Book cancels 20k losing bet CONTINUED

[krackman]

Great post Dot........ I think the more we read into this the more it does stink MLB you are losing FANS by the hour

[SLAM DUNK]

I have to disagree. Taking MLBFAN at his word, and I see no reason not to, what stinks about his story. While I think naming the book is appropriate, it is not mandatory. He feels that he doesn't want to hurt their reputation over a disagreement of whether the bet should be counted or voided. I can respect that. All books have a protective disclaimer, protecting them from OBVIOUS LINE ERRORS, so he brought the issue in this forum to be discussed and to help him and the book reach a proper settlement. WHY IS HE NOW THE ONE BEING ATTACKED. Dot Mix mentions financial woes. This situation, does not indicate financial woes from the company in hand. It might, but might not. It was a business decision. What better forum than right here. As long as every book has this little disclaimer that they can refuse a bet that is an obvious line error, EVERY bettor faces this type of potential problem in the future. So as long as there is no evidence whatsoever that MLBFAN is being anything less than truthful, the proper thing to do is focus on the true issue at hand. Should the bet stand or not.

Devil, I respect your opinion and intuition and maybe there is something fishy about the story we have been given, but there is no reason to assume it. Dot, I understand that you feel bettors should be protected, but since there are 2 sides fo the story, and only one is being presented, maybe it is not such a bad idea for the book to remain unnamed.

If this forum is to be of benefit to all, everyone, even junior posters, should be able to state a claim without be BLASTED. Between Capper, and MLB FAN any casual observer, would not have the balls to come on an state their claim, because they know they may be next. This is a discussion forum and should be open to all.

This is a highly respected forum, with a wide array of knowledgable insiders who can help
anyone, even novice gamblers who may feel wronged by the industry get a proper opinion. But if they happen to be wrong, unknowingly, do they deserve to be attacked. I think NOT. As long as they are attacked, nobody new is going to come in and state their claims and all will remain hush. Is that the answer? Think about it.

[thedevil]

Slam,

Agree with what your saying.. If we shouldn't asssume something is wrong why should we assume something is right..I Don't think we attacked MLBFAN. Some of us just feel he's not being 100% truthful. Yes this a respected forum and yes it is very helpful to players but should we as part of the forum help others that won't tell us the whole story.. When this first came out the vast majority was all for mlbfan.. Slowly as we asked for facts, which weren't forthcoming public opinion started to change. If the book is so well respected, they will tell their side of the story. Hell we don't even know what the plays were. It's very difficult to make a rational decision with one mans word and no facts other than "he said".

Sorry, until I know more he's wrong.

DEVIL

[This message has been edited by thedevil (edited 07-04-2000).]

[Dot Mix]

SLAM DUNK

Would you at some point down the road like to find out you posted up money with a book that that was in financial trouble? Would you like to find out later it was the very same book that MLBfan is having his problems with?

This forum is to offer opinion after sufficient facts are presented, but it is also a very important function of this forum to offer "heads ups" to its readers when there are imperculiarities and problems in getting paid. If MLBFAN is correct in his story that he's brought to BETTORSWORLD that he's being treated unfairly by the book in not getting his $20 GRAND, then there is a PROBLEM book out there that is apt to stiff other people too.

I don't want to be one of them.

Dot

[AYCE]

Slam Dunk,

first of all, let me make this dry and clear.

You got to admit that what you are seeing in here will be much different from what you will see at the P site.

At least there are several guys at here who don't like ass kissing and won't buy into the hype.

If somebody raise a legit question or complain at here and with facts behind him, I don't care whether the book in question will be an advertiser at here or not, he (the book) will have a hard time to go through in this forum.

Even sometimes the thread will be closed.

Don't think so, ask Bowman about it...

The guys that currently running this site are much smarter than the others in the way of handling those kind of "things", they seldom give their opinions and judgements and just let the facts speak for themselves IS THE BEST WAY TO HANDLE IT.

Remember how St!ng had tried to cover Patrick's ass in that "soccer incident"?

Did you see anyone here "attacked" UK2000 when he had bought the facts on the table? Did the guys at here ever tried to cover Patrick's ass (didn't they also got a Starnet advertiser also?)?

Sure, if you are a smart guy and you can easily create some hype with short termed public opinions behind you.

But after all, as always, FACTS are all it will count in here.

MLBFAN is a very smart guy, and you have to admit it.

I have no problem at all to admit that I had thought about the "other reasons" only when I re-read his original posts and I also think that he brought a pretty good presentation to the table.

But when he kept circling and circling and tried to hide some simple facts behind us, and the purpose of his posts is just to protect his sole benifits - tried to use this forum's public opinions/supports to force the book to cut a deal with him (as he had stated his purpose DRY and CLEAR in his letter to the book, and he described the supports are almost one-sided and huge for him),

he can kiss my ass and say goodbye.

You think he really want us to discuss whether his bet is on a bad line and how legit is that and that was landed on what kind of grey area?

Then why did he keep all those simple facts from us when he OBVIOUSLY asked for our supports?

Wake up, what this guy want are just something like,

"Pay the man!"

"You got screwed!"

"A bet is a bet!"

"Its Action Sports again!"

So that he can get something behind him to cut a deal with the book, at least thats what he wanted!

This guy didn't come in just ask for some simple opinions, obviously he tried many other ways to collect the 20k before he wanted to try this. I have to say again that his presentation is much better than most of what we have seen before.

But sorry, I have seen something better than that in my life.

[This message has been edited by AYCE (edited 07-04-2000).]

[Dukey]

Ayce,

Why did you have to crawl out of that rock that you were hiding under?

I guess you weren't up to the challenge of backing up the false accusations you made against me. Not a surprise, really. I guess spewing out those false accusations was the natural defense mechanism employed by your brain to make up for the lack of logic stored there.

I see that you are forming an opinion, or should I say making an accusation, AGAIN, without knowing all or any of the facts.

This is a decent site. It's a pity that you have to ruin it for people like me that simply want to state their opinion on certain matters. If someone doesn't agree with my opinion, then thats fine. Tell me why. Argue for, or against the points I presented. You have made no attempt to do so. All you have ever done is make assumptions, and spew accusations.

I start a post regarding soccer sites for certain leagues. You post a sarcastic reply that was somehow intended to leave the impression that I am a professional past poster. It doesn't stop there. Don't start pissing in your pants now from fear. I don't expect a logical response from you regarding these matters, and I don't think any other posters are, either. You are off the hook. I would never EVER expect something from you that I knew you were not capable of.

This will be my last post. My last request from you is to seriously ponder this final question that I pose to you:

So, tell me, do you really have better things to do?

[freak]

Slam Dunk,

Until this mlbfan, comes out and spells out certain specifics, I can't back him 100 %.

I as many others do want to know the shops name, and the tickets(s) involved.

I am not saying the guy/gal shouldn't get paid, but I would love to hear the books side of this issue.

I can't pass judgement on the book besides the fact they had soft spots that got exposed by at least this player if not others.

If this is the case, perhaps they are in fin difficulties, if my money is there, I want to be rest assured I can get it back with no problems....

That about covers it, I repsect your opinion and anyone elses right or wrong.

So mlbfan, come on out and let's talk some more facts, instead of the circle jerk...

[SLAM DUNK]

Let me make this very clear. I have no problem with anybody holding their opinion until all facts are presented. I have no problem with anybody saying that the story sounds suspect.....But MLBFAN has been made out to be a bad guy by SOME. There has been enough discussion on this topic to clearly conclude that this is a VERY GREY AREA. The assumption that this book is at financial risk because of this situation, is a major stretch. I may very well have funds posted at this book, yet because of the grey area involved here, I do respect MLBFAN's right to not bring out the name of the book. This is not a clear cut case of book cheated player, so player should come on board and let the world know. A few here have sided with the book. So according to them the book is guilty of no wrongdoing. Thus why should a book be exposed if they are not guilty of doing anything wrong. What is worse,

1) exposing a book for doing something wrong when they are not guilty of doing anything wrong or

2) not exposing a book for doing something wrong when they are guilty of doing something wrong.

To me they are equal wrongs and because of the grey area, perhaps MLBFAN should actually be given a little credit for not backing down from his stance.

The word "dirtbag" is quite harsh here in my opinion.

In many respects, I agree with Dukey, that Books need to take more responsibility for their own action. But since others are not of that belief it is not a clear cut documented case of theivery as was the UK2000, situation.

The point I am trying to get across is not that MLBFAN is an angel and the book is the bad guy. The point I am trying to make is that this and other forums like it should be a place where ANYONE can bring up their cases, without being accused of being a "dirtbag" or "be ashamed of themselves". The questions, and doubts are are fair game in my book, but the attacks defeat the purpose of this forum. Once again, think about it.

[Dot Mix]

SLAM DUNK

You just don't want to get it.

If someone comes to this forum to receive public empathy and opinion, they need to forthright and bring all the facts. To get us (the forum) collectively involved in his difficulty with getting paid is one thing, but to withhold what may be critical information about a book who is refusing to pay or suddenly acting "out of sorts " is another thing. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of readers here who have a need to know once a problem with a book gets to a dangerous financial point.

The strength of this forum only comes from ONE thing------the ability to bring bad publicity and warn others about a book who is not paying or may have gone sour. Conversely----there are many solid books out there that get extolled and prosper with the positive feedback from BETTORSWORLD! I'm sure hundreds saved thousands because BOOMER came forth with the ACTION SPORTS situation. When he came forth it was as a last resort because he had exhausted every reasonable method of getting paid privately with them. If a person is seeking help in bringing pressure on a book to pay (as has been successfully done here before) they should be prepared to divulge the book and give other people out here who may have monies with that very sports book the opportunity to either try to get out, call the manager and get the issues from his side or simply lay back and let it ride.

This is my issue. A long time ago I stopped playing the game of "I know something that you don't-----na na na na na na"

Dot

[SLAM DUNK]

Dot, which of the 3 points that I made do you disagree with?

1) This is a VERY GREY AREA.

2) There is a huge distincion, between this, where any financial problems would be pure speculation, and Action Sports.

3) It is equally as bad to tarnish the name of a book guilty of no wrongdoing as it is to
not expose a book that is guilty of wrongdoing.


If you do not disagree with any of the 3 points, than who is the one that doesn't want to get this?

[Dot Mix]

Slam Dunk

This dialogue between you and me can be going on until the next millenium.

I'm respectfully pulling the plug on this interminable merry-go-round.

Good luck
Dot

[bighands]

i have been away for the holiday.i guess the victim has decided to take his case elsewhere? it is too bad for all of us that more facts were not brought to the table as we are sending monies off shore to "respected books". it's hard enough to win. i don't want to get beat before the gate opens..good luck, Mark.

[Dot Mix]

hi Mark

Noticed your back in town.

How'd you ever fare out with that Indian sportsbook you were having the problems with? I don't recall reading about any resolution, although it's possible I missed it.

Dot

[bighands]

Hi Dot,
needed a break....good to be back. Yes, Pyramid has paid those customers. took a few months but they did pay. I don't think they will make it through the pre season.It looks like they are playing the float..stay away.
Good Luck, Mark.

[freak]

Well what is the outcome ? Who was or is the book?

Come on mlbfan, why hand the forum a rope, and leave us here hangin.......