Carib settles dispute in players favor

[mls]

You, both books and bettors, are the jury. The facts are not in dispute:

Last October I e-mailed Carib and asked what the payoff was for their 4 horse parlay card if 1 horse scratched. I received the answer 5-1 and began to play almost daily parlay cards (over 200 I believe). On several occasions I bet a 4 horse parlay card and when 1 horse was scratched I was paid 5-1 if the other 3 horses won.

On Friday, January 25th I played a 4 horse parlay card for $100. One horse was scratched but I was only paid 3-1 rather than the 5-1 I had always been paid.

After numerous e-mails and calls I was informed that Carib would only pay me 3-1, as "management decided to change the payoff odds."

The problem is that I was never advised of this "change" although I played almost daily horse parlay cards. And, of course, the payoff when there was a scratched horse on a 4 horse parlay card is not, nor ever has been, on their website (it might be added in the future I was told)

My argument is that, until I was told otherwise, CARIB's offer of 5-1 made to me in October is binding. They knew I was relying on their e-mail offer of 5-1 and that I was playing almost daily horse parlay cards - all they had to do to change the payoff to 3-1 was post it on their website for e-mail me.

Certainly Carib knew when I was placing my parlay card bets that I expected the 5-1 odds they promised if 1 horse was scratched. When they "changed" the offer was any notice given to me? - even though they knew I was playing daily horse parlay cards - no. Why?? (Probably because no sane person would play a parlay card offering 9-1 for 4 winners, but only 3-1 for 3 winners.)

If I am wrong tell me and I will apologize to William at CARIB. If not, if I am being stiffed, then that is another matter ...

Thank you in advance for your opinions.

[ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: Jeff ]

[The Guesser]

If the facts are as you laid them out, Carib owes you money. Carib is an advertiser here, and if they dispute those facts, they should post their side of the story.

[mls]

Bettorsworld provides an valuable service in establishing the facts and reporting whether claims against advertising books are valid.

Such objective investigation and reporting is a great service to the offshore book industry because both frivolous and meritorious claims are identified.

I have therefore officially asked Bettorworld to investigate my claim against CARIB.

[Dragon]

When I read your post I immediately went to caribs site to see if this was posted, and it was:

General Rules and Regulations for INTERNET ACCOUNTS
All rules, regulations, and payoffs contained herein are subject to change and revision by the management of Carib Sports without prior notice.

That would appear to be their out, making them, not wrong. However, they should have posted that somewhere or made an attempt to notify you I think.

[<ACTUALITY>]

[quote]Originally posted by Dragon:


General Rules and Regulations for INTERNET ACCOUNTS
All rules, regulations, and payoffs contained herein are subject to change and revision by the management of Carib Sports without prior notice.

---

WAY TO GO DRAGON.

CASE CLOSED!

[mls]

Only one problem with that argumnet ...

The payout for 1 scratch was not, nor ever has been, "contained herein (on their website)."

Of course, if the payout was changed on their website, as I have already said, I would have no case, since the change would have been clearly listed on their website (i.e., notice).

The problem is that while no notice of a change MADE ON THEIR WEBSITE FOR ALL TO READ does not require "further" notice, I received no notice at all.

To cover my situation the following would have to be included on the website:

"For payoffs not covered on our website we reserve the right to quote odds but change them to anything we want if you win, without notice to you before you place the bet."

In conclusion, your argument Dragon is simply not relevant. A change in a payout "listed on their website" is "notice" for all to read.

But a change in a payout never stated on the website, nor anywhere else, cannot be changed without notice (phone call/e-mail). Period.

[mls]

Another example might help those readers who fail to grasp the relevant facts ...

I call Spiro at Olympic and say I want to made a 20 team parlay on football. He says we don't have that offered on our site but I'll pay 10,000 to 1!

So I start betting daily $10 20 team parlays. Finally I hit and ask Spiro for my $100,000.

Would Spiro, or any other reputable book, tell me the same thing William at CARIB did:

"Sorry Sir, last night we changed the odds for a 20 team parlay to 1,000-1. We'll only pay you $10,000 rather than $100,000."

[<ACTUALITY>]

[quote]Originally posted by mls:


To cover my situation the following would have to be included on the website:

"For payoffs not covered on our website we reserve the right to quote odds but change them to anything we want if you win, without notice to you before you place the bet."

---

CARIB IS A GREAT BOOK THAT DOSEN'T DESERVE A THREAD ENTITTLED:

Topic: Stiffed by CARIB ... or not?

IF I WAS J.R.MY REPLY TO YOU WOULD BE:

"CARIB BOOKS CLAIMING HORSES,NOT PLAYERS WHO MAKE FRIVOLOUS CLAIMS..."

[<ACTUALITY>]

A MORE SUCCINCT WAY TO PUT IT WOULD BE:

"CARIB BOOKS HORSES THAT ARE CHEAP CLAIMERS,NOT PLAYERS WHO MAKE CHEAP CLAIMS..."

[stardust]

Carib was the very first place I signed up online and I have had a very good experience with them.

However, I am disturbed by the recent disputes that, in the big picture, are really small potatoes.

Some time ago a player complained about large (4K) parlays on the overnights. They didn't pay him based on him betting into a bad line. I'm not sure how that was resolved. I feel like they should have paid him based on what the line should have been, but they booked the action and should pay.

Next someone was complaining about the $30 or so charged on a payout. They cited some rule and it needed an attorney's interpretation as to why the player had to pay the $30.

Now this guy is not getting paid based on a boilerplate clause you could find on any site. Hell, you can even find it on the back of an airline ticket.

So ACTUALITY, you buy a ticket from LAX to BWI and when you get to the airport, they tell you the flight has been changed and it leaves from San Diego, citing of course their neat little clause about changing the conditions when they like. They show you the clause and of course you mutter Case Closed as you drove to San Diego. Sure you would.

Like they didn't know the guys was betting daily paralys at $100 a shot? He played over 200 of them . . . baloney.

You have terms that were agreed to by both player and book - 5-1 for a 3 horse payout in case of a scratch on a 4 horse ticket.

You have prior practice that the player was paid at that rate under those conditions.

Then you have a unilateral change in the agreement, without notice to the other party. Totally bogus!

And lets look at the bigger picture. The book and the player are arguing over what - $200? Be serious - the guy will put that back in two days of these parlays and then the rest of the week is pure profit.

Is Carib being more fiscally prudent under their new management philosophy, or are they concerned about a $200 payout.

All I can say is that this is bad for business.

As always - Good Luck,

Sonny

[<ACTUALITY>]

[quote]Originally posted by stardust:


So ACTUALITY, you buy a ticket from LAX to BWI and when you get to the airport, they tell you the flight has been changed and it leaves from San Diego, citing of course their neat little clause about changing the conditions when they like. They show you the clause and of course you mutter Case Closed as you drove to San Diego. Sure you would.

---

NO SONNY I WOULDN'T LIKE IT BUT THE FACT REMAINS IT WAS SPELLED OUT IN THE RULES AND REGULATIONS ON THEIR WEBSITE.

WHAT REALLY OFFENDS ME IS THE TOPIC TITTLE WHICH IN MY HUMBLE OPINION IS A CHEAP ATTEMPT AT CYBERBLACKMAIL:

Stiffed by CARIB ... or not?

AND THE TWO FACED POSTER WHO NOW DESCRIBES SPIRO OF OLYMPIC THUSLY BECAUSE IT SUITS HIS PURPOSE:

[quote]
Originally posted by mls:


Another example might help those readers who fail to grasp the relevant facts ...

I call Spiro at Olympic and say I want to made a 20 team parlay on football. He says we don't have that offered on our site but I'll pay 10,000 to 1!

So I start betting daily $10 20 team parlays. Finally I hit and ask Spiro for my $100,000.

Would Spiro, or any other reputable book, tell me the same thing William at CARIB did:

"Sorry Sir, last night we changed the odds for a 20 team parlay to 1,000-1. We'll only pay you $10,000 rather than $100,000."

---

NOW THAT IT SUITS MLS'S PURPOSE SPIRO AND OLYMPIC HAVE BECOME A "reputable book".

WHEN IT DIDN'T SUIT MLS'S AGENDA HE TRIED SPREADING A RUMOR THAT SPIRO WAS IN FINANCIAL TROUBLE BECAUSE SOMEONE LOOKED AT HIS OPERATION FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING AN OFFER TO BUY IT.

MLS WENT ON FURTHER TO SAY HE WAS CLOSING HIS ACCOUNT AT OLYMPIC AND WAS RECOMMENDING TO HIS TWLEVE FRIENDS THAT HE ALLEDGES HE BROUGHT THEIR TO DO THE SAME THING.

IT GOT SO BAD THAT SPIRO HAD TO COME IN HERE AND POST THAT ANYBODY WHO WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THERE MONEY COULD CALL IMMEDIATELY FOR A PAYOUT!

MLS'S ATTEMPTED CYBER BLACKMAIL DIDN'T WORK THEN AND I HOPE IT DOSEN'T WORK NOW...

[eagle96_99]

I think this may be why people dont seem to come here anymore. Anytime there is a dispute, posters come in and immediately back the book.

Why don't we just let BW research the case and then we will see the results. MLS is getting abused because he has an issue. What a joke! Isn't this part of what this site is for? To air out possible issues?

[Jeff]

eagle96_99,

Who is abusing him? Just Actuality. I don't agree with your statement at all. Actuality is making a case against him and backing carib. A couple of others have said he should be paid.

[eagle96_99]

Jeff,

Yes actuality is abusing him. Do you really think that the statments made by actuality are just presenting a case? Saying that the subject header should be "back cheap claims" or whatever it was is not presenting a case.

[<ACTUALITY>]

[quote]Originally posted by eagle96_99:


I think this may be why people dont seem to come here anymore. Anytime there is a dispute, posters come in and immediately back the book.

---

I WOULD RETHINK THIS STATEMENT.

ACROSS THE STREET THERE IS A CERTAIN B.M.WHO POSTS ON A DAILY BASIS AND THE POSTERS ARE EXTREMELY HAPPY WITH HIS POSTING AND IT SEEMS THE SERVICE HE IS PROVIDING.

WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH HIS BOOK 9 OUT OF 10 POSTERS TAKE HIS SIDE.

IT CERTAINLY DOSEN'T SEEM TO BE AFFECTING SITE TRAFFIC THERE...