Denied of winnings. Please help!

[Hartley]

But again, Sportfanatik stated that "all bets are final" and Patrick stated on this site that they are never beaten to a number and if they are then the bookmakers get fired.

So if it's a wrong line then they have no case UK200 should be paid. End of story.

[Bette Midler]

Phil...

In general, I agree with what you are saying about betting into an off line, although the example you gave (a flipped line making the Pacers a dog at +5.5) is much different than the circumstances surrounding this incident.

Here you have a case where indeed the line was off, but it is not as if the player where trying to sneak one by and hope no one would notice. He contacted the book both BEFORE and AFTER the wager was placed to confirm the odds and they were confirmed. It would seem as if the player was asking the sportsbook to do a double check, offering the book an opportunity to back out of the deal if they were not happy with the odds they were dealing. The sportsbook affirmed the odds on more than one occassion and confirmed the bet after it was placed. To me, this should be enough to let the player rest knowing that he has a bet.

I am not at all embarrassed to admint that I know nothing about Dutch League soccer, but I would think Patrick's linesmaker should.

[Junior44]

I have a question that I don't believe has been addressed.....According to Sportsfanatic, the match was POSTED to play on 5/13, however the match was ACTUALLY played on 5/14. My question is this: When Sportsfanatic's system took the game off the board at the "supposed" kick-off on 5/13, was the match subsequently put back up on the board with a play date of 5/14? Surely there must have been some bettors who had no intention of wagering on this game UNTIL the actual game day. If they went to the site on 5/14 (prior to the actual start AND with no knowledge of the 5/13 line), was there a posted line on this game? And, if there wasn't, wouldn't this trigger the bettor to wonder why this game wasn't being offered? If 500+ bettors wagered on this game, did ALL of them make the wager prior to 5/13? I would think that there would be at least 1 individual who would have logged onto his/her pc on the morning of 5/14 with the intent of making a wager on this match, and upon seeing no line, would have called Sportsfanatic to ask why?

I'll admit that I know zilch about Dutch Soccer, but I can relate to the following scenario: If I wake up Monday morning with the intention of making a wager on the MNF game and discover that there is no line, I would be on the phone in minutes in order to find out why. If they had mistakenly posted the MNF game with a play date of Sunday, would they just NOT offer the game on Monday? Of course not.......They would repost the game with the correct date. Did Sportsfanatic do this -OR- did they just sh!tcan the match altogether?

On another note, regardless of the date issue, you covered your tracks, called prior to and after your wager for confirmation and received it......You were flat-out cheated. No question about it.....Also, I have read many upon many lame-ass excuses from sportsbooks in this forum throughout the years, but the one offered up by Patrick takes the cake. "We have 200 employees and we cannot be responsible for what they say."......Well, then who IS responsible? The bettor? What a crock of rat guano. Those employees represent YOU and you are responsible for their actions.......Patrick is fully aware that this thread exists but he has chosen not to be a participant. It's because he has been called out and has no case..........

And, if anybody can clarify this date issue that I outlined above, it would be much appreciated.......

[AussieVamp2]

------- ok, tell me whose line is 'off'
-------------------------------------------

May 23, 2000 Inter vs. Parma

Cidx
avg 34 30 35 1.03 0.97 1.01 1.00 -1 +7-10
oddset 215 285 235 37 28 34 0.74 0.86 0.83 0.81 +3
norway 220 260 245 36 31 33 0.76 0.79 0.87 0.80 +4
sweden 225 260 240 36 31 33 0.77 0.79 0.85 0.80 +2
veikkaus 230 260 235 35 31 34 0.79 0.79 0.83 0.80 +1
playoff 235 290 245 36 29 35 0.81 0.88 0.87 0.85 +1
ssp 235 275 285 37 32 31 0.81 0.83 1.01 0.88 +7
alpen 235 290 235 36 29 36 0.81 0.88 0.83 0.84 +0
linz 240 280 240 35 30 35 0.83 0.85 0.85 0.84 +0
iwett 240 290 240 35 29 35 0.83 0.88 0.85 0.85 +0
itops 240 285 240 35 30 35 0.83 0.86 0.85 0.84 +0
swett 240 300 240 36 29 36 0.83 0.91 0.85 0.86 +0
worldbet 240 265 265 36 32 32 0.83 0.80 0.94 0.85 +3
schwechat 245 280 245 35 30 35 0.84 0.85 0.87 0.85 +0
vierklee 250 260 250 34 32 34 0.86 0.79 0.88 0.84 +0
paf 250 280 240 34 30 35 0.86 0.85 0.85 0.85 -1
fonbet 255 275 255 34 32 34 0.88 0.83 0.90 0.87 +0
atlantic 255 290 255 35 31 35 0.88 0.88 0.90 0.89 +0
vchand 260 285 260 34 31 34 0.89 0.86 0.92 0.89 +0
sportingbet 262 320 238 34 28 38 0.90 0.97 0.84 0.90 -4
bet2day 270 295 235 33 30 37 0.93 0.89 0.83 0.88 -5
tipsport 275 275 275 33 33 33 0.95 0.83 0.97 0.92 +0
cbet 275 300 235 32 30 38 0.95 0.91 0.83 0.89 -6
hill 280 300 230 32 30 39 0.96 0.91 0.81 0.89 -7
expekt 280 305 230 32 29 39 0.96 0.92 0.81 0.89 -7
globet 285 300 235 32 30 38 0.98 0.91 0.83 0.90 -7
unibet 300 295 225 30 30 40 1.03 0.89 0.79 0.90 -10

[UK2000]

Sportfanatik is licensed in Margarita Island and also listed Licensed in Internet Gaming Commission http://www.internetcommission.com.

I had sent an inquiry form to them and is waiting for their reply.
This may be my last hope??

[UK2000]

I had emailed to Shrink@The************.com last week but did not received a reply.

The amount that I had lost might seem to be a small amount to some of you, but to me , it means a lot.
I am supporting my wife to pull thru' the last year of her university study. I know I shouldn't gamble, but believe me, I am left with no choice!

[UK2000]

Here are the important emails that I had received prior to the match:
The kick-off is 14/5/2000 @ 08:00 (ET).


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 12 May 2000 14:02
To: Lim, C.Y.
Subject: Re:


Yes..its correct.... You do not have to ask each time you bet on the game

ALL the bets are Final

Thank You www.sportfanatik.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Lim, C.Y.
To: '[email protected]'
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 8:44 AM

Hi,

I would like to confirm with u whether the odds for the below match is
correct or wrongly posted (or whatever) :

Date # Team Money Total

05/13/00 57 Cambuur 3.60 OFF
08:00 ET Tie 3.10 OFF
Waalwijk 1.75

Please reply asap.

Regards,

Lim

----Original Message-----
From: Desmond Lim Chang Yaw [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 13 May 2000 20:04
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: PLEASE
RESPOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!


Please direct this email to Carlos.

Hi,

Further to our telephone conversation, I and my friends feel that we need a
confirmation from you (via email) stating that our bets will be accepted at
the odds previously offered to us even if the Cambuur-RKC Waalwijk match
does not kick off at the date and time as scheduled on your website.

'All sporting events must be played on date and site scheduled unless
otherwise specified. Sporting events postponed by more than 12 hours and or
rescheduled, will constitute "No Action," and all money will be credited
accordingly.'

The above will not be applicable in this case.

My username : desmond
My 1 friend's username : US2000
My 2 friend's username : jasonV


So what is the actual kick-off time and date for the above match?

Please reply ASAP.

Regards,

Lim


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 13 May 2000 12:26
To: Lim, C.Y.
Subject: Re:


yes... it will be change

Thank You www.sportfanatik.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Lim, C.Y.
To: '[email protected]'
Date: Friday, May 12, 2000 6:31 PM

Hi,

Can I check with u whether the below match should kick off on the
14/05/2000 08:00 ET or (14/05/2000 13:30 GMT)?

Date # Team Money Total

05/13/00 57 Cambuur 3.60 OFF
08:00 ET Tie 3.10 OFF
Waalwijk 1.75

Please reply asap.

Regards,

Lim


---Original Message-----
>From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: 13 May 2000 17:18
>To: Lim, C.Y.
>Subject: Re: PLEASE
>RESPOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>!
>
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>Our management will make a decision on this bets by tomorrow...
>
>Thank You
>www.sportfanatik.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lim, C.Y.
>To: '[email protected]'
>Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 12:00 PM
>Subject: RE: PLEASE
>RESPOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Desmond Lim Chang Yaw [mailto:[email protected]]
>>Sent: 14 May 2000 00:59
>>To: [email protected]
>>Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
>>Subject: PLEASE
>>RESPOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>!
>>
>>
>>Can u ask Carlos/Keith to email me back!!!!!!!!!
>>My friends and I had placed some bets on the cambuur-RKC Waalwijk match
>>before it was removed from your system. I called up yesterday and Carlos
>>assured me that those bets that we had placed will stand even if the match
>>time and date is changed.
>>
>>So I need a confirmation via email from an authorized person.
>>
>>My username: desmond
>>My first friend username : US2000
>>My second friend username : jasonV
>>Please direct this email to Carlos.
>>
>>Further to our telephone conversation, I and my friends feel that we need
>a
>>
>>confirmation from you (via email) stating that our bets will be accepted
at
>>the odds previously offered to us even if the Cambuur-RKC Waalwijk match
>>does not kick off at the date and time as scheduled on your website.
>>
>>'All sporting events must be played on date and site scheduled unless
>>otherwise specified. Sporting events postponed by more than 12 hours and
or
>>rescheduled, will constitute "No Action," and all money will be credited
>>accordingly.'
>>
>>The above will not be applicable in this case.
>>
>>My username : desmond
>>My 1 friend's username : US2000
>>My 2 friend's username : jasonV
>>
>>
>>So what is the actual kick-off time and date for the above match?
>>
>>Please reply ASAP.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Lim
>>__________________________________________________ _____________________

---Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 13 May 2000 17:26
To: Lim, C.Y.
Subject: Re: PLEASE
RESPOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!


Lim,

We have over 150,000 customer and currently busiest day of the week... You
have sent us 10 emails and we responded twice...
As we explained you before...we will make the decision by sunday...

Thank You www.sportfanatik.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Lim, C.Y.
To: '[email protected]'
Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject: RE: PLEASE
RESPOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


>Hi,
>
>This is not the way to do business.
>Carlos had given me the assurance that my bets will definitely be accepted
>when I talked to him yesterday. Ask him to email me and clarify! Keith told
>me over the phone that he will email to me, but still had not received
>anything from him yet.
>
>Why does it take u so long to respond?
>
>
-----Original Message-----
From: Desmond Lim Chang Yaw [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 14 May 2000 20:32
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject:


Hi,

I would like to have a confirmation of both my bets and my friends' bets on
the cambuur-RKC match.
If there is no reply, the bet will stand.

Regards,

Lim

From: [email protected] (Okan at SportFanatik) Save Address - Block Sender
To: "Desmond Lim Chang Yaw" Save Address
Subject: Re:
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 07:40:48 -0400
Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close


all the bets are final...

Thank You www.sportfanatik.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Desmond Lim Chang Yaw
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, May 14, 2000 6:34 AM


>Hi,
>
>I would like to have a confirmation that both my bets and my friends' bets
>on the cambuur-waalwijk match had been accepted.
>
>Regards,
>
>Lim

I do not know what the other bettors had done to ensure that their bets will stand. But for my case, I was convinced that all my bets of the match was ON!

[Shawn]

The more I think about it, the more I'm surprised they hung out a number on this match at all, but since they did, how can they not honour it no questions asked?

It's their linemaker's problem. I mean, I can start hanging out lines in the Spanish Third Division (or anything else I suppose) but if I make Real Madrid "B" 3.75 when they should be around evens, I can't stiff the players sharp enough to pounce on it.

These guys have to pay--and the American sports example of Pacers -5' posted as +5' doesn't wash here. Soccer is a much higher-vig market when you look at any individual shop, but collectively there can be a lot of variance and anybody who uses Crastinum and enough outs can bet most games in most leagues at very little vig. I've seen Real Madrid today in the biggest game of the year anywhere from even to +180 and none of these lines are "wrong". Just yesterday Coral had Brazil -200 when other major places had them -335 or more.

If you only want to book Premiership and Serie A, fine. Do that. But if you're going to offer these other leagues, honour the bets that were made and repeatedly accepted until they became winners.

Ray: thanks for the kind words, sir.

[UK2000]

Here is what I received from them after the match :


>From: [email protected] (Okan at SportFanatik)
>To: "Desmond Lim Chang Yaw"
>Subject: Re:
>Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:01:22 -0400
>
>Due to wrong date post of this game...our system called this game "NO
>ACTION"
>
>
>Thank You
>www.sportfanatik.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Desmond Lim Chang Yaw
>To: [email protected]
>Date: Monday, May 15, 2000 3:09 PM
>Subject: Re:
>
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >Why are our winnings for the cambuur-RKC Waalwijk match deducted from our
> >account?
> >
> >Please reply ASAP.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Lim
> >

From: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: RE:
> >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:39:28 -0500
> >
> >Dear member,
> >The withdrawal was made from your account due to an error in grading the
> >game on ID #6023571.
> >
> >regards,
> >
> >member services
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: koh jeslyn [SMTP:[email protected]]
> > > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 2:44 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject:
> > >
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > > My winnings of $520 was deducted from my account for no apparent
> reason.
> > > My account ID is 658386728 and my name is Koh Poh Khee.
> > >
> > > Please clarify what had happened.
> > >
> > > A prompt reply will be very much appreciated.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Jeslyn Koh

>From: [email protected] (Okan at SportFanatik)
>To: "Desmond Lim Chang Yaw"
>Subject: Re:
>Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:48:13 -0400
>
>Yes....all the games are final unless..there is a date or time Error..
>We have already explained you before...
>We are very sorry ...however we have over 500 customer in this case and we
>can not change the rules...
>
>Thank You
>www.sportfanatik.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Desmond Lim Chang Yaw
>To: [email protected]
>Cc: [email protected]
>Date: Friday, May 19, 2000 3:11 PM
>
>
> >
> >This is what u sent me before the kick-off!
> >
> >>From: [email protected] (Okan at SportFanatik)
> >>To: "Desmond Lim Chang Yaw"
> >>Subject: Re:
> >>Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 07:40:48 -0400
> >>
> >>all the bets are final...
> >>
> >>Thank You
> >>www.sportfanatik.com
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Desmond Lim Chang Yaw
> >>To: [email protected]
> >>Date: Sunday, May 14, 2000 6:34 AM
> >>
> >>
> >> >Hi,
> >> >
> >> >I would like to have a confirmation that both my bets and my friends'
> >>bets
> >> >on the cambuur-waalwijk match had been accepted.
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >
> >> >Lim
> >> >
> >> >>From: [email protected] (Okan at SportFanatik)
> >> >>To: "Desmond Lim Chang Yaw"
> >> >>Subject: Re: PLEASE RESPOND
> >> >>Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:46:03 -0400
> >> >>
> >> >>Lim,
> >> >>
> >> >>Our office opens 10:00 AM EST..
> >> >>you can call him 1-888-32 62 845
> >> >>
> >> >>Thank You
> >> >>www.sportfanatik.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>-----Original Message-----
> >> >>From: Desmond Lim Chang Yaw
> >> >>To: [email protected]
> >> >>Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 7:54 AM
> >> >>Subject: Re: PLEASE RESPOND
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >Hi,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Who is Carlos that I had spoken to yesterday?
> >> >> >Can U ask him to email me ASAP!!!!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Regards,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Lim
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
From: [email protected] (Okan at SportFanatik)
>To: "koh jeslyn"
>Subject: Re:
>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 07:09:03 -0400
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>In Dutch League..... the game between Waalwijk and Cambuur was No Action
>game due to date Error in that particular game...
>
> Result: No Action
>Waalwijk No Action
>Cambuur 05/13/00 (08:00 ET)
>Cambuur 3.60
>
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 18 May 2000 21:25
To: [email protected]
Subject: wager status


Sir
This is completely between you and Okan. He assures me he has been in
contact with you. As in all cases involving wager status the managing
grader handles all issues at this point.

Please direct all inquiries and questions to aforementioned individual.

[email protected]


Jeff R
Internet Customer Service and Support


Reply from [email protected]


There were numerous other circumstance surrounding this game, too many to
go into at this point in time. The match was not played on the date that
the bet was placed for and thus all bets are no actioned. I am sorry if
you were misinformed, we have over 200 employees and not all of them are
110% informed at all times. We try to keep everyone as up to date as
possible but we run over 600 wagers a week and that is not always possible.

As I stated our decision is final and binding.

Patrick

At 12:39 AM 5/23/00 +0100, you wrote:
>hi,
>
>But why was the customers informed only after the match result is out!
>Since you said that the match was incorrectly graded, why was that I had 3
>replies from SPortfanatik stating that the odds were correct?
>What do u mean by correcting the wager by grading the wager as No Action
>only when u know the result!
>
>I wonder who had posted this?
>
>playersonly
>Member
>posted 03-21-1999 04:17 PM
>
>No one ever beats us to the number. You beat us to the number and our
>bookmakers
>get fired, not the customers.
>
>IP: 206.49.192.228<<
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Patrick [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: 23 May 2000 00:35
>To: Lim, C.Y.
>Subject: Re:
>
>
>Lim,
> The event was incorrectly graded and we corrected this by grading
>the wager as no action. The event did not occur on the date that was
>posted.
>
>Our decision is final and no matter who you email or what steps you take,
>our decision is final and bidding and will not be changed.
>
>Sincerely
>Patrick
>
>
>
>At 12:13 AM 5/23/00 +0100, you wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I would like to enquire whether are u able to resolve the dispute between
>me
> >and Sportfanatik?
> >I had my winnings withdrawn by Sportfanatik after it was credited.
> >And 'No Action' was posted due to wrong posting of the date of the match.
> >But I had called up Sportfanatik 2 days before the match and was assured by
> >Carlos that my bets will stand. 1 day before the match, an email was sent
>to
> >me saying that their management will make a decision on this match.On the
> >matchday, I received an email from [email protected] just before the
> >kick-off stating that the bets was final.
> >After the winnings had been credited, their management decided to post this
> >match as No Action stating that the date was wrongly posted! It was unfair
> >to me as had the result had gone against my way, I doubt their management
> >will come to such a decision.
> >
> >
> >Please HELP.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Lim
>
>
>----------
>Players Sportsbook & Casino
>http://www.PlayersOnly.com
>800-388-0456 Fax 800-713-3916
>New Accounts Earn 10%, Referrals Earn 10%

>Thank You

[Anton]

AYCE,

I dont deny that I find good value in 3,60 for Cambuur. Otherwise I wouldn’t bet on it. However I don't consider the odds to be even close to being called ”wrongly priced”. How could you when they win 13 % of their matches at home.

Sure there are other sportbooks that has other opinions regarding the odds in this match, but if you start comparing the odds for european soccer, you will find arbitrage of 1-10% frequently. It’s just a matter of different opinions.

I would prefer if we could stop talking about the odds. SPF had accepted the price and that is the important issue here.

[Phil]

UK2000 - the more I think about it, I'm really starting to come around to your side. Especially reading the emails they sent you. They EXPLICITLY said, ALL BETS ARE FINAL AND ACCEPTED.

I hope you get your money because you deserve it. And good job in knowing enough to be able to discern the value in this soccer line. I'm sure it takes a hell of alot of time to run through soccer odds from all these different places.

[UK2000]

Phil,

I am now hanging on a thread. I had tried all ways and means to get my money back but Sportfanatik had decided not to honour my bets.
And I don't actually agree with some of you arguing about the odds. Every bookmakers had their own odds for any game. And in fact Intertops had 1.7 for Cambuur to win, 3.25 for a draw and 4.5 for RKC waalwijk to win.
And I actually received an email from Intertops saying that the odds were INCORRECT AFTER I placed my bets, but they said they will honour my bets and they deserved to win my wager.
If all bookmakers had approximately the same odds, i think Crastinum and other odds-comparing sites will not exist at all!

[AYCE]

Well, if you think that I'm trying to cover Patrick's ass, you are insane.

As I said, whether he will pay you or not is none of my business, but I don't believe there is any ground for anyone to argue that he should not pay you.

After he got "warned" couple times and still don't know somebody is betting on his bad lines, he is definitely getting what he deserved.

What I'm trying to find out is what should the line be in that game (which is obviously way off at 3.60, and like Shawn said, its just amazing that they even hang out lines for that game).

And you don't want to talk about it? OK...but if you still believe it is OK, why would you called couple times before you played the game to "make sure" the odds is OK?

OK!?

If what you have mentioned is correct, your "winning parlays" is the main reason for this whole mess.

Believe or not, Starnet books hang out screwed lines week in and week out. Not only in soccer, but I believe even Oz mentioned at here that he won tuck load of greens on their cricket lines.

And thats truck load of greens...

So, if thats just $500 or couple dimes, I guess they will just swallow it like they did regularly. But when it is something like you have mentioned, "$50000 loss of winning parlays", well, it may give something for Patrick to think about...

But, of course, it still didn't give him the rights to screw you after all.

And what makes me called him as a complete idiot is, he just can find another stupid excuse (game not played in the stated time) for not paying you, but not willing to point out that you have taken advantage of his bad lines, which resulting from the f###ed up of his lazy BM's.

Got it?

So why?

Hartley got a good point to kick his ass earlier with his quote. And this is a good lesson for those full of egos "know it all" SOB BMs out there, next time you want to make a bold statement, sooner or later you will get your ass kicked really hard.

Well, On a side note, if you think you can use the same reason to argue with your book for a bet that you lost - game didn't play on the scheduled time,

DREAM ON!

I have tried several times in the same situation (postphone of soccer that played one day later is very common around the winter break in Europe, plus also tennis) before but I have never won any cases.

So this never will be a fair game.

But at least some books are willing to change to avoid such kind of problems. eg. Itops tennis lines starting this year, it clearly stated no matter when the match will be played, all bets are having actions.

You thought someone didn't fight for that?

At last, one final thought, I guess I don't need to check Patrick's soccer lines for quite a while.

PS. Shawn, shame on you, Spanish D3! Don't you know they already having lines for Peruian, Edcudorian, Bolivian (whatever the names should be, hey, how well they know about those games is just the same as how well I spelled those names) league games up already for almost a year?

[AussieVamp2]

would imagine even these south american leagues would be a bit more sensible than Spanish third division - the spanish 2nd division already ordinary enough!

Norwegian 2nd division better than that

Haven't got much on the South American front yet, but will get there, but even more crowd violence/political disruptions etc. there

[Junior44]

Nobody has answered my question, which i believe is significant: Was this match re-posted on 5/14 or not?