Bet365USA - Suckers only, please

[sportshobby]

I believe that all players should be offered the same wagering opportunities and limits, regardless of their profile. Only then is there a fair game. Sportsbooks that pick and choose who they allow to play, and set odds and limits based on player profiles, want to be sure they maximize their profits gouging the suckers while avoiding the good players. There are very large, solid, successful sportsbooks that take on all players; so don't tell me that it is not possible to make a profit this way.

Sadly, quite a few sportsbooks don't operate this way. If they can get rid of the winners, or cut their limits dramatically, then they can beat the rest.

While I disagree with this philosophy, at least I respect sportsbooks that clearly post their policy on this matter. If nothing else, it keeps a sharp player from wasting his time in setting up an account and trying their services.

Bet365USA has taken the profiling approach to a new level. This may be a record: after making one single wager for $500 my limit was cut by a factor of five (to $100). Needless to say, I'm moving on and wish I hadn't wasted my time. It seems almost comical. Is this a big, solid British sportsbook or a scared startup?

[PerpetualCzech]

That's interesting info. Did they tell you this personally or you just noticed it making your next bet? Maybe it was just a software problem.

[underdog]

Sportshobby,

I know the feeling. I was kicked out of Gameday and 7palms the first day playing even though I LOST!

The British books may be safe but they are useless to bet into. Low limits, stalling on the phone, not honoring lines, etc. Strictly for squares and suckers!

[phep]

Bet365 is one of the worst for gouging players I've ever seen. Their Asian Handicap Soccer lines are the worst on the internet, bar none, posting an outrageous 40 cent line. This is like posting a 50 cent line for the NFL (125/100 both ways) which nobody in their right mind would bet into. The worldwide accepted standard is a 15 cent line. There are a couple of online sportsbooks that offer a 15 cent line and most offer no worse than a 20 cent line. Anyone that bets into these odds is truly an uninformed sucker, and that is apparently the only type of customers this place is interested in. Unfortunately, there are probably enough of them to make the owners of Bet365 wealthy. It would be a lot less stressful to just write them a check and be done with it since there is no way under the sun that you can win.

[PerpetualCzech]

Bet365 was happy to come in here and tell us about their promotion for the Lakers/Knicks game so we know that they are following the boards. I think it'll say a lot about the personality of the company whether they come here and join in this discussion.

[sportshobby]

PC, I thought it must be a software problem and made an inquiry to customer service. They replied that it was due to the "type of player" that I am.

[bet365director]

bet365usa

As Trading Director of bet365usa I am happy to answer questions. We believe we are offering something new to the market, with, for example, our feature allowing points to be sold as well as bought.

We are a substantial business with over 50 betting shops in the UK (addresses on the web) and have been in business since 1974. My own family has been in business as bookmakers since 1921, and I joined the family firm in 1979 after a few years as a Chartered Accountant.

I thought up the Knicks/Lakers promotion and am proud of it, as it gave something back to so many of our customers. We booked more basketball this week than we ever have done before. We won more on Saturday than we lost on Sunday. In fact, Sunday was only a small losing day overall because of the good soccer results. Of course, we knew that there was a danger of being middled. In a way I wanted it to happen, because then everone would be talking about us. Many of us have seen our wager go down with the last scoring play – this was the appeal of the offer.

Now to the specific questions. On the question of limits, the amounts offered will depend on the markets and time. So sides will be offered to greater limits than totals, and the overnight limits will be lower.

For customers who appear only to make sharp plays we will cut limits. Sometimes we are encouraging them to ‘phone, so that we can decide what bet to lay. It is always worth ‘phoning – we are open 24 hours – as we will often offer more than is available on the net. We have a very good reputation in the UK both for customer service and for laying a decent bet – forums like www.punterslounge.com consistently rate us very highly.

On the specific question of Asian Handicaps, we bet to 20 cent lines and to lose £3000 from 8.30 a.m on the day of the match. Most of our UK competitors only bet Asian Handicaps on the day of the match. We put prices up earlier with wider margins and lower limits – this would explain phep’s experience above. He must have been looking the day before the match.

We have only been betting on the web for a year, so we will be making continual improvements both to our software and to the way we trade. We are far from perfect, but we are trying hard to offer the best possible service to our worldwide customers. I will always listen to criticism, good and bad. We are in business to make money but, in my long experience, you can only do that my treasuring your customers. This is what we do.

Will Roseff.
Trading Director, bet365usa.

[PerpetualCzech]

Thanks Will, it was good to hear from you and it sounds like you are sincere about customer care. After considering whether to sign up with your company I'm afraid I've decided that I can't become a client of yours. With your policy of limiting wagers for sharp players, this puts your customers at a serious disadvantage in that they do not have the opportunity to win as much as you will allow them lose. It seems to me that with this policy you are treasuring only certain types of customers and not others, and I don't think that is fair.

I did not check to see if you have posted your policy but if sportshobby is right, then I feel you have an obligation to clearly state it on your website somewhere so that players know they are playing with this disadvantage before they sign up with you.

Regards,

PerpetualCzech

[phep]

Perhaps it was prior to match day that I saw the 40 cent lines. I will check your site on match day Tuesday and see what you have available. Howver, it is not accurate to say that other bookmakers are doing the same thing. All the bookmakers online that offer Asian Handicaps, at least the ones I'm aware of, post 15 to 20 cent lines two to three days prior to the matches. Retaining a 40 cent line up until match day is still unacceptable and I will neither use nor recommend Bet365 until this is changed. Give us a fair bet and you will get business although after reading the posts related to cutting limits, you probably don't want my business or those I'm associated with. Your response is appreciated.

[brink]

Will,

How can you cut someones limit after just one play? Wouldn't that decision have to come after at least a sampling of wagers?

[bet365director]

Brink,

Nobody here knows of anybody who has been cut after just one play. It would help if sportshobby emailed us with his username so that I can look into it.

Will ([email protected])

[jjgold]

bet365usa.com

Good solid book where you know your money is safe. Very experienced in gaming and solid as a rock. Maybe they do not favor big bettors but for the average bettor one of the best in the business. Relatively new in US markets but have been around a long long time. Give them a try.

[grover]

Good Hockey book, with puck and moneylines, website always fast not bogged down . I like the custom teasers too

[sportshobby]

jjgold, I'm sure everyone's definition of a "big" bettor and an "average" bettor is different, but my sole wager at BET365USA was for $500 and the limit was cut to $100. To many players that is not a "big" bet.

Will, I have nothing to lose so I'll e-mail you my username. I do pride myself in being a sharp player, so I suspect that if you had waited until you'd seen 100 wagers you might have come to the same conclusion.

This is not to say that I agree with what you did - I think it is blatantly unfair across the board to profile players and allow them to lose more than they can win (well put, P.C.). But at LEAST post your crummy policy on your website so serious players don't waste their time trying to play there.

[bet365director]

Thanks, Sportshobby, for sending me your username.

Your story is right, of course, although the details are not quite right. You are on 25% limits on the web, which means right now you could bet $500 on sides, $250 on totals NBA and $125 on totals NCAA. I just checked the figures.

My trading manager obviously picked you as a sharp player quickly and, from what you say, he was right.

However, you're usually going to get bigger bets on if you telephone us. We're open 24 hours, ask to speak to one of the trading team when you call.

Will