Their not clones.....

[Polar]

Sting,

Once again you are talking about something you don't know about. They (loose lines) did not have any of these lines at the number everybody else had! If you we watching the lines you would have known this. This is the objective. There are no secrets, no unknown powers. Just trying to give players something to bet on, not just put up what everyone else has !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one can say they don't try to do this for their players.

But once again, I point out something that as a long time player is becoming so plain. This is not about MIDDLERS, SHARP PLAYERS, OR SCALPERS. This is about the simple fact that as a bookie you don't have to use the same numbers as everyone else. In fact you will write alot more action by not using CLONE LINES. You have a lot better chance of winning.

I will always have this advantage! sorry! I have no problem with this at all. If these CLONE JOINTS think this is the way to run an office, that's grrreeaaatttt.........

But I think it's sad and funny to see....

Good day all...............

And I can make better numbers than this clown you keep talking about. And he is a clown...............

[Cons]

Hey, I don't bet baseball because it's like flipping coins to me, but with all this talk about being a "clone" joint and copying lines, I agree with Ray.

If you rant about the others "cloning" lines... then why not make your own lines early, instead of waiting for the others to make theirs? Seriously Polar, make up your own original lines (early), and show us you're not a "clone" yourself...

[Polar]

Guys,

I would love to, but it would not be to my advantage. Not because I can't make lines. But I never want to get in a situation where people would follow my lines if they were very good lines. Plus there's really no glory in it. Nobody cares who's first.

[ray]

Guys, they care who will be the first.

And thats the key.

If I am a BM, and if I am very, very sharp or even I can know the result of a game before it was played, say MNF tonite,

GB 17 SF 10, GB win by 7.

Be honestly with you, I will not want to put up a line before Roxy hang out his line.

I don't want to be the first to do that.

Its not always about how sharp of a BM, its about your business. Its about risk.

OK, even I know the general public and the wiseguys and the whole world will like GB, do you think if I hang out a line of GB -7.5 (to be the 1st one) will gurantee my book have a big day?

Well, if Roxy will have the same lines as I did, or if Roxy will have the line at -8 or above, oh yes.

But what if Roxy hang out his line couple hours later GB -6.5?

Most if not all the big actions I will get will be on SF +7.5.

Nobody would like to see the situation of their lines vs Roxy's lines, or in other words,

you vs the world.

Its way too risky.

This is the era of info, this is the era of Don Best and Roxy.

Cut all the bulls about you want to give players a different number to play.

If you move your number because you need to balance your actions, thats fine.

Other than that, if you always want to have a different number than the others, you are just gambling with your customers.

Like you said,

if you think this is the way to run an office, that's grrreeaaatttt.........

[Polar]

Also I think it would be fun. The real problem is the time it would take. I would have to make a comitment to be the best at this. I don't think I have the drive to be the best at giving opening lines.

The reason most sharp people bet and don't book is simple. It is 5 times easier!!!!!! You don't need to spend 12 hours a day betting!!!!!! You can take a day off when you want!!!!!!!!! And nobody can take advantage of you if your making the bets.........

Good luck to all................

[Polar]

Roxy?

If Roxys line was so good the last 15 years why does the whole industry get picked apart by the wiseguys? How come Las Vegas has become the City of chasing away all the players who are sharper than the linemaker? Do you believe for a minute that if (his lines?) were good there would ever have been a problem with the players ripping apart the Vegas books? He did not advise them too well did he? He was a bad choice as it turns out. This whole business has turned chicken. Stop denying it. The after effects has changed everything.

Ray since you have this (if your different than the norm thinking you wrong) have you ever worked with people who take advantage of the weak numbers being used? Or are you just talking about some kind of losers syndrome from some Vegas bum that bets $5 dollar parlays all his life and has become an expert on this subject.

[Polar]

Also Ray,

"You are just gambling with your customers" What in the heck is that supposed to mean? Do you realize what you just said?

"You are just gambling with your customers" Again what do you mean by that? Is there anyway to take bets and not gamble with them? Is there some higher power somewhere that assures us we are not gambling with our customers.

"You are just gambling with your customers" Wow..............

[cashusking]

"The reason most sharp people bet and don't book is simple. It is 5 times easier! You don't need to spend 12 hours a day betting! You can take a day off when you want! And nobody can take advantage of you if your making the bets........."---Polar quote

question for Polar: Why are you a bookie then? I assume you consider yourself sharp. If that is a correct assumption then I already know the answer. Because booking is MUCH more profitable than betting OR you tried and couldn't hack it as a gambler!

It seems like you want it both ways though. You don't want to put up the numbers first because you are scared to death of the sharp players but you do want to book and not bet. So you ARE basically just another clone.

For example you don't have lines on games when CRIS doesn't such as yesterday on the Timberwolves game. So put up or shut up.

As far as your lame excuse about putting "too good of line" don't make me laugh. You'll get straightened out real quick don't worry about that. No one will fear your line.

(despite your claim above that you aren't a book which i guess was an inside joke? - "What the heck is your problem? When did I ever promote my book? I don't even have a book! What are you talking about?"- Polar quote - let's just come out and say it - you are the Looselines guy)

[ray]

Polar,

I understand you are an experienced and well respected person in this business. I would not dare to compare with you. And thats one of the reasons that I just keep ignoring your personal attacks.

As for your questions,

it really doesn't matter if I'm a bum who bet $5 parlay everyday or you are a 5 dimes per game high roller, it matters when you have some resons and they make sense.

It doesn't matter if Roxy is a complete joke for this business or not, at least not in this topic we are talking about. It really doesn't matter whether those BMs of Roxy can pick their nose or not. Only matter is most if not the books are currently using their lines.

Like it or not, thats what really counts.

Until you or somebody could change it, thats the reality.

Thats what I am referring to, do you really want to be in the case of you vs the world?

As far as "you are gambling with your customers" goes, why do you want to have a different number than the others on a game if it is not about balance your actions?

Because you want to prove you are a better BM than Roxy, because you want to beat your customers.

Cut the bulls about becausing you want to give players something to play.

The result, more likely you will be ended up with one sided actions than most of the other books.

If you are currently doing this (in fact, you didn't, just talk), I respect your courage,

and more importantly,

good luck.

[Cons]

Isn't the fact that most books have same/similar lines mainly due to the fact that people use multiple outs, and that the Don Best screen makes line-shopping so easy?

If every book has the Lakers -4, and the Cayman International Sportsbook has them at -5, then assuming people use multiple outs the Cayman book would see almost NO action on the Lakers. And those that fancied the other team would hit the Cayman book with the other side at +5, since they had the best odds.

So if a book decided to have a different line, it wouldn't stay that way for long because it would be bashed into submission in no time. You might say that books should still move their lines on action, and maybe they do. But as soon as their line is off from the rest, it might just be that it gets hit right back to where it belongs.

[Polar]

cashusking,

I am not a bookie! Final. I advise this book on what numbers to use, but my main source of income lately has been gambling. Luck is everything.....

And I ain't scared of anybody in this business.

Ray,

Your claiming I attacked you personaly. You keep saying that I am with looselines is not attacking me? I am ME and ME alone!!!!! Everything I write about is my experience and nobody elses. NOBODYS not looselines not anybodys!! I was also with the old Zum Zum in Margarita, I work with Margarita Int., I worked with CRIS. I could work with just about anyone in this business if I wanted too. Why don't you say this also everytime I post something. What's your point.

The point is yes they do use (Roxys line) but the results are (the lines stink) Like I said "If they had been making good solid lines this business would not be crying about the Wiseguy syndrome" do the math...

Bad lines.... More sharp players....
Sharp lines.... fewer sharp players.....

You guys think I want to change this?

[ray]

OK, Polar.

YOU WIN!!!

I'm such a dump ass for wasting my time on this again and again.

Thtas it for me.

For the record, just several days ago, in a thread by Mr. Crazyhair,

*************
ray
Member posted 11-22-1999 12:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polar,

Not trying to bash you again, but why Looselines still afraid to go online is really beyond me, thats not a very good marketing strategy at all.

IP: 171.209.22.27

Polar
Member posted 11-22-1999 01:59 PM
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Ray,
We are on-line, but are only taking small wagers (200). We are looking into other options (systems) and will probably increase the limits soon.

************

Have a nice day!

[Polar]

Cons,

Just something to think about. If you read Reno's writing about middling he states that a middler who bets the games before they move will end up with the best middles. This game you talk about L.A. is -4. We use -5. Ok lets say the wiseguys take +5 for whatever you want on the game. Later in the day this game goes to -5 every the clones go. The rest of the day the players lay -5 or if your lucky they will lay -5.5.

If this game lands 5 what happens to our book and what happens to the book that opened -4. This is a huge advantage. I simply don't wait for after the move to get money on the other side. The other books who didn't think about this are going to -5.5 or -6 to get money against L.A. Getting middled everytime these games land.

No! balancing the books can be dangerous if you just react to all the moves after they happen. You can't open yourself up game after game................

In the 5 years I have done this the offices I have worked for have actually middled the wiseguys by doing this. (and getting +110 the whole time)

You can be sharp and use different lines if your good...........

[Polar]

Ray,

Did you ever see "Revenge of the nerds"? Were you in it? You act like one of these slime ridden goverment jerks who have nothing to do except bother succesful people. Sorry buddy, but your sad....

[Cons]

Come on Polar, let's not ignite a war or anything...

I don't mind a heated debate. I actually don't mind a really heated debate every so often (I think it brings out the best from people at times), but cheap shots like these are only just that.