Oh well!

[Dr Ray]

Find proof, now you switching games. Do you think every team or player that has a bad game there in on a fix? Do you know how hard it iis to fix a game. Have you played a second of sports in your life you so you probably dont understand what I'm talking about. Here is one small example for your small brain if Brady is fixing a game and keep throwing picks GUESS WHAT. The Patriots would stop throwing the ball. Which would limit his oppurtunities to to have a hand on the fix. Or do you think the whole team is involved to? Bob Kraft to huh?

[Clarity]

Dr Ray, if you did play ball then you know as well as I know that ALL players and coaches are aware of spread. While it's not talked about publicy decisions are made to occasionally with regard to the spread. Fixing a game isn't as hard as you think and wouldn't need to involve more than 2 people. Coaches. Plays can be called against defenses that coaches know will flat out get squashed or will produce victory. It's like throwing a chess game. The truth is right there if you want to see it.

11-29-98 Denver and Charger playing sunday night football. I'm middling a line of 13- and 14-. Denver is up by 21 and chargers driving for gimme at the end of the game. It was the first year the 2pt conversion was implemented. Chargers score and June the fixer Jones decides to go for a 2 pt conversion. Why on earth would he go for 2 unless he is trying to cover the line. No reporters questioned this after the game and at the end of the year he was out of the NFL. They don't talk about it but the gamblers know.

Last night the over/under for completion for Vick was 13. He had 12. Do you really think the oddsmakers are that good. Predict the unpredictable no I don't think so. There is plenty of proof out there if you open your eyes. You may not be convinced but that doen't make you right. It's hard to take at first but once you accept it you'll see what I mean. Best of luck.

[Scituate01]

Please Read

Dr Ray did you even read what I wrote? I did not say Brady fixed the game. I said he was upset probably becasue the word came down this was the onw they were going to throw. And yes, with 100's of millions of $$$ invloved I do think the coach and owner can easily be involved. Follow the money. It is as old as time.

Grow up and get a clue and don't be so naiive dude, please.

GL!

Scit

[brink]

Are you guys naive enough to think that an OVER UNDER PROP on Vicks completions is fixed??????? Because it falls 12 when the line was 13??

You actually believe that "word comes down" from somewhere which game is going to be fixed in a given week and that Brady and all the other players are aware of this and just accept it???

Firstoff, they wouldn't be able to get enough down on an over/under prop like that to even approach making it worthwhile to fix. We're talking about players and coaches making multiple millions per year.

And to think all these players are keeping their mouths shut about these fixes.

I've read some crazy stuff before, mosly from high school kids who are losing their ass, but this takes the cake.

Is it possible that on some level, someone could attempt to fix an NFL game? Yes. Of course it's possible. Perhaps a referee. Perhaps an assitant coach. But more scrutiny is put on the NFL than any other sports league. It would be virtually impossible to go undetected trying to do something like that today.

The last time this was brought up in the NFL was with Len Dawson and the Kansas City Chiefs back in the 70's. Back then were talking a MUCH different world in the NFL than the one that exists today.

Is it possible that a player or players could attempt to fix or point shave in College football? Sure. It's been attempted more than once. But this is extremely rare. College hoops is another sport that leaves itself open to a player trying to shave points.

But to think that there is some broad conspiracy that exists fixing NFL games and that all this people are in on it and aware of it is just about the dumbest thing I have ever read on the subject, period.

Concentrate on picking winners and don't blame your losses on fixed games.

[STASI280]

To fix a game in the NFL nowadays would be next to impossible. Now if it was a college game, thats more realistic. My buddy played D1 basketball, and you don't think those players were always getting hounding by roomates/friends about the spread?

You can call me a crazy but I lost out on this game, and I still think it was a fix....

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/st...513935479.html

Huge money was being put on Wisky due to the fans in town, and Wisky had the spread easily covered at the time.

[SelectSportsSystems]

Find proof, now you switching games. Do you think every team or player that has a bad game there in on a fix? Do you know how hard it iis to fix a game. Have you played a second of sports in your life you so you probably dont understand what I'm talking about. Here is one small example for your small brain if Brady is fixing a game and keep throwing picks GUESS WHAT. The Patriots would stop throwing the ball. Which would limit his oppurtunities to to have a hand on the fix. Or do you think the whole team is involved to? Bob Kraft to huh?

You want Proof?
I really dont get invloved in these types of fix not fixed debates anylonger but I personally beleive games are fixed and its more than 1 game a week
Most of the time the line moves or shall I say Lack of Line Moves can point you in the right direction.

Daniel E Moldea a former FBI agent now investigative author and journalist wrote a book called
Interference "How Organized Crime Influences Professional Football"
Its over 350 pages filled with actual proof of alleged fixes and who the partys invloved were.

From his website
http://www.moldea.com/PartFive.html

[SelectSportsSystems]

sorry bad link

http://www.moldea.com/PartFive.html


and
http://www.moldea.com/Five-3.html

[Dr Ray]

Just because he went for two doesn't mean shit. The game was over and they basically tried to get an extra rep oh well. Don't you think that is a little to obvious if you were trying to hide a major secret like a fix. ALSO HOW WERE THEY GOING TO FIX A GAME WHEN THEY WERE A BIG DOG, WHAT PLAY THERE ASSES OFF.WOW I GUESS YOUR RIGHT THEY FIXED THAT SHIT WAY TO CALL IT. Can you understand why that makes no fucking sense?

Dr Ray, if you did play ball then you know as well as I know that ALL players and coaches are aware of spread. While it's not talked about publicy decisions are made to occasionally with regard to the spread. Fixing a game isn't as hard as you think and wouldn't need to involve more than 2 people. Coaches. Plays can be called against defenses that coaches know will flat out get squashed or will produce victory. It's like throwing a chess game. The truth is right there if you want to see it.

11-29-98 Denver and Charger playing sunday night football. I'm middling a line of 13- and 14-. Denver is up by 21 and chargers driving for gimme at the end of the game. It was the first year the 2pt conversion was implemented. Chargers score and June the fixer Jones decides to go for a 2 pt conversion. Why on earth would he go for 2 unless he is trying to cover the line. No reporters questioned this after the game and at the end of the year he was out of the NFL. They don't talk about it but the gamblers know.

Last night the over/under for completion for Vick was 13. He had 12. Do you really think the oddsmakers are that good. Predict the unpredictable no I don't think so. There is plenty of proof out there if you open your eyes. You may not be convinced but that doen't make you right. It's hard to take at first but once you accept it you'll see what I mean. Best of luck.

[Dr Ray]

First this shit is over twenty years old and on top of that this is no hard proof. It's a .com website they want to make money they can say whatever.
Even if it were true its over 20 years ago when NFL players didn't make the same money.

http://www.moldea.com/PartFive.html


and
http://www.moldea.com/Five-3.html

[SelectSportsSystems]

Hey Doc. Im not saying the info is current but if you read the revised book, you will see that there is more than a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that it did happen as recently as 15 years ago.

I learned long ago that you cant convince anyone of anything in the sports betting world.
There are those of us who beleive games have been and still are to this day fixed and there are those of us who think its hogwash.

I respect both camps.

But I will give you a little conspiracy theory to ponder on.

Why doesnt the NFL open there books?
I want to know how the TV revenue,merchandise sales and stadium ticket sales are enough not only to pay these players there inflated salarys but the owners coaches,GMs and everyone down the line.

I beleive its Sportsbooks who controll all sports and what they say happens.
If they need a team to cover that team covers.

I beleive thats where the real money trail will lead if anyone was ever able to track it, hopefully without being murdered.

But like I said, Some will never beleive its possible, I like to keep an open mind.

Goodluck with all your plays.

[Dr Ray]

Well shit we could pick out every qb who didn't go over his completions total and say it was fixed. Also Atl is a running team but they were down most of the game so they had to pass. Which New Orleans obviously knew and adjusted to accordingly. Its always hard to pass when you're down big cause the other team expects it.

Dr Ray, if you did play ball then you know as well as I know that ALL players and coaches are aware of spread. While it's not talked about publicy decisions are made to occasionally with regard to the spread. Fixing a game isn't as hard as you think and wouldn't need to involve more than 2 people. Coaches. Plays can be called against defenses that coaches know will flat out get squashed or will produce victory. It's like throwing a chess game. The truth is right there if you want to see it.

11-29-98 Denver and Charger playing sunday night football. I'm middling a line of 13- and 14-. Denver is up by 21 and chargers driving for gimme at the end of the game. It was the first year the 2pt conversion was implemented. Chargers score and June the fixer Jones decides to go for a 2 pt conversion. Why on earth would he go for 2 unless he is trying to cover the line. No reporters questioned this after the game and at the end of the year he was out of the NFL. They don't talk about it but the gamblers know.

Last night the over/under for completion for Vick was 13. He had 12. Do you really think the oddsmakers are that good. Predict the unpredictable no I don't think so. There is plenty of proof out there if you open your eyes. You may not be convinced but that doen't make you right. It's hard to take at first but once you accept it you'll see what I mean. Best of luck.

[Clarity]

Hey just trying to enlighten you nonbelievers. believe whatever the fuck you want to believe.

[Scituate01]

Triple S ~~~

I think you have nailed it precisley. Just way too much money involved for it NOT to be fixed. And Dr Ray you still are not reading what I am writing. The players and coaches have NO SAY in this they are well paid pawns.

Scit

[brink]

Yeah....the players and coaches are pawns ina big fixing conspiracy. All of these people can keep this big secret.

Haven't you ever heard the saying three can keep a secret if two are dead?

You guys must also think the goverment has planted chips in your brains to track and record your evey move!

[Boone Moone]

In my hypothetical opinion it would be very easy to agree with what Clarity and Select Sports Systems are posting......As a matter of fact, about the only public investigation on this matter took place some 20-25 years ago by a reporter named Jessica Savitch for the PBS broadcasiting network......It had to do with the multi-BILLION dollar business that sportsbetting had become (mainly due to Pro Football) and the odd circumstances surrounding some of the outcomes of games, etc........True to form, she ended up in a ditch a short time later (as a matter of fact, the TRUE circumstances surrounding her death were never truthfully revealed either)......Although we're looking at a dark subject here that nobody wants to really acknowledge, there are a few things to ponder........

1. Why does everyone think that the players and coaches would have to fix these games?.......Ever heard of REFEREES?........How many times during a game do you see a flag dropped and then picked up while the Ref states, "There was no fould committed on the play".....Then why throw the flag?........Better yet, how many times during the course of a game do you hear the announcers say, "It all depends on where they spot the ball"......You're damned right it does!!!!

2. Why is instant replay and the challenges that go with it - only allowable on certain plays....and on others it's not?......Hey, don't the pictures speak for themselves?

3. Even though I made money on the Super Bowl, I felt a little guilty at some of those calls that went against the Seahawks (it's all about "integrity" I guess).

4.Baseball has had the same rules for the past 100 years (true, the way the game is played has changed quite a bit, but the rules have pretty much stayed the same), yet the NFL seems to change the rules every year!!!!......Almost to the point where it's hard to keep up with!!!!......What was legal last year-is ILLegal this year and vice-versa.....All of this just gives the Refs the right to negate just about any play they want....or don't want.........You can't touch the QB, your momentum can't continue after the play on a hit or you'll be penalized, etc.......Damn, just let 'em play the game the way they use to......Smash-mouth football...as in the days of Butkus, Nitchke, and Deacon Jones!!!

5. Start keeping track of line-moves (the way I do).....Heck, to me, that's the easiest way to be successful at what we do......Stats are useless to me......The stats aren't doing the betting.....The PUBLIC is....!!!!!!

Oh well, keep the faith and Good Luck.