who is camelot?

[Jeff]

Brian tends to get animated, but that's Brian. I don't think he said anything about a SCAM book. Those are your words Mark.

I think number one sums it up best.

1) we BOTH firmly believe that BEFORE anyone would consider playing with your book that it uses an established bettorsworld book. We have good business relationships with them and can many times resolve problems with them.

I'm also glad you like to name drop. You mentioned some pretty classy people in your post. I know most of them. Great guys........and there are many many more we could both name.

As a matter of fact, there are many that have never spent a dime here, and never will.

That won't stop me from speaking positively about them, either publicly or behind the scenes.

I hear from many who are on the fence about this book or that book, which many times has resulted in a customer for them based on my answer, and I'm glad for that.

You might want to consider running a professional operation and try to restrain yourself from trashing others in posting forums.

As a player, if I saw a sportsbook owner actively jumping on the bashing bandwagon, I would think twice about giving them my business.

At some point, all the nonsense has to stop.

While no one is above some criticism here and there, and no one is perfect, the trash that is posted about Bettorsworld, and particularly Brian, is unfounded and simply not true.

There's a few morons out there that like to sit back and take their pot shots. They do it because they know they can get a reaction.

It's orchestrated to a tee, and is basically a horse and pony show.

On our end, Brian should try to ignore it. Giving a response is exactly what the morons want. When they get their response, they probably immediatly whack off at the results. That's really a pathetic existence.

People should try to discuss things of importance. Things that are relevant. In this case, anything to do with sportsbetting.

In your case Mark, as a Sportsbook owner or spokesperson, you would do yourself and the industry a favor if you rose above the nonsense, rather than contributed to it and encouraged it.

[Camelot Sportsbook]

1. Where was I EVER a ringleader in contributing to the anti-Bettorsworld sentiment over at MW??? As we discussed in private e-mails, I made it a point to avoid piling on you guys over there.

2. I made exactly ONE comment concerning Bettorsworld and that's where I stated that it was unfortunate that so many people were banned from posting at this site.

3. You say I might want to consider "running a professional" operation and refrain from trashing you??? Where did I trash you...show it to me...you on the other hand just called me unprofessional for no good reason.

4. Name dropping? Wrong, that was merely verification that you can go and check with these sources to verify my good standing in this industry in light of the implications inherent in your earlier posts.

5. According to you guys and I QUOTE, "we will have no choice but to believe that a strong affiliation with mw is a sign of weakness in the book." That is truly one of the most moronic things I have ever seen written on ANY forum in light of the fact that Major Wager counts among their advertisers the likes of Olympic (Spiro posts there regularly), WWTS, WSEX (Jay posts there regularly and is friends with both me and one of the owners of MW), Intertops, etc...

6. Rise above the madness in the bashing between these two sites? Yes, I agree and had endeavored to do so until "Yanksfan" (let's face it that it Brian posting under a different name..we all know it, so let's not pretend anymore) planted the seeds of a bomb that Brian exploded on Camelot without provocation.

6. If you two were truly interested in preventing this kind of stuff from taking place, you would have responded to my private e-mails that were sent to you the past two days.

7. Did I or did I not post on your site without incident for nearly a year and have our recent problems here only arisen from the fact that I am friends with the guys from MW..even though I repeatedly told Jeff in private e-mails that I wanted to remain neutral in your silly war with these guys?

8. I am not looking for an endorsement, but a watchdog site is supposed to value the opinions of others and I ask that you ask your own posters their dealings with Camelot before you state that you do not think it is safe to play with us. Any statement you make to that effect needs to be prefaced with a disclaimer that you have never had anything negative relative to non-payment or any other complaints regarding Camelot. Instead, you opted to preface by implying that Major Wager is my partner and that you cannot trust any sportsbook that has a strong relationship with MW...now in light of that, who is acting unprofessionally in this exchange?

[deepsouth]

Okay, I have to admit this really bothers me. The way Brian was talking it sounds like personal grudges are influencing what sportsbooks make it to The List and quite frankly that scares the living hell out of me. Whatever is really going on, the impression I get from Brian's post is that the desire to screw over MW plays a part in deciding who BW recommends.

I look over the list on a regular basis and I've always held it in high esteem. But this scares the hell out of me. Do you stand by that statement about a strong affiliation with MW being a bad sign about a book? I very much hope you do not.

[Jeff]

Thank you Mark/Camelot for expressing your concerns and criticisms here in Bettorsworld. They are always welcome and will always be considered.

Deep South, thank you as well for your concerns. To answer your question, no, the list has nothing to do with personal grudges. As a matter of fact,I take sole responsibility for that list. No one else has any input over that list, and never will.

One of the most important things to me, is to have a good relationship with those on the list.

People take it seriously, and so do I. I respect eveyone on that list and assume most would feel the same about me. I've never given them a reason to feel otherwise.

It's important when dealing with sportsbook customer problems, that the book and myself share a mutual respect.

Due to this mutual respect, many problems have been solved, and I might add, problems that perhaps the customer was in the wrong, were solved in the customers favor.

Again, thanks to Mark for his insightful remarks. I wish Mark and Camelot all the success in the world.

If players continue with their positive feedback, you'll be well on your way to developing a solid track record.

[bgeorgia]

Let me add to this drawn out affair the following FACTS.

1) i am NOT yanksfan.

2) Lets STOP making the assumption there is a battlefield at MW with BETTORSWORLD and MW.
find a post from me over there over the last 3 months. you mw people take turns throwing shots and feeding off each other.then all of a sudden its he said she said.i'm sick of it- its bullshit on your part.
until that place rids itself of johnny detroits, cecil and a few others, fires will be lit, lies will be told, lines will be crossed. its because of people like moneywiz88 and others.
you can continue to treat these assholes like patrons but we will ignore them or anybody else when our integrity is in question. mw is a fertile ground for bworld bashing and it will NOT go unnoticed here.
we run a professional business and i invest 7 days a week in it. i will not allow anybody to continually bash me personally or our business. to do that would be equivalent of handing over the keys. anybody that knows me well knows that simply won't happen.

bg

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: bgeorgia ]

[Camelot Sportsbook]

Brian,

That's very interesting. I'll check the archives at MW for some of your posts. I would check the archives here for attacks on you by MW people, but I'm sure that many of them were deleted after the poster in question was banned by you.

You have conveniently ignored my question..."Please show me where I said anything negative about Bettorsworld over at Major Wager" You called me the RINGLEADER of an orchestrated attack on you over there, yet I have NEVER said anything negative, never started a thread about BW and made only ONE comment about how it was unfortunate that people were banned. Please show me where I allegedly attacked you...you cannot show me or anyone else because you know I have never done anything of the sort.

Also, do you stand by your statement that any book who has a strong relationship with Major Wager is inherently suspect? I am certain that some of your mutual advertisers would be interested in your response. I need to know because I need to cancel my next dinner plans with Jay in advance...I wouldn't want WSEX to get kicked off of Bettorsworld for associating with people like me or the owners of Major Wager. You do stand by that ridiculous statement then???

[Bman66]

bgeorgia,

I've got to agree with MarkDel on this one. I think you're barking up the wrong tree about both him and Camelot. I post at all three sites under the same username and try to avoid the constant bickering. Just my two cents.


Bman66


Bman66

[pokherplyr]

Ok, just my 2 cents worth,

I wonder if the next time I try to post my password will be working J

I am a $100 - $200 player who has only been with Camelot for a short time. I was very apprehensive about posting up to any offshore books, having already been burned by one crook. The main reason I decided to give Camelot a try was that the owner/manager, Mark Del seemed to be so accessible in TWO other areas that I visit. He responses to questions were always intelligent, and to the point. Seeing this guy in public view, I rationalized that if I post up a small amount ($500 or less) with him and he screws me, I could embarrass him into paying me by screaming about it here as well as other places.

Again, BEFORE posting up with Camelot, I had a total of 3 e-mail correspondence with Mark Del. His private email answers were as to the point as his public posts. After searching the archives at TWO sites, I could not find anything bad about this guy. So, I girded my loins and sent in the cash. Telephoning them to confirm receipt of the funds, Mark got on the line, and thanked me for letting him have the opportunity to earn his business. He spent over 20 minutes answering all my questions, no matter how trivial they may have seemed to him, seeing how I told him up front what limit player I was. I left that conversation thinking, "man, if that guy pays as much attention to a small fry like me, his business is really going to take off!"

Mark has done nothing to make me think I have made a wrong decision. I haven’t beaten him out of a lot (currently up on them $323) and honestly haven’t asked for a payout yet. Let’s face it, that’s the true test. I will comeback and post the results of my request and how it was handled if my password still works.

I would like to see all the infighting between the watchdog sites die down…..it does no one any good. Brian and Jeff have paved the way, and their site has been copied, which is the truest form of flattery.

Just my 2 cents worth

pokher
:cool:

[bgeorgia]

That's very interesting. I'll check the archives at MW for some of your posts. I would check the archives here for attacks on you by MW people, but I'm sure that many of them were deleted after the poster in question was banned by you.

very convenient answer. however, incorrect. the fact is it is a non stop unrelentless attempt on the posters at mw INCLUDING yourself by JOINING in that is simply not even arguable. its so obvoius it is sickening. it goes on EVERY DAY and when it reaches PAGE 2 someone purposely posts to bring it back to the top.

You have conveniently ignored my question..."Please show me where I said anything negative about Bettorsworld over at Major Wager" You called me the RINGLEADER of an orchestrated attack on you over there, yet I have NEVER said anything negative, never started a thread about BW and made only ONE comment about how it was unfortunate that people were banned. Please show me where I allegedly attacked you...you cannot show me or anyone else because you know I have never done anything of the sort.

you are the ONLY book operator that has EVER joined in the posts that contain ANY slanderous negative comments about bettorsworld. you can tell all the bookmakers you wish and i am sure they are thrilled with the actions at MW going non stop 24/7. yeah, they are very pleased about that. anybody that looks at these episodes closely will see there is the same group of lying SOB's behind it. EVERYTIME. you have joined in several times to keep it going.

Also, do you stand by your statement that any book who has a strong relationship with Major Wager is inherently suspect? I am certain that some of your mutual advertisers would be interested in your response. I need to know because I need to cancel my next dinner plans with Jay in advance...I wouldn't want WSEX to get kicked off of Bettorsworld for associating with people like me or the owners of Major Wager. You do stand by that ridiculous statement then???

let me restate my words or meaning without holding any punches. Jeff and I have NO respect for fred or russ. never did, never will. i will not get into detail on the reasons why and will leave it at that.

finally, i will simply say that we are in business to promote the books on bettorsworld. we can help people if and when they get into a bind with one of OUR books. we have working relationships with the books we have. we almost never have a problem with our books.we have been doing this successfully for 5 years. jeff has already defined OUR list. we feel it is the most solid reliable list in the biz. might not be perfect but it is still our list. and it works. we promote the list om the net and in print all year long. this football season more than ever we will promote our list.
we lessen the quality of our list (and integrity) when we allow a book on the list we feel is either suspect, has his own agenda or is very very very close with a group of people who is determined to undermine bettorsworld. you are part of that group. the other books are not. they stay clear and hope it blows over as they have invested their dollars in bworld also.
thankfully, our advertising takes bworld well beyond the posting rooms. it is only a small portion of our web site.
i believe i have covered your questions.
thanks

brian

[Camelot Sportsbook]

Brian,

No, you have far from covered my questions. Up until this most recent post of yours, despite any shortcomings you might have, I assumed you were at least interested in the truth...well this post shows that you are either a blatant liar or completely delusional. As I stated, I made one comment about how it was unfortunate that people were banned from posting here. That's it!!! I started NO threads about you and I did not pile on with the criticism of this site even though it would be warranted in some instances. If there is any instance of overt criticism that I have made of Bettorsworld or Major Wager (and I made it prior to your negative comments about me this week) please feel free to post them here to prove your point, but until such time that you have done that, you have not answered my questions nor proven your ridiculous allegation that I am some "ringleader" ganging up on poor Brian over at MW.

Apparently, you have shown your utter disregard for at least 4-5 of your long time posters here who have stated positive comments about Camelot. Those comments were not only ignored, but I'm certain their passwords were flagged as part of the evil Major Wager conspiracy.

Brian, have you ever wondered why 99% of the posters at Major Wager used to post here, including me? To the new readers of this forum, you may not know the real story of this dispute between these two sites. Virtually everyone who posts at MW used to post here because back then, Bettorsworld used to be a terrific site, but most of those people were banned from BW for having an actual opinion and others were merely driven off by watching their friends banned and ridiculed. The behavior Brian has exhibited in the thread is a grand example of why this posting forum is so much less vibrant than it once was. The real question is, did Brian's behavior cause this mass exodus or did the mass exodus cause Brian's behavior? The answer is it was probably a little of both.

[bgeorgia]

mark,


let me end this post with these comments. YOU don't want the truth to appear because your book will suffer for it.

you are best to leave this forum and never come back. you don't want us to spend any time at things that clearly show some things don't just don't add up for you.

we have had people like you, ivy league know it alls with NO street smarts come in here and tell us how to run our business. if we listened to these people we would be OUT of business.

as more time allows us to paruse more information about you and your history it becomes more clear. we want to just let it go
but if forced to continue this charade we will all have to deal with it. you don't want that and we don't have the time but will make it if we have to.

as far as posters leaving, isn't strange there are HUNDREDS claiming they were banned. and being the gullible person you are you bought it. its actually like a club. a bunch of mw lackeys ALL have been banned.
totally false.

i have respect for my posters here and respect their decision to play with your book. that does not mean i have to agree with the decision they have made.

again, let me say it is best as a sportsbook owner you simply disapear from here. you are not wanted here as i am not wanted where you come from. i don't go there so please stay out of here.

while bworld has been hammered with lie after lie at mw, we continue to be successful because WE deal with the TRUTH.
as jack nicholsen once said "YOU can't handle the truth!" and truer words were never spoken.

you have had your 15 minutes of fame in bettorsworld. NOW SCRAM!



brian

[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: bgeorgia ]

[Dragon]

newbies read this!

If you're new to the wagering world, do your homework! If you're looking for a book, use a book that is time tested over the YEARS. You just don't know what to expect from the new books popping up.

Hey, I'm bored, what can I say.

[Unregistered]

Yeah, these guys we're MAJOR thieves.

[Yipee]

I've taken the time to read this entire thread....and wow. This goes to show that no one really knows what is going on. Camelot caved in pretty quickly, and the other book in this thread, BetMega is also on the blacklist.

The only way to be sure is to let time tell, but that is not an easy task when if no one tests a new place out, they won't survive.....so I'd say the best advice is to find out who is involved....who they are associated with (other books, etc.) and do searches on ALL the "watchdog" sites to get a consensus.

Nothing is easy these days.