Sportsbook that stiffs winners

[Boomer]

I find it laughable that what these idiots at Black Rhino are actually attempting to describe is arbitrage or as we know it "scalping."

You better consult your Mommy and Daddy "Black Rhino" as arbitrage has been in existence in the stock market, ticket brokering, antique selling and yes, children, even sportsbooks since the beginning of time.

There is plenty of risk and that risk is associated with the inability to "sell" the position you have bought before it "expires."

It's obvious you parents gave you the money to open up a sportsbook as many others have "because you thought you could make a fortune on the internet."

Frankly you're too stupid to be a crook, you have to to be some wealthly gentlemen's son whose Daddy lent him the money to open an "internet sportsbook" sold by the likes of the Carnival Hucksters out there who market "foolproof and hassle-free software that will rake in millions."

Unfortunately you just limited your potential market to all those who are more foolish then you meaning your market share was cut by 85-90%.

[Secretariat]

People play with books off the list to take risk of getting giant bonuses. Most have done it.

[hart attack]

jeff/brian, is there any way to inquire at the "real" books if obtaining this type of info is a possibility? i sure dont like the sound of that if it is true!


as for the scumbag thieves at the upholstered toilet known as "BLACK RHINO", i have but one question...... where did you obtain your license to steal from others?....DUESHEBAGS!!!!!

[Jeff]

hart attack......They probably wouldn't admit it. But alot of these guys have booked and dealt with each other for years. So it wouldn't be much of a big deal for them to call their buddy to inquire about a customer.

I'm sure it happens. Certain wiseguys are well known and frequently talked about amongst the books, as well as certain "trouble" players, which nobody wants anyways.

But this wouldn't happen with the average player who is just minding his own business and betting at one shop or another. Why? Because one book wouldn't want to give the customer away to another book.......

[The Prophet]

Huntin' for rhino....

As y'all probably noticed in my posts regarding PayPal problems, I try to be objective in this sort of dispute. I understand that the business and the customer may have a legitimate difference of opinion, and that the fact that they disagree doesn't mean that one is "wrong".

In this case, however, it looks like the Black Rhino don't have a pot to piss in. It's one thing to not take action from players. I don't agree with it, but it is their business and they can do it if they want. To not pay a player, and particularly based on the justification they give, is contemptable. A few thoughts:

1) 114 bets in a 30 day period ain't that many, even during baseball season without a lot of other things on the board. That's less than 4 per day. Besides, the number of wagers is no way to determine who's a pro and who isn't.

2) Even assuming that sharing information about betting patterns and whatnot does occur, unless the Black Rhino folks are operating three books under different names the fact that the player bets at more than one book is irrelevant. Even if they do own multiple stores, if they operate them independently that is irrelevent too. If they accept a bet and that bet wins they are on the hook to pay it, regardless of what the player has or hasn't bet on at other books.

3) The fact that the player bet on different sides of the same game no more makes them a professional gambler than my endless regrips at the driving range a la Sergio Garcia makes me a professional golfer. As Jeff noted, the "object" of sports and/or casino gambling is to make money. Players have an endless number of "systems" for any casino game. That's the nature of the beast, and as long as they're playing within the rules and not manipulating the outcome a casino/book should expect this. Playing both sides of the same game at different books isn't much different than buying a "pick 3" lottery ticket at one gas station, then driving to another and buying another ticket with different numbers.

A little Nevada gaming history lesson helps illustrate this point--back in the day, when blackjack legend Ken Uston was roaming the earth, the Nevada casinos were terrified of card counters. Anyone who even *looked* like they were thinking about anything at the tables was suspected of being a counter and the casinos would post "no card counting" signs and whatnot. My dad's told me that he used to see people hassled for discussing what the "basic strategy" was for a particular hand. Eventually, it occured to the casino honchos that for every Ken Uston there were thousands of "wannabe" Ken Ustons who *thought* they could count cards. They relaxed about card counting, encouraged players to learn the strategies, started selling books and basic strategy cards in the gift shop, and backed the Brinks truck up as blackjack became the biggest casino table game.

Moral of the story? In every activity, people want to emulate the professionals in technique. Whether it's the guy on the softball field jerking his elbow at bat like Joe Morgan, or the sports gambler trying to middle games and scalp moneylines, everyone tries to emulate the pros. The fact that these players were betting both sides of the same game shows nothing more than that they understand basic sports wagering concepts.

4) Playing devil's advocate here, let's assume that the Black Rhino folks are within their right to bar these people as professionals. That still doesn't negate the fact that they're obligated to pay them. They certainly didn't manipulate the outcome of the events--the games they bet on--and if the Black Rhino posted a weak line, or was slow in moving their lines, or whatever that's their problem. There's a huge difference between a weak line and/or lack of subsequent movement and an incorrect line.

5) The business about the "incorrect line" is apples and oranges. If a book posts a line on Tom Glavine today at +250 then I know that is incorrect and if I bet on it I'll most likely have my bet canceled. Those are the rules of the game. If, on the other hand, I bet a dime on Florida at +250 and they win I should expect a nice $2500 buck payout.

6) While they're correct that books don't allow players to have multiple accounts at the same book, the bit that players aren't "allowed" to bet the same game at different books is an absolute crock. Like someone else said, what about a six team parlay with five wins in the books and one game to go? I've been in that situation and I've hedged the fucker at the same book the parlay is with. If sportsbooks--land based or offshore--didn't allow players to bet the same games at other books regardless of what side they're on they'd be out of business from lack of customers.

My verdict? I didn't know that James Carville and the Clinton White House media team owned a sportsbook. It sounds like they've got a big winner they don't want to pay and they're going to try whatever sort of semantical gymnastics they need to to get out of it. I'm surprised that they haven't tried to debate the meaning of the word "is".

Seriously, even assuming that everything Black Rhino says is the chapter and verse gospel, they should still be sending this guy his jack. If they want him to take his business elsewhere, that's fine, but they need to be handing him a check on his way out. Regardless of what this player was or wasn't doing at the other books, bottom line is he placed bets at Black Rhino and won his bets. They're morally obligated to pay. This guy could have had a bet on games (either side) at 100 different books and it doesn't negate the fact that he bet at Black Rhino and those bets won.

From the sound of it, however, they need to put a disclaimer on their website that LOSERS ONLY are welcome. If they are so uncomfortable paying winners they're in the wrong line of work. I don't know anything about the book beyond what I've read here but I sure wouldn't be advising my clients to post up at a book that bends over backwards to try and justify not paying their winners.

JRM
THE PROPHET
www.netprophetsports.com

[Jeff]

It's pretty clear that the place is in way over it's head in this business.

I mean, sure, I guess anyone can put up a casino website, and maybe be successful. The thing runs itself. But with sports, sometimes decisins have to be made, and they need to be the right decisions.......

[sportshobby]

Totally undeserving to even be called a sportsbook . . .

[Blowfish]

I notice they haven't returned to even attempt to defend themselves. Is there an update on this guy's payout?

[The Prophet]

Black Rhino: Endangered species?

I was looking around the Black Rhino website today and noticed that they make a big deal about giving money to wildlife charities. Wonder if they slow pay the charities too? This book obviously has enough problems but I'm wondering if their charitable involvement is legit or if it is just a come-on.

JRM
THE PROPHET
www.netprophetsports.com