WHAT IS A BAD OR MIS-POSTED LINE???

[REALITY]

AS A PLAYER HOW MUCH OFF THE MEDIAN DON BEST LINE WOULD YOU CONSIDER A LINE TO BE BAD OR MIS-POSTED IN REGARDS TO:

A.FOOTBALL SIDE:

TOTAL:

B.BASKETBALL SIDE:

TOTAL:

C.HOCKEY SIDE:

TOTAL:
(INCLUDE GOALS AND MONEY)

D.BASEBALL SIDE:

TOTAL:
(INCLUDE RUNS AND/OR MONEY)

I BELIEVE THE BOOKS READING THIS WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THE RESPONSES AS A MEASURE OF HOW FAIR AND HONEST THE PLAYERS CAN BE IN THESE SITUATIONS.

TRY TO BE REALISTIC IN YOUR ANSWER AS IT MIGHT HAVE A BEARING ON HOW SERIOUSLY THE BOOKS MIGHT CONSIDER GOING ON RECORD AND ADOPTING A UNIFIED POLICY IN REGARDS TO THIS ISSUE...

REALITY

[Hamhog]

Reality,

I would differentiate between (A) Mainstream offers like those you listed and (B) Props, Futures, etc.. There should also be a distinction between lines that have been "double confirmed" or not. It also makes a differance how long a book takes to cancel a play. If someone made a play on a futures event with a bad line, I think the book should be held to a higher standard 1 month down the road than the next day.

For A it would probably be fair to label any line that gave the player a 70% play vs a 1.1 line. Maybe the equivalent of a theoretical 37% return on the dollars at risk. You can't just use a point value in football because each number has a different value.

For B the standard would have to be a lot higher. On the Academy awards the majority of books had Ang Lee -250 to win the best director. A few had him at even money. As far as I know, nobody cancelled. The sum of the odds on the exotics also very widely from shop to shop. Olympic has a total around 122% on some futures. I have seen others that total 166%. Not fair to compare the shops.

Futures odds vary widely from shop to shop as well. Olympic opened Bobby Labonte at 12/1 to win this weekends NASCAR rates. Other shops had him at 6/1.

I think it would be hard to quantify a rule across the board. I think Olympics clause that allows them to cancel plays on reasonable grounds is probably the best policy.

As a player if a book cancels a play for a BS reason, it is not like it cost anything more than the theoretical return on a unit or two. It is easy enough to switch shops. I never have understood the players who try to crucify shops for bad line cancellations that in actuality probably were mistakes. The time spent extorting could easily be put to far more productive use.


My two cents.

Hamhog

[TheMiddleMan]

Ham you saud
As a player if a book cancels a play for a BS reason, it is not like it cost anything more than the theoretical
return on a unit or two.

But if your like me and playing middles and then got 1 sided for a couple of dimes it costs alot. Put a bad line then eat it period!

[REALITY]

REALITY
Member posted 03-30-2001 12:33 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Railbird:
Julia Roberts was -250,-450,-1000,-2000,-2500 on the same night,which was the off line.

Gladiato was -375,-250,-187,+120,+200,+300 with in 2 days.which is the bad line?


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IN REALITY,NO PUN INTENDED, IT IS VERY HARD TO DETERMINE WHAT ARE BAD LINES WITH THESE PROPOSITION WAGERS BECAUSE THEY DON'T APPEAR ON DON BEST WHERE A BAD LINE WOULD STICK OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB.

IN REGARDS TO THIS CONVERSATION WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A 5 DIME BET AND A 5 POINT MIS-POSTED LINE WHICH CAN EASILY BE INDENTIFIED AS SUCH BY REFERING TO THE MEDIAN LINE THAT APPEARS ON DON BEST OR BY VISITING 4 OR 5 ON-LINE BOOKS AND CHECKING THE LINE.

PLEASE SPARE IT'S NOT THE CUSTOMERS JOB TO CHECK LINES.

THAT IS JUST AN ATTEMPT TO RATIONALIZE STEALING AND CHEATING WHICH IN FACT THIS IS.

EVEN SOME OF REALITY'S BIGGEST FANS WEIGH IN ON THE SIDE OF THE BOOK ON THIS ONE.

EVEN MY DEAR FRIEND KOSAR WHO WOULD LIKE TO BEAT THE BOOKS LIKE A DRUM, BUT HE WOULD LIKE TO DO IT ON THE SQUARE.

THE ABOVE IS A BAD EXAMPLE FOR THE REASON STATED ABOVE.

REALITY


HAMHOG,

I ADDRESSED THIS ISSUE HERE.

IF YOU WOULD JUST FILL IN THE BLANKS ABOVE YOUR ANSWER WOULD CARRY MUCH MORE WEIGHT AS THOSE CASUAL PLAYERS WON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY.

A THOUGHTFUL ANSWER NONE THE LESS...

REALITY

[DeacDoug]

As I stated before, professional BMs MUST do a better job of eliminating mistakes. Although mistakes are inevitable in any business, they can be reduced to a minimum. Booking is not just a matter of copying the Don Best line, sometimes wrongly, and moving it on air.

On the other hand, a bettor has to be a damn fool to take a bad line and try to middle it for 5 grand on each side. You better like the side with the correct line because that's what you are likely to wind up with. In the same vein, BMs have a SUBSTANTIAL DUTY AND OBLIGATION to inform bettors BEFORE AN EVENT STARTS that the bet on the mistaken line has been cancelled for this reason. If not, the ticket certainly should go as written.

The bottom line is that in post-up gambling the BMs have all the hole cards and a commensorate duty to treat customers fairly. Unhappy customers tend to post any PERCEIVED unfair treatment on Boards like these and the rest of us players can decide whether or not we want to post up with that establishment.

[REALITY]

THE PURPOSE OF THIS POST IS FOR PLAYERS TO FILL IN THE BLANKS SO THE BOOKS CAN GET A CONSENSUS VIEW OF WHAT THE PLAYERS THINK IS FAIR.

ALL COMMENTS WELCOME BUT FILLING IN THE BLANKS WILL SEND THE BOOKS YOUR MESSAGE...

REALITY

[Hamhog]

TheMiddleMan,

The cost on the play you were stuck with, presuming the line you were stuck with is reaonably accurate (why else would you middle the game?) is only 4.5% unless you have a Reno like curse on you.

[Hamhog]

Reality,

I would have filled in the blanks if I thought it was that easy. A baseball total in Colorado off a run is different than a Greg Maddux/Randy Johnson total that is off a run.

I don't think books can quantify their bad line policy. It is a judgement call. Some books will honor bad line action provided the customer made their normal unit bet. Provided the line is not exponentially wrong, that policy probably saves a lot of headaches.

[jlpblade]

REALITY:

I am only shopping among six accounts now, but I occasionally find baskets totals off by 3 points when some shop hasn't been hit yet or doesn't move on air. If I play the original number, I should never be 'bad lined'.

JM2c,
Jeff

P.S. I think this argument really pertains to opening lines, but what happens to those shops that have opinions?

[This message has been edited by jlpblade (edited 03-30-2001).]

[REALITY]

A TOTAL 3 POINTS OFF IN THE MORNING COULD NEVER BE CONSIDERED A BAD LINE:

WHY?

BOOK A. TOTAL 87.5

BET THE LIMIT OVER.

NEW LINE 88.5 OR 89.

BOOK B. TOTAL 86.5

BET THE LIMIT UNDER.

NEW LINE 85.5 OR 85.

DIFFERENCE: 3 OR 4 POINTS

REALITY

[Rich]

in the other thread i first posted 5 but reality convinced me it should be a bit lower
while is equal to 2.5 points it's usually more "obvious on a money line" 30,and 32.5
dont seem as off as +110 and +160 but in
exchange for these relatively low spreads it
must be from any point in any donbest line
history also a point in an bball total isnt worth as much as in any other sport so perhaps 6 points would be better for those
bets

[Railbird]

Football 10 pts
Basketball 12pts
Baseball 95cents.

up to a 1000.00 dollars. liability.

that is what the airlines liability is.

If you go shoping at the mall,and the wrong price tag is on its the stores fault.its is all a part of doing buisness.

[kosar]

Originally posted by Railbird:


Football 10 pts
Basketball 12pts
Baseball 95cents.

up to a 1000.00 dollars. liability.

that is what the airlines liability is.

If you go shoping at the mall,and the wrong price tag is on its the stores fault.its is all a part of doing buisness.

WTF does an airlines liability have to do with anything?

As far as your shopping analogy, if you really believe that because the price tag is missing a decimal point due to the stores error, you are entitled to the merchandise at a 90% discount, then you are nothing more than a common thief.

But then again, that seems to be the prevailing attitude on this issue so it's really not that surprising.

[Railbird]

A theif is a house breaker or shoplifter,not buying something or gamblimg something.It isnt like the punter has a say in the matter anyway,in the offshore game the BM is holding the cheese anyway,its his decision that is final.

[REALITY]

KOSAR,

RIGHT ON THER MONEY...

REALITY