CRIS ANNOUNCEMENT

[Cashman]

if everyone would immediately take out their $$$$ to books that are threatning 20cent line we can put an end to this. I would urge everyone with an account with CRIS to phone them up and close their accounts. Tell them you are against 20cent line and will not do busines with any book even considering it. It is very important that we send the message to all offshores that this is 100% unacceptable. CRIS sets the lines for for the offshores. They are the standard. If they go to 20cent line then vast majority will fallow. Lets to together on this and support the books all season long that use 10cent baseball line. Don't let this happen!

[DoubleJJ]

To Bgeorgia-
If I fel that this forum had asked the questions I asked, I guess people wouldnt have told me I was to abrasive, so it gives me noother reason to assume these questions havent been asked as direct as I do.
T0 betcris.com-
I will give you the benefit of the fact that maybe my screen with CRIS wagering wasnt refreshed, I know it was from logging right away, but I will give you the courtesy of saying that the lines may not have been not as refreshed as the lines 'could' have been.
Fair enough?..Lets move on...I dont know your business plan or expenses, but baseball is the only board sport primarily for 3 months, correct?..Im assuming here at that time volume might fall off, and some of the staff isnt working as many hours, etc. Cost in general, and handle I think would be lower then the other 9 months, it is hard as a player to sympathise with a book, when they say they cant profit for only 3 months a year. What if the scenerio was reversed, and the players could only afford to lose 3 months a year, what would you do then?? As anyone knows about gambling, its about bankroll, Im assuming you make profits during the other months, primarily in football season. Do you not use the 9 months profits to carry you through the baseball season?? And if its not the pro's or syndicates you are worrying about, then its the suares, you claim....so your scared the squares will win in baseball, but not givie it back in the fall???...That is bookmaking 101, let them hold it, knowing youll get it back, plus some.
Do I know how many offshore books struggle in the summer?..No I dont, do you know how mnany restauraunts go out of business in their first year in New York City. Its all supply and demand, and good product. Thats why maybe the offshore comunnity should concern itself with "client preservation" rather then turning a proift all the time. You build a good business tehy will stay. Learn from New York bookmakers, who have had the same clients for 20 and 25 years.
Speaking of NY BM's everyone knows they tried this 20 cent line in NY 10 years ago. With out much success, learn from history, why chase your own players away. As far as would I bet into a 20 cent line with a responsible office, no I wouldnt, I look for value, and their are plenty of men, who will stand their grounds for the 10 cent line, that have top reputations, not to mention the outlaws in NYC, that have been doing this for years. Double JJ

[DoubleJJ]

One last thing about profiling, I will not even respond to that. ( I guess I will) Its is known the off shore community does it. I have friends who have worked down their, and told me how its done. Are you sure sir, that you at no time have done this???..Even when Monti was their?? Lets becareful how we respond to that one, sorry for the tone.

[betcris.com]

CRIS does not profile customers, period. I have argued with many other bookmakers who choose to profile there clients and I don't understand it. We advertise our numbers to the public on the Don Best Screen and we honor those numbers every once in a while the changes may not go through properly or our clerk miss punching in a change. For the most part the numbers on the screen are 99.9% of time accurate with the exception of those two instances and maybe a few other that I can't think to mention at this time. They might be off when two wiseguys hold up the wagering ofice betting different side in which case the line manager moves the game back and forth until the order is filled by both clients. Other than that the numbers are accurate. Also the number you get quoted over the phone remains with no surprises or no one getting put on hold.

20 Cents--

It sound like you are taking the move to 20 cents a bit personal and for reasons I can understand. As far as CRIS is concered we don't care if an individual wins or loses. We only care about volume and grinding to the book percentages. As far as I know, after crunching the numbers we cannot even break even with a 10 cent line even if we have no overhead. My point is, yes the players are entitled to win ask around I believe they have been doing it all basketball season, (just a joke, but true) however most books want to run a business and always be in a position to pay winning customers. The dime line is like playing catch with a hand gernade, as you throw back and forth you risk the gernade going off. You are taking the move to 20 cent personal and you have the right to close your account and go somewhere else, maybe send that money to a strager(see the above) and hopefully that gernade will not go off when you go to request your money.

In any event, we may go to a 20 cent line or we may not. If we do its a business decision and a risk we take if people choose to do business else where. Truth is the smart thing to do for bookmakers is to go to a long line. Believe me the bettors will be upset and for good reason but I know how tough it is offshore and many new start ups or square business completely struggle and hold on for dear life until September. (the simple truth)

Kind regards
John Melton www.betcris.com
1-800-596-8946

[BigMoney]

John, I admire you for coming here and talking frankly about the hotly contested 20 cent baseball line issue. I understand your point of view, and do not wish to bash you for it.

As I've said many times over, the books who choose this path will see little or no action from me during the baseball season. Likewise, I will naturally need to keep less money there and will withdraw appropriately. And come football season, I'll be more likely to bet with the places I already have funds in place (the places that dealt a 10 cent baseball line).

So there's no reason to flame these books, or threaten them, or accuse them of being greedy. It's just simply a financial decision that they must consider, and a financial decision that the smart bettors must respond to accordingly.

The books that deal a 20 cent baseball line will lose baseball volume, will lose post-up deposit amounts, and will lose volume in the fall on football as a result. Simple as that.

[reno]

I've just returned from my Caribbean tour and Asian adventure, and I'm excited about getting ready for the upcoming baseball season. And then I check my mail and see that the IRS wants 40 dimes from me. Then I check into Bettorsworld and learn that CRIS is spearheading a move to implement an industry-standard 20-cent line. Maybe I should go back on vacation.

Seriously, in my opinion, a move to a 20-cent line is a Draconian measure. What makes much more sense for BM-weak books like CRIS (which, as I've stated before, doesn't have a clue in baseball)is a 15-cent line. The sharp BMs should still turn a profit with a 10-cent line.

The move to the 20-cent line is symptom-based rather than cause-based. The real problem is weak lines. CRIS and other books should find and handsomely reward people who can make better lines.

[reno]

One other thing. It's not set in concrete that CRIS has to be the industry-leading sportsbook. Sure, they're big and solid. But it wouldn't surprise me to see a sharper book eventually supplant them

[chestrockwells]

I would like to say thanks CRIS as well for coming on here and sharing their side. One thing that's rarely brought up it seems, is the fact that whether a book has a good or bad season ;cash flow is almost always better than in most businesses. Hey if you run a restaurant and no one comes in for a day there is no cash flow. On the other hand if you run an offshore book and you have a losing baseball season to the tune of let's say a million bucks....you may or may not be hurting. It depends upon how much of that million is actually disbursed to the customer, it depends on the volume of new accounts generated during that period of time etc. Right? The bottom line is that all businesses want to make as much as possible all the time but this whole 20 cent thing smells like a bit of collusion and I'm not going to play into it.

[This message has been edited by chestrockwells (edited 03-11-2000).]

[greg]

jeff k, fridays 6 est others average 10est. for conference tourney action oly has always beaten cris this year by about 1 hr. they werent online for regular seasiono oly puts up add on games that cris does not, in fact oly may have been the only book to line the ala at ark hoop game 2-9 when cotton and others injured and listed as doubtful. Cris does beat carib in posting lines.

[chestrockwells]

What??

[Jeff]

I still think there is one simple answer for the books considering the move to 20 cents.

Rather than go to a 20 cent line across the board, and piss off everyone, simple stagger the line, using a 10,15 and 20 cent line.

Hold a dime up to -130 or so, then go to 15 up to -170 or so, at which point you'd go to 20 cents.

It's the only solution that makes sense (other than not switching). This way here, you keep most of your players, probably, as they'll still want to play into a solid shop, and will still have a "chance" to profit.

It's called a compromise, and SHOULD be strongly considered by all, for the simple fact that it's the books loyal players, customers who have stuck with a given book for years, that make them "solid". It's these players that have spread the word about any particular book.

Bottom line is, the books want a 20 cent line, and the players want a dime. Maybe no one should "win". Maybe neither side should have the attitude that "it's my way and my way only".

Compromise.........

[BigMoney]

Reno, welcome back.

While you were gone, we filled the void talking about (1) books that deal different lines to different players; (2) books that cancel wagers after they are made, claiming that the lines were in error; (3) accusations that Skybook won't honor the lines on the feed, and (4) the 20 cent baseball line. Check the archives.

I'm anxious to hear about your travels.

[bsky2]

Reno and others

Maybe just maybe the offshore books and vegas for that matter do not hire or have oddsmakers. The numbers alledgely originate in Vegas and now it seems from Olympic. I know for a fact Ken White works as an consultant and provides some outs with baseball lines. Can Roxy or whoever be that bad in setting baseball lines? It seems that 95% or more of the books have the same numbers so they all must be originating from the same place.

Could some of you more knowledgeable baseball handicappers and or bookmakers enlighten me on just what is going on and where do the numbers REALLY originate?

[reno]

Big Money, I just started working on a post about my travels. It should be ready in a couple of days.

Regarding a void, I honestly see none. What I see as I check the archives are a multitude of outstanding posts and replies. Oddswiz Rants & Raves is better than ever.

[Cashman]

Screw compromise. If some books do not stick with 10cent line then they lose our business. Not just for baseball but for 12 months of the year. I would urge all players to only play with books offering traditional 10cent lines. Pull your money out off the books that will not offer 10cent lines up to minimim -180. The bettors will decide this issue. If you guys don't want to get shafted, only support books that stick with 10cent lines. Place your vote with your wallet and we can put an end to this nonsence.