Las Vegas is Not Disneyland, Part 8 (Cont 2)

[reno]

Are the non-Don Best offshore sportsbooks any more independent and ballsy than the Don Best ones? Unfortunately, for the most part, no. I play with a total of 15 off-shore sportsbooks--6 Don Best books and 9 non-Don best books. Of the 9 non-Don Best books, only one is willing to strongly--but not too strongly, a la Austin--opinionate the opening line. And that book is Looselines. In other words, Robby (Polar) not only talks the talk, he walks the walk. Furthermore, Looseline also offers baseball totals that are a bit different from the norm. If you want to check out Looselines lines, they are available to everyone, real time, over the Internet.

If anyone knows of any other offshore sportsbook that strongly opinionates their opening line, let me know. In summary, it is truly a sad state that the offshore sportsbetting field is populated mainly by ulta-conservative, mindless, copycat BMs.

How about Vegas? Believe it or not, Vegas is ahead of the offshore books when it comes to expressing a strong opinion on opening lines--and I'm making this judgement, since I no longer live in Vegas--based on just what I see from the Don Best Screen.

For example, the Hilton and Excalibur both display strong independence in their opening lines. Particularly the Excalibur. These books do open later--around 9:00 to 9:30 AM PST, but nonetheless, they should be commended for their willingness to take a stand. Are you happy now, Grubbie?

[Polar]

Reno I'm curently on vacation we will still be putting up different lines, but not as loose as we would want them. I'll be back in july to see if we can get the ball rolling again. Thing's are getting better and would like to see more business in the future. The industry needs some more REAL BOOKS !!

[grubbie]

reno - I believe the reason the Hilton puts more of an opinion into their opening line is that they run off the wiseguy action. Their book tends to shade the opening line more toward the way they think the public will bet.(example from 6/11....'Dust opened Yankees -190, Caesars -185, Mirage -185..yet Hilton opened the Yankees -200) During the mid-90's, I knew a runner who played a move at the Hilton. After the game moved throughout Vegas, the supervisor went back to the runner and told him the bet he had made must be voided. If the runner kept his bet, he would be barred from wagering at the "Super Book."(I use those quotes very liberally)
As far as Excalibur, I know Syd ******* is no longer booking there, but maybe his influence
rubbed off on some of the people there. I remember the Super Bowl between the Chargers and 49ers. On Sunday night ,after the championship games, most of the city opened up SF -18 or -19. On Monday morning, Syd put the 49ers up at -21 1/2!! I was impressed that he put that much of an opinion into the line.(obviously, they cleaned up when the Niners won big)

[reno]

Grubbie, I had a phone account with the Edgewater in Laughlin when Syd was the sportsbook manager there. I also used to drive out there and get great numbers on games before everyone found out about the place. When Syd was at the Edgewater, he would jack the baseball favorites through the roof because he knew that was all the locals would play. I used to get 20 and 25 cent scalps all the time.

[Heath]

Albeit I don't have access to a "super-screen", my courtesy LineTrak account from Sterling tells me that day in and day out, whether its futures or anything else, Caesar's seems to have the most "opinion" and the fairest prices of all the Vegas offices. The rest just look the same to me. Uggh.

Also - curious if anyone has thoughts about Sportbet.com's overnight lines? I haven't taken the time I should to see if and how they differ from others. Still, they offer a fair price at 10 cents.

Heath

[reno]

I heard that the Hilton, which now calls itself Park Place Entertainment, purchased Caesar's Palace about a month ago. I wonder what that portends for the Caeasar's Palace sportsbook. Are they destined to lose their independence and become just be another hub in the Hilton-Flamingo network?

[Heath]

Reno -

A guy that posts on my site is good pals with the sportsbook manager at Casears.

Supposedly, their handle AND hold is the best in Vegas by a LONG shot. Their lines are definitely the best in terms of series futures.

Evidently, the advent of the Satellite Sports Book has killed it out west.

I always thought that as long as Bobby Baldwin, world class poker player turned exec was CEO of the Mirage it would never get this way.

But - the Vegas books are so used to "stealing" that if they think they should reproduce that hold in the sports books. Sad, but its like if you aren't some idiot from the "pit" with a drink in a hand and a dishelved suit on (i.e. if you don't have - tourist/sucker written all over your body) they don't even want you to bet. $500 limits on parlays is the sickest thing I've ever heard. I'll never place another bet in a LV sports book.

Heath

[grubbie]

Profit....is this the goal of every business??? If the answer to my question is yes, why are so many people surprised by the odds, limits, etc. of Vegas sportsbooks???
The Vegas sports book of 1999 is the end result of the events that have taken place the past 20 years. Some employees want to rob a place blind(i.e. Stardust in 1980's); start hiring honest people, though less educated in the nuances of oddsmaking, to run sports books. Put up numbers closer to actual odds for futures and continue to take numerous hits because there is no way these teams can "win it all"(i.e. Twins-Braves in 1990); start lowering future odds and limit liability. The limits, odds, rules, etc. in place today are there for a reason. As more bettors discover off-shore wagering, Vegas books will be forced to either follow or get left behind.
Heath - you're right in one respect...Vegas S'books want a room full of high rollers to make all the bets. Who cares if John Doe beats the S'book out of 100 grand; as long as John Doe runs straight to the craps/BJ tables to lose. BUT, book a 4 team parlay for 3 dimes and lose 30 grand to a guy with no interest playing the tables....not a pretty sight!! SO, those in charge dictate taking parlays with liability less then 10,000. Weak, yes; gutless, yes; chicken***t, yes; but you'll get a paycheck the next week.
As I have grown to learn in this business....it does not pay to be a hero.

[cashusking]

Twisted logic like grubbies' is what destroyed Las Vegas sportsbetting.

casinos

1) Assume you can't beat sports bettors for much

2) therefore refuse to invest in top quality management/oddsmakers because you "the margins are too slim" to win much anyway.

3) blame your inability to win on the customers and kick them out if they win too much

4) end up with a lousy product and no handle

Somebody up there had it right when they said Vegas only wants to steal, especially now that they are corporatized(no balls)

They'd rather get off robbing drunken foreign royalty who can slit animals' throats in their hotel rooms before blowing a king's ransom downstairs and don't care because they just go back and steal from their peasants living in poverty to pay the bills

but it's all just clean family fun now that mcrage and mccircus are bankrolling the show?

gaming is the euphamism i believe

[Unregistered]

.

[blueshirt]

good read

[Unregistered]

.