the forum.

I think it is reasonable for the books to think that they advertise here to be included in the list at the top as I, and hopefully many others, realize that those are the best options out there.

Being on the list means you're up for consideration.

From that group I would rely on personal feedback in the forum and, if based on that feedback I choose Book A over Book B, I would without doubt toss the referral to the appropriate person.

It seems to me that it would be relatively easy for the books to track who is mis-using the referral system and they already have plenty of rules in place to ensure that players are not strictly depositing for the bonuses.

If they offer the bonus, I think we should utilize it per the rules.

Also regarding the posting forums, in this business model, the site doesn't refer customers. It merely provides the forum where experienced players share knowledge.

I have plenty of friends but I wouldn't go to any of them for advice on where to put my Sportsbook dollars. I would come to the forum and rely on D-Goon, Frank, Hart Attack, Kevin, Jason D, etc.

I've never met any of those posters so they are not "friends" but, I'll use one of those posters for my referral.

[krackman]

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[This message has been edited by krackman (edited 03-29-2001).]

[Jeff]

Again, the best example to use, and this is an actual example that has happened repeatedly, is when someone comes in here for the 1st time, and asks for opinions. Now remember, he doesn't know which posters carry weight, who's been around the longest, etc.etc.........No sooner does this guy get the request typed out, and he's got someone asking him to email them. It's like a guy walking on the beach with a metal detector!

Another good actual example, is a guy asking opinions....... guy comes in and says, hey, I've played with.....and proceeds to list 10 books. Then says, if you'd like info on them, email me at [email protected]

In that scenario, we are paying all the costs associated with this site so this guy can run his own sideshow!

We even emailed a few of these guys from our own hotmail accounts to see what was up........you'd be surprised! Some of these guys had a helluva business going!!!

Look, we saw some things that made us absolutely sick and decided to take a stand on the issue.

The majority of the guys that have been around here a long time don't abuse the system and the message isn't aimed at them.

The message is aimed at those that do abuse it, and they know who they are.

We've also heard from plenty of books that agree 100%.

It's the guys that do abuse the system, that make it hard on everybody else..........

[Jeff]

Let me also add, that we contacted just about every good forum out there, and discussed this issue with them. Seems many of the same guys practice their trade at ALL the forums.......

All the site owners we spoke with shared our views......

The intended purpose of the forums, is for players to share information about the books and sportsbetting.

Players accuse sites of having biased opinions because of the advertising.

So, the only thing that can make the information in the forums pure, is the UNBIASED opinions of the visitors.

Throw a referral hog into the mix, and now the information in the forums is diluted.

If allowed to grow, the forums will be a place with no true opinions, and at that point, they will do no one any good.

What about the books that don't have referal bonuses? Or don't have a referal bonus as good as someone else?

We'd rather have fewer posters with solid opinions than a forum filled with guys running their referal businesses.

[sportshobby]

I agree with almost all of Jeff/Brian's points on this issue - a referral hog not only takes money that he doesn't deserve, he also dilutes the quality of the forum by pushing those books from which he gets the biggest referral.

But I do think there are cases in which a poster deserves the referral bonus. For all the posts and recommendations I've made, I've collected a total of two referral bonuses for $500 from the forum. These were really cases in which the poster signed up with the book based on my opinions, and I don't feel guilty about it.

[cecil]

Jeff, I have never taken a referral, and I can see your point on that, however saying that there opinions are diluting the forum seems a bit strong. If the player is playing there, it seems doubtful that they would have a negative opinion on the book, and still look for referral. Now a true example of diluting the forum would be offering money for whoever posts the most messages.

[Bettorstalk]

Seems like to me that the best resolution would be for the sportsbooks to get a black list of people that are continually doing this referral bonus, because you always have bad apples in any industry and you can't let a few bad apples ruin it for everyone.

[Jeff]

*Sportshobby- Right on the money about diluting the forum. As for people who post in the forums getting referrals, again, your right. In cases like yours, you should have received alot more than two.....you provide solid feedback to the forums that is useful to all.

*cecil- The posting contest- Diluting the forum? Perhaps. I'll give you that one. Point well taken. But remember, that's a promotion that won't be constant. Again, we spend a small fortune advertising. Hopefully, when someone see's or hears our ads, comes to check out the site, things like that will stick with a few of them. Tons of people visit the site, but so many, for whatever reason, are afraid to post. We are trying to change that, for everyones benefit.

*Bettorstalk - I guess that would seem to be an answer, but the books have enough to do with daily administrative work. It's doubtful they would take the time, although we have heard from several that are taking steps to stop the obvious.

Again, I don't want to be misunderstood. In order for me to really get the point across, I'd have to give specific examples and I don't want to do that. But as I said before, the only ones that are truely pissed off are the ones that were running referral businesses from the forum, and believe me when I tell you, they were running businesses.

Remember these two blatant examples please:

One, the guy coming in telling a 1st time poster to email him if he wants info on 7 books........that's great, a forum set up for people to share views, but the only way to get this guys opinion, is to email him......

Two, Another first time poster looking for a book being told to email someone......when he emails this person, he's explained how the referral process works and off they go.

Now in example two specifically, this is obviously NOT a case of someone who deserves a referral. He's not referring a friend, it's a stranger. The stranger isn't signing up because of some opinion he gave out in the forum. He's signing up because this guy grabbed him to split a referal bonus.

I guess this topic has just about run it's course.......in the end, it's no big deal really......but it felt great to beat the beaters!

[chamilun]

Hey Jeff, if youre lookin for a book...

seriously, if someone comes to say bettorsworld looking for a good/reputable book, obviously the first things he should notice is the many links across the top of the page. These links should go to REVIEWS, not directly to the book site. something that could thwart this type referral system that is being discussed is to make reviews of these sportsbooks TOUGHER as posted on bettorsworld. The reviews Ive read seem way too generic, making it difficult to distinguish between the many books Tougher reviews would separate the wheat from the chaff; of course, advertising revenue could plummet. i dont know.
Also, it needs to be more apparent the cost of running a site such as this and the importance of ad-revenue to the guarantee that bettorsworld will be around for the 2010 final 4. Any schmuck that gives some nobody a referral is a naive jackass anyway.

Let me know if Im off base here

chamilun
luck to all

[parlay]

i have to agree w/azbob. i would never post up w/a book w/o giving someone i know a bonus. and when someone asks for an opinion, i will gladly give it and tell them to make sure they get someone a referral bonus.
the cost in nominal to the books. most players sign up for $500 or less and then you are talking about 5 or 10% of that as a bonus. that is the equivalent of 1 juice free bet.
while i am sure there are folks out there scamming, that is up to the books to police that action.
while i appreciate the service provided by this site, you more than earn your advertising dollars with the hits you attract and the emails you send out.
campaigning for the end of referral bonuses gives creedence to your detractors that claim you are an arm of the books.
these small bonuses can't begin to break the books. when the larger players post up, then pay more attention. if they are having financial problems, they should look elsewhere.
it's a competitive industry and it should stay that way. if it appears that they are colluding against the player, i know i will just run back to my local and advocate others do the same.