Bet365USA - Suckers only, please

[PerpetualCzech]

I'm still a little confused here ... is your policy which discriminates against players posted on your website or not? I'm a little disappointed you didn't address my post because I thought I presented a pretty good arguement on why players should be wary of the disadvantage they are playing with at your sportsbook.

[PerpetualCzech]

Holy smokes, something just hit me from your post which I find incredible! What if a first-time bettor happened to come to your site and bet $500 on the same game sportshobby did? How could you possibly distinguish between a novice and a sharp player based on one bet??

[jjgold]

First Quarters

Do not bet 1st quarters at this place. They are trying to get suckers to play the favorite and lay the extra money. Books that do this will get all your money because they have a computer program that shows everyone's betting tendencies and they picked up that 1st quarter bets players are betting the favorites and they ar raising the juice, a cant win situation for bettor. Shop around and you can get the same line as Bet365 with just the normal -110 as opposed to 125!!!!!!

[PerpetualCzech]

What if I like the dog? Seems like an ideal place to bet if that is the case ...

[PerpetualCzech]

... except fot the fact that it is not possible to win as much as you stand to lose ...

[sportshobby]

Will, perhaps you have a complicated policy for determining limits, which depends on the game, the time of day, particular situation of a game, etc, etc. But I do know that I tried to place a wager on a game mid-day and got the limits that I originally stated. When I inquired about these limits to customer service, and they followed up with an inquiry to the betting/trading managers, it was basically confirmed that there was nothing wrong (as I thought might have been) with the limits being quoted to me. So either more than one department of your company really missed the buble on my inquiry, or you have just increased my limits by a factor of 2.5

Forgetting about all of that, let me ask you this: assuming I'm a sharp player, what limits would I likely get if I phoned in a wager? and would I be placed on hold while the clerk consulted 2-3 managers to determine whether the bet could be confirmed?

[bet365director]

Sportshobby,

Yes, it must be that you were betting a game where we had lower limits overall, we do change them at times. We haven't made any more changes to your profile.

As I said before, ask for the U.S. trading team the moment you 'phone up. This will mean you'll know what bet you've got quicker.

I can't tie my traders down to a figure, but I reckon you might be pleasantly surprised. If you're not, I'm sure you'll let everyone know here.

Perpetual, I'm not going to post a policy because our trading team's mission is to make profits and increase the business. The only way to do this is to offer the best possible service to customers without throwing money away. If I tie my Trading Team down to a particular policy, it might stop them achieving our targets. We have lots of winning customers who are on normal limits. Maybe there are one or two reading this post who would confirm this.

[PerpetualCzech]

Fair enough, after all both the player and the sportsbook are playing the game to maximize their own profits, not to throw money away as you say. As an aside, it is actually refreshing to hear you say this ... one of my pet peeves in the industry is listening to advertising pretending to be sincere when they wish you good luck on your bets (e.g. Bowman's just had a post here the other day where they claimed they "hope you had a good month")

I don't even need to hear someone confirm they are a winning player with you; I am sure you have many players who are up in their lifetimes playing lower limits (or maybe by getting lucky and hitting a big parlay).

But I don't understand why posting all policy like this would tie your Trading Team down. I didn't mean to suggest that you state that any player who wins in the long run will have their limits cut. But I think you are being unfair if you do not warn the player ahead of time that you that the limits s/he will have is up to your discretion and I think I presented a pretty good argument above as to why.

Please understand that I do not think you are being dishonest by adopting this policy. I would even consider it myself if I were running a sportsbook, although I would be afraid that if players saw it that they may not choose to sign up with me. But if I chose to discriminate against my players I do feel it would be dishonest not to tell them of this of this ahead of time.

[PerpetualCzech]

I get the feeling bet365usa is wishing this thread will just fade away without having to back up their questionable policy of discriminating against their customers.

Hello Bet365usa, this forum is still here and waiting to hear from you regarding the issues raised in this thread.

1. How can you justify having a policy that puts your players in a position of not being able to win as much from you as you can win from them?

2. If you still insist on trying to burden your customers with this disadvantage, will you at least post this policy on your website to let them know about it ahead of time?

3. Based on just one play, how can you tell the difference between a sharp player and one that just happens to like the same game?

Looking forward to your reply, thanks.

[oddsmaker]

Bet365USA

Thank you 365Director,

Coming forward in this fashion shows the sistematically proper taste of our european counterparts. Many people in other books would just hide for weeks and let people chat on without presenting or explaining a possible solution. In my humble opinion a book in todays market needs to have this type of attitude to stay in business, posting perfect lines is just not enough. Eventhough, player selection is an evryday fact in this industry there are books that especialize in sharp players. They will take all the action you wish to send their way. But one thing is for sure, the european conterparts will always come forward no matter what the situation. In a worst case scenario they will produce a respectable answer.

[PerpetualCzech]

LOL, this first-time poster must sure be enthusiastic about European books for him to get up at 5:30 am Miami time (11:30 am Central European time)to sign up and post his views on them.

Unfortunately I couldn't understand some parts of the post but I think he is praising the way bet365usa has come forward to address the issues brought up in this thread. This is a little bizzare since I still don't see their explanation for the points that I raised.

[bet365director]

bet365usa.com

Perpetual,

As I said before, I am happy to answer questions and I thought I’d already done so.

To answer your questions one by one:

1. The justification for our trading policy is that we are in business to make profits. Every one of our winning customers has been paid in full for the last 28 years since we took our first bet in 1974, and every one of our winning cutomers will be paid in full for the next 28 years and beyond. We don’t have a trading policy of cutting winning customers, but we reserve the right to restrict sharp players if our trading team take the view that this is in the interests of the business. If you make sharp plays, and you win, you will still be paid in full of course. Our reputation in the UK is high for taking substantial bets and trading fairly. We have built our business of 55 cash betting shops across the UK on the back of that reputation.
2. Because our policy on restricting sharp players is flexible, we do not intend to post any such policy on the web. Most sharp players can get a decent bet anyway, but they may have to telephone first. If you are sharp enough to get restricted , what have you lost anyway? You have won money from us, which has been paid, and you have that money in your bank. Some hardship.
3. It would not normally be possible to identify a sharp player from one bet. I’m not sure how our trading team identified Sportshobby in this way, but he has admitted here that he is a sharp player, so they weren’t wrong.

Last week, we opened 2837 new internet/telephone accounts worldwide. 76 of them said that they heard about us on bettorsworld. I am confident that all of them will enjoy their membership of bet365usa.

Will Roseff.

[PerpetualCzech]

Giving different lines to different customers is also a "flexible" policy, but it doesn't mean that it is a fair one.

Looks like we will just have to agree to disagree here. I feel a policy that gives different players unequal chances of winning is unfair and you feel that it is fair. Unfortunately this is not easily proveable either way ... it is just a matter of opinion and readers of this forum will just have to judge for themselves.

To answer your question: if I am sharp enough to get restricted, I have lost the time and effort required to open an account with your book. Not exactly what I would call a hardship; more like a pain in the neck that was easily avoidable had I known about your policy beforehand.

If I were to run a sportsbook and really thought my policies were fair to my players, I can't think of any reason why I would want to hide them from my customers.

[oddsmaker]

Perpetual, exactly what part of the post don't you understand. I though I made my point very clear. In comparing shops from all over the world, most european shops will come forth and show their face regardless of the situation at hand. This is not the case with shops from other parts of the world. They are out there and you know that very well. 365director is providing you with a direct answer to your question. The fact is that the books exist to make a profit. Try your luck, some seasons you may be a sharp player and other seasons you may be a square where you cannot hit one SB. So, give credit where credit is due, 365director is showing and hence proving to you that he has no need to hide or change his policies. They have been in business for more than twenty years, why don't you try running a book for one football season and see how you fair since you would be so honest and nice to your customers. When shove comes to push, I am 100% sure you will not place your name on a public post such as this in the same manner that 365 director did. I am sorry to say that I am not that naive and neither are you. But hey, if you think you can maintain a good marging from your handle being so "nice" and undescriminatory with your potential clients, please go for it.

LOL yeah, right!!

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Bet365: Speaking from a small time players perspective I can only say the rants in this thread make me all the more confident that you will be around another x amount of years.While I know the few sharps don't like it there are MANY of us small timers that are looking for a safe haven where we can entertain ourselves and feel secure. While I bet almost exclusively golf with you I have enjoyed your array of golf props immensely and props to you for putting up line on the beards and bush(Seniors and LPGA) an area that few books will venture. CHEERS