HELP! Opinion on Prop Language needed

[tcrandal]

I bet on a MNF prop, and I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on the language of the bet.

The Prop:

Will either team (NYG or PHL) score three straight times? (3 unanswered scores)+140 NO -140 YES

Of course the NYG scored 3 fg's in a row, but phl answered the 3rd. Am I grasping for straws or does the bet imply that all 3 scores need to be unanswered????

I'd like to get everyone's opinion to see if I should protest or not.

Thanks! :confused:

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Maxspeed ]

[Juice]

In this case if you bet YES, you are a winner. If you bet NO, you lost.
Just like in hockey, If the Red Wings are winning 3-0, they've obviously scored 3 straight times. Regardless of what the opposing team does, the Wings scored three times in a row.

[tcrandal]

I guess that would be clear if the Prop didn't include the language: 3 UNANSWERED SCORES.

It's probably just a misunderstanding on my part. Logic in my mind would dictate:

1st score: FG Giants - Unanswered
2nd score: FG Giants - Unanswered
3rd score: FG Giants - Answered w/ FG PHL

Thanks for your feedback!

[spider]

Maxspeed:

You are correct - the two phrases are very different. Scoring three consecutive times is absolutely different from three unanswered scores. Unfortunately for you, the primary phrase is "three consecutive scores". The phrase in parenthesis is attempting to clarify things (which it fails to do) but I don't think you have much recourse since the primary phrase is quite clear. Its probably worth an e-mail to let them know that their language is contradictory - they might even offer up some sort of compensation.

[Karol]

I have to say this is interesting....."three consecutive scores" followed by a parenthetical comment of '3 unanswered scores" is literally two different things......

Is that exactly how it was worded? They gave you two props in one the way that is worded. It should have read "three unanswered scores" with a parenthetical comment of what 'unanswered' means. Three "consecutive" scores with a hindsight disclaimer of 'unanswered' doesn't cut in in my opinion.

Working for 10 years in the business at LVSC with the sports books, we really had to cover our disclaimers correctly...Gaming would probably rule in favor of the bettor on this one...just because of the confusing nature of the prop.

Good luck! :cool: I think you should at least get a refund...and if I was running the place...I'd give you the winner to assure keeping you as a customer.

[tcrandal]

Well it's good to know my logic isn't defunct. I've sent 3 memos to the folks at Caribsports on this, and they said they checked with their "provider" and the outcome was correct. I have no qualms with the 3 Straight scores portion of the bet, but the 3 Unanswered scores was indeed the exact wording of the bet.

I suppose I will be more careful in the future with reading the props that they provide, if I ever bet with them again. I guess it's my own fault for getting into such an appealing bet.

Even their reply stated 3 unanswered scores again in the memo:

"Hello, , thanks for your patience. There was no error in that prop posting. All necessary stipulations were posted to erase ambiguity 3 unanswered scores, does not necessarily mean 3 straight possessions, extra point and 2 point conversions do not
count). Therefore touchdowns, field goals, and safties do. The Giants scored 3 unanswered field goals meaning that they scored 3 straight times before being answered by the Eagles. Your wager is therefore correctly graded a loss. We will,however, once more reverify with our providers for your peace of mind. Thank you. Sean"

[Karol]

I still disagree with what they did. The prop was written poorly in my opinion...score three straight times and three unanswered scores are two different things. Three straight times means that the fourth score, regardless of which team did it would be irrelevant. It should have been written three unanswered scores to begin with and there wouldn't have been any question.

I could beat this to death but it won't do any good.

They wrote it clearly in their minds and if you sit and really read it, yes, the parenthesis covered them and they are right because the third score was answered. It just shouldn't have been written that way and hopefully they've learned from it.

I'd still pay you for the aggravation that they caused. So many books like to put up props yet so few know how to properly word things so that both the bettor and the book are on the same page.

They need to go back to bookmaking 101 and quit putting people in there that have great prop ideas and no clue as to the potential pitfalls of misleading or unclear wording. In this case, I would say it was misleading.

[Terminus]

For anyone that cares... Here is the text of the prop ... They offer it again tonight with the Colts/Chiefs:

"(Will Either Team Score 3 Straight Times)(3 Unanswered Times Without Other Team Scoring;Does not Necessarily Mean 3 Straight Possessions;Excludes Extra Points & 2 Pts. Conversion) "

I never questioned the prop, it seemed pretty clear to me. I guess I just didn't really pay attention to the Unanswered part...

Terminus

[Dragon]

Bottom line is they made a simple bet confusing as hell by trying to clarify it. All they have to say is 3 consecutive scores. The unanswered part is what really confuses things, because Maxspeed is right, they DID answer the last score.

They should say, will either team score 3 in a row, and give the following example:

Philly, Philly, Philly = win
Philly, Philly, NYG = loss
philly, philly, philly, NYG = win

[Cashew]

3 consecutive scores means 3 scores in a row

3 unanswered scores means 4 scores in a row...you don't know the third score is unanswered unless you score again for a fourth time

i think books purposely makes the wording ambiguous so they can screw you

ANYTHING LESS THAN A FULL REFUND FOR YOU IS UNACCEPTABLE SO LET US KNOW WHAT HAPPENS

I WILL BE PRAYING FOR YOU

[tcrandal]

I wrote this one off, they insist the bet is worded properly.. Again, it was due to my newness with wagering on the props, so I'll take partial responsibility.

Logic doesn't dictate in all realms I guess.

[My Evil Twin]

This prop always seems to cause confusion IN FOOTBALL. I've never seen it questioned in hockey.

In football, I've heard bettors complain (AFTER the game, of course) that 3 CONSECUTIVE scores or 3 STRAIGHT scores implies consecutive POSSESSIONS. Only twice, though, have I heard a player claim the other team "answered".

One time, the Broncos scored on their first possession; got a turnover; scored on their second possession; got a turnover; and missed a field goal on their third possession.

At this point, a player brought his ticket to the window, because he thought he won. "But they MISSED that fieldgoal!...Oh, I thought it was the FIRST 3 possessions!"

Others have thought all 3 scores had to come in the same QUARTER to beat them.

BTW, on Sunday, when the Chargers came back from a 19-0 deficit to take a 20-19 lead, play-by-play announcer Kevin Harlan shouted, "the Chargers have scored 20 unanswered points to take the lead!"

Then they went to commercial, and when they came back, Harlan told viewers "...just joining us, the San Diego Chargers have scored 20 unanswered points..."

I only mention that because if I wrote that you guys, with your definition of "unanswered points", were in the minority, you wouldn't believe me.

If you guys have a suggestion on how this prop should be worded, I'd like to hear it.

The book you guys quoted appears to have made every effort possible to AVOID this confusion. I've never seen such a long, detailed explanation, clearly an effort to AVOID this type of confusion.

And don't suggest that the best solution is that the books shouldn't offer it; it's too much of a money maker for the books, so that won't happen.

Again, no hockey bettor has ever questioned it, whether listed as 3 STRAIGHT, 3 UNANSWERED, or 3 CONSECUTIVE.

(Yeah, I'm a bookmaker, but I don't work for any book mentioned in this thread.)

[moon]

It should simply state-
Three consecutive scores during the course of the game. (not including extra points... 1's or 2's)

[My Evil Twin]

Moon,

That one caused more confusion. Put the word "Consecutive" in there, and players wail that means, "consecutive possessions", without being stopped in between.

In hockey, "consecutive" works fine.

Trust me, if you use "consecutive", someone will holler. If you use "unanswered", someone will holler. And if you "3 straight" or "3 in a row", someone will holler.

In my experience, "Consecutive" causes much more controversy than "unanswered".

I've tried them all, and have been unable to find one that pleased everybody.