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**Railbird** · 05-31-2002, 10:06 PM

Holyfield will win this tournament if he wants too. Im not sure if Lewis is a hetrosexual, Tyson has never won an impressive fight in his life. Rachman is a tomatoe can. Holyfield got screwed by the Refs in all the Ruiz fights. Holyfield is the best fighter in our generation. Ali was deralict of duty, and has led Rachman and Tyson into a false religion with a false god. They will all 3 be crushed with that false god of theres. Lets say a prayer for all the boxers, that they might come to know the true and living God. And they no one gets injured. Jesus Christ is the messiah and the only way to eternal life. It is by the grace of God that are sins are clean and forgiven. The Blood of Jesus makes us as white as snow. Our good works are as filthy rags to God.

**stardust** · 06-01-2002, 12:12 AM

I like Rahman and Tyson here, but wagered on Tyson @ +197 and not Rahman.

Bird - what does the sexuality of the fighter have to do with anything?

Does every post have to be dripping Catholicism?

Some of my best friends are true believers in Jesus Christ, but if they pushed it as hard as you do, we wouldn't be friends long. How about giving it a rest?

**The Prophet** · 06-01-2002, 03:32 AM

Does Lennox like show tunes?

I wouldn't care if Lewis co-habitated with Richard Simmons and dressed like Diana Ross at home. He conducts himself with class outside the ring and is a credit to the sport. When he has his head in the fight he's a pretty fair fighter. He doesn't commit crimes (in the ring or out), and he's never bitten another fighter's ear off.

I haven't been to church since I discovered you could bet on NFL games, but I do remember a few Bible verses such as this one:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, and whosoever believith in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life".

I'm paraphrasing that off the top of my head, so it may not be 100% correct. I am pretty sure, however, that there was no "small print" saying that gays are excluded from this deal.

There are good people and bad people of every race, color, creed, religion--and sexual orientation. Mike Tyson is an unrepenant heterosexual (his threats at the Lewis press conference to "f*ck up the ass" notwithstanding), Lewis may or may not be gay. Who would you want living next door to you? When they walk into the ring in Memphis next weekend, does it matter who they slept with the night before?

I'm no theologen (and I may not have even spelled it right) but my understanding is that the whole deal with Jesus is the forgiving of sin. I may not agree with how others live their lives, and may even find what they do repellent or immoral. That doesn't relieve me from the specific instructions that are given to us by "the cat upstairs" (to quote Sammy Davis, Jr.) to love our fellow man. I'm also aware that our Creator is the guy who pulls the ping-pong balls to determine who wins and loses the game of "afterlife lotto". We can try to interpret or understand His will, but, much like the NBA, he rigs the game and it is completely out of our hands.

Maybe I'm unusual in this respect but I could really care less about what people do in bed and with whom. As I mentioned in the Mike Piazza discussion, as long as he's not screwing dead people, children or animals I don't give a rats ass what he (or anyone else) does and with whom. If he hits a game winning double when I've bet on him, I like him. If he hits a game winning double when I've bet against him, I don't like him. If he's my neighbor and he's nice to me, the wife and my dogs I don't care if he shares a bed with a girl named Mary or a guy named Steve. If my neighbor is a jackass, the fact that he's heterosexual wouldn't be much of a mitigating factor.

I wouldn't want people to assume that I'm some sort of immoral degenerate just because I wager on sporting events. I'm of the opinion that homosexuals deserve the same reservation of judgement and the right to be judged on the basis of their individual character.

Anyway, I digress.......I think Holyfield will elbow and headbutt his way to a win over Rahman. I don't have a clue who will win Tyson/Lewis. I share the opinion that Max Kellerman expressed on Friday Night Fights this evening--until they get in the ring it's 50/50 the fight goes off at all. I wish a book was offering a "fight won't happen" prop because it would be worth a shot if the price was right. To many "if's" in my opinion to take a big position on the fight itself--but if Lewis fights a smart fight and doesn't let Mike intimidate him I have a hunch he'll win. The last time that Tyson fought a credible opponent was Holyfield, and assuming Diana...er....Lennox....stays out of a brawl and dictates the style of the fight I just don't think Iron Mike has the skills left to hang with him. Teddy Atlas (who used to train Tyson) is of the opinion that if Mike can't get to Lennox early he'll get himself DQ'd. If he loses cleanly (in Atlas' opinion) he's no longer relevant but if he loses by DQ or does something outrageous he's still got the same "freak show" appeal he has now. I place a lot of importance on mental toughness--not only in boxing but all sports and life in general. Not sure how mentally tough Lennox is, but I *know* that Tyson is the antithesis of mentally tough. Much like the Roadrunner always confounded the Coyote despite Wile E's apparently unlimited line of credit at ACME, I think Lennox will find a way to outwit and frustrate Tyson while avoiding his power shots.

JRM
THE PROPHET
www.netprophetsports.com

Originally posted by stardust
Bird - what does the sexuality of the fighter have to do with anything?

Does every post have to be dripping Catholicism?

Some of my best friends are true believers in Jesus Christ, but if they pushed it as hard as you do, we wouldn't be friends long. How about giving it a rest?

**Jeff** · 06-01-2002, 08:24 AM

Wrote a couple of articles for the fights.....

http://www.bettorsworld.com/web/oddswiz/holy.shtml

http://www.bettorsworld.com/web/oddswiz/tyson.shtml

sword1 is right on the money with Tyson.

As in any fight, if he lands on the button, he can win.

Other than that, he doesn't belong in the ring next week.

To sau he hasn't founght anyone in 5 years is being nice. Actually he's had two meaningful fights in 11 years. Both with Holyfield. Both loses. Prior to the 1995 fight, he fought Ruddock in 1991.

1995
Aug. 19 -- Peter McNeeley, Las Vegas, W DSQ 1
Dec. 16 -- Buster Mathis, Jr., Philadelphia, KO 3

1996
Mar. 16 -- Frank Bruno, Las Vegas, TKO 3
(Won WBC Heavyweight Title)
Sept. 7 -- Bruce Seldon, Las Vegas, TKO 1
(Won WBA Heavyweight Title)

The absolute most difficult thing to do in boxing is to fight in a REAL fight after a long layoff. There's no replacement for ACTUAL rounds in a real fight.

Anyone remember Sugar Ray Leonard trying to come back after a 5 yr layoff against Terry Norris?? He looked like a bad club fighter.

How about Boom Boom Mancini when he came back against Greg Haugen after a long layoff? Looked like an amature.

Holmes vs Tyson.....

There's a ton of others.

Boxing is all about speed and timing. Both left Tyson years ago.

Just looking at this fight from a common sense standpoint, it's a mismatch.

But then this is boxing. Anything can happen and usually does. Especially with Don King involved..........

**sleuth** · 06-01-2002, 10:24 AM

Tyson to win only to set up more pay days. If he loses I will be shocked but glad.

**Jeff** · 06-01-2002, 11:42 AM

Sad but true.

I've been a HUGE boxing fan my whole life.

I'd love for the game to be pure.

But you can't ignore what's gone on in boxing over the years, to the point that wagering serious money on fights is risky business.

I mentioned that in the Holyfield write up. Holyfield - Tyson is the biggest money fight out there.

With that in the back of my mind, I'd tread a little lighter with Lewis if Holyfield wins tonight.

No one wants to see Holyfield vs Lewis AGAIN.

**sword1** · 06-01-2002, 12:50 PM

Jeff,

I agree with you - the foul plays with the judging in boxing make betting on boxing a risky business. However I don't think that will be a problem with the Lewis fight. If you your betting on Lewis you can be assured that it would be impossible to payoff Lewis to lose the fight. It would not be impossible for King to get to the judges, but the likelyhood of this fight going to the score cards is very low indeed. Tyson is not the type of fighter to allow himself get outboxed for 12 rounds. He would rather get disqualified then actually lose the fight. I see only three real possiblities Lewis by KO, Disqualification of Tyson, or if the lucky punch happens Tyson by KO.

On another note - the money is continuing to come in on Holyfield- it is now Rahman -120 at Carib. I may be wrong about Rahman and if I am its going to be a costly lession as I can not resist placing more money on Rahman at -120. I just think there tremendous value on Rahman. I also think that public has the image of the great Warrior that Holyfield once was and that is affecting the line. In his prime this would not even be a fight. However this is not his prime he is 2 months from 40 and 35 years is old for boxing. It seems to me that boxers life stories always begin and end bad. Its the boxers circle of life. It's not hard to seem the similiarities between Ali and Holyfield each going on way past there time. Chavez and Duran also come to mind. I just hope Holyfield get out before serious damage is done. I can think of three boxers who will dispell the boxers circle of life I just described. I think they will be Lewis, Mosely, and Delahoya. I think all these guys will retire at the appropriate time and live normal lifes.

**Jeff** · 06-01-2002, 05:47 PM

I think Holyfield may already have taken one too many punches. Watching him for like the past 15 years, there's a very noticeable change in his speech. He's starting to sound like Thomas Hearns.....

And yes, he's right at that age where they all come tumbling down. The major difference between him and Ali for example, at this point in their careers, it Ali couldn't even get in decent shape for a fight towards the end.

Rahman could be to Holyfield what Trevor Berbick was to Ali.

Lewis talks about retiring very soon. We'll see. His career will never be complete because the fight everyone wanted never happened, Lewis vs Bowe.

Surprised Bowe hasn't come back yet......

**sword1** · 06-02-2002, 07:32 AM

Well I was wrong the old warrior still had something left. He actually looked pretty good which is amazing at his age. I think it was a good fight with Holyfield derservingly winning the decision. I scored him up by one point. However it was also clear from the scoring that they had an agenda and that was for Holyfield to win no matter what. There was no way two of the judges should have scored the fight 69-64 espicially since the last round was not scored.

**Jeff** · 06-02-2002, 08:56 AM

Interesting the way people view/score fights......

When I added up my scorecard, it came up 69-64 Holyfield as well. But I admit ti wanting Holyfield to win.

But I also look at Holyfield as one of the greats, and when scoring a fight with him, I think the opponent has to decisively win the round in order to give it to him. He's gotta go get it. Even rounds I give to Holyfield.

Rahman said the welt was bothering him. I don't know. Maybe......but he had about one round before he would have been put to sleep last night.

Well, half of the conspiracy theory is in place

**sleuth** · 06-02-2002, 02:23 PM

I thought it was a miserable fight. Both men holding on from the 2 rd. I will say eh did win but it was closer than 69-64. Yes half way to conspiracy complete.

**Railbird** · 06-02-2002, 07:24 PM

I had Holyfield ahead 70-64.

**sword1** · 06-02-2002, 10:07 PM

Railbird,

You must of been reading the bible instead of watching the fight. By the way Maxboxing - a very reputable boxing site- scored the fight 67-66 Rahman

**Jeff** · 06-03-2002, 07:00 AM

They had Rahman winning? What fight were they watching??

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