Instantodds v. Don Best

[mls]

As most know, Don Best recently took Skybook off their live odds feed. No book on the Don Best feed had more different numbers in basketball and baseball than Skybook (most of the other books on the feed are simply clone books where I NEVER found a different number).

Now by different numbers I do not mean middle shots - I mean small differences which add up. I play my own sides and an extra 1/2 point in basketball and an extra 3-5 cents in baseball can mean a lot over a year's play.

Obviously I and many others were upset when Don Best refused to post Skybook's lines - it was like paying $500/month for live stock quotes and waking up one morning to kind the AMEX quotes all gone!

Below is a post by Instantodds which I found very interesting. The proof of this new lines service will be seen in a few weeks I hope. By I would note that 2 programmers today can accomplish what 35 could not years ago when Don Best started. So I will keep an open mind.

I for one (since I need Skybook) - and I suspect all smaller but serious players who cannot justify Don Best's $500/month - will be hoping that Instantodds is a success.

I foresee unavoidable startup pains but I make the 6 month success result line:

Instantodds wins: -300
Instantodds fails: +240


Now for Instantodds "press release":

"Irish: i use the skybook livefeed every day.just log onto their website log onto baseball odds at about11a.m. ,i have that offsite as a favourite so i can check the moves all day.
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InstantOdds:
The problem with most of the books software on their pages is that they are on "Pull technology". That means the only time it updates is when it refreshes. How fast depends on how fast the book sets the refresh. ie. 2 minute refresh could actually display as much as a 4 minute delay.
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mls:
Lou Diamonds new free (for now) live feed is just going operational.
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InstantOdds:
I know in your e-mail you said even a small charge would work if it makes it faster. Money is not the issue. It's development. Not just on our end, the book has to set aside time for development. Having all different kinds of programming to match into one program takes time. A helluva lot more than I ever imagined. The service will ALWAYS be free. We will survive through
banner advertising and our ORIGINAL handicapping database. Putting the burden on the books to pay to get the player his info. Giving the player just a little more of an edge. Our low cost maintenece will make us VERY reasonably priced so the books won't feel like they're being raped thus, ensureing a LONG TERM relationship. About 25% of what BW charges for banners. Which, in turn means, it'll be tough for competition to do the same for the low cost we were able to build this with. You need to remember, we already have an *original* database to marry the odds. injuries/weather won't be hard to add at all. I don't know what Dana pays for the DBC data. But I believe we made quite a large savings just on that. It'll cost others in the future to a) build their own, or b) pay dbc to have what everybody has anyway.
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mls:
By tomorrow they say they will have:
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InstantOdds:
I guess we already missed this deadline. Here's a new one for WWTS. Friday in the am.
WWTS

They will be 2nd in automation behind Carib. We are completing the programming as I write this.

Premiere
Post Time
Margarita
Loose Lines
Cyberbetz
Wsex

They have all agreed to post to the feed. They run on the same programming we are currently completing with WWTS. Once we complete WWTS, the others will be quite easy to add compared to the original application. It will be just a matter of adding ip#'s and passwords. Maybe a little different programming. If you're a book reading this and wanting to be on the feed, please contact me @ [email protected]. If you're using the softech programming, we should get you going rather quickly.
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mls:
Many more, including SKYBOOK soon thereafter.
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InstantOdds:
Skybook is now updating manually. I'm not sure how long they will do this. It's up to the player to let them know it's worth their time. We are currently talking with Skybooks tech support on automation. We will get that going asap. Unfortunately, there is no ETA for their automated feed because we're still deciding on the best way to set up protocol. When that's decided, I will have a solid ETA and be happy to pass along that info.
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AYCE:
Lou Diamonds's attempt as being the next Don Best...
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InstantOdds:
FTR, There is absolutely NO attempt to be the next Don Best. I take great pride in my originality. Lou Diamond's MO has always been the same "Changing Life for the Bettor". I commend Don Best for building a great product. I mean no ill will towards Dana and his company. I am going after a completely different market that he currently doesn't have, or seem to want. If I get his customers in the process, it wouldn't be my fault.

The differences between InstantOdds and Don Best:

*Don Best has a product that IS dependable.
*InstantOdds won't be considered dependable until it has at least 6 months of fast lines and NO downtime.
*Don Best charges $500 per month.
*InstantOdds is FREE and will always be FREE.
*Don Best, like everyone else, uses DBC/CSW handicapping data.
*InstantOdds has an original, and IMO, a more creative database. But I may be a little biased.
*Don Best caters to the bigger player only.
*InstantOdds caters to EVERY player, big and small.
*Don Best tells their clients WHO they can do business with.
*InstantOdds lets their clients make their own decisions.
*Don Best burdens the player to pay for his info.
*InstantOdds burdens the book to pay for the players info.
*Don Best in is bed with Cris, playing the player like a fiddle, making their daily middle.
*InstantOdds will be offering MiddleXpress. *An e-mail/beeper service the will alert you when a middle is available based on the parameters that you set.
*Sorry Dana, but even though this shortens your middle, you could have been doing this for your customers for years and still had successful middles.
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Ayce:
is just a joke.
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InstantOdds:
Laughter is the key to happiness. Ayce, I'm glad I've played an integral part of your happiness.
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Ayce:
Actually, he tried this about 3 to 4 months ago already and I remembered it was a total failure then and I don't see any difference will it be now.
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InstantOdds:
We released the manual version back in Feb. ANY book you see on the screen can very easily pop the numbers in manually while waiting for automation. It got quite cumbersome during the college hoops season. Now that the schedule is less daunting, some of the books will probably start updating manually when 2 things occur:

1) InstantOdds gets a half dozen automated lines. Which will happen fairly quickly.
2) When you, the player, calls your book to make a play and than mentions that you'd like to see them on InstantOdds.

If you let them know you're there, they'll be there....they know who we are.
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Ayce:
Free is not always good if it is just garbage.
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InstantOdds:
Agreed. Currently what we offer IS garbage compared to Don Best. But this is the start of an industry change. When Christmas rolls around and you're getting FREE live odds, whether it's from Don Best, Jim Heist, InstantOdds or Johhny DeScammer, there's only 1 place you'll need to send that Christmas card to.
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Ayce:
Don Best is Don Best, it always has been and it will still be in the near future.
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Aristotle, I don't know how Don Best can't be Don Best. If you mean Don Best is *The Best*...
Absolutely the best at $500 per month. And will ALWAYS be the best at $500.
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Gart:
Kudos to Lance from Skybook to not giving in
to Don Best monopolistic practices.
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InstantOdds:
Actually, with all due respect to Lance, 98% of the books I've talked to have said they'd never give in either. You need to remember, at $500 Don Best only attracts wise guys and bigger bettors. There's a MUCH larger audience waiting in the wings that these books NEED to reach. Not to mention, "odds are" a little more "squared".
=============================================fairf ax:
does anyone have more info on instant odds. it would be great if they could get all of the books they are planning on on one feed
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InstantOdds:
Every book you see on the screen has verbally agreed to put their feed on the screen. They are also CURRENTLY set up to provide a manual at any time. If you get in your books ear enough, they will do the manual process until we get them automated. Our program can display an unlimited amount of books.
=============================================Don Best
I feel it is necessary to respond to some of the comments about the price of our premium service. Many people don't realize the number of programs and systems necessary to provide real time information quickly and reliably. These programs have been written, modified and improved over many years at enormous cost.
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InstantOdds:
I completely agree that the programming must have been well in 6 figures initially. And probably at least 6 more figures to upgrade through the years. That's where 95% of the costs are.
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Don Best:
We also have a facility of over 8500 square feet containing hundreds of computers, back up power supplies, T1 lines, phone systems, and a staff of about 35. All these things are necessary to ensure reliability and speed at all times, and all these things are not cheap.
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InstantOdds:
My live odds staff consists of 2 programmers and there have been many days they've been sitting there twiddling their thumbs waiting for others to complete their work. Even though our backup system is not in place yet, the monthly expense is somewhere in the hundreds. JMO, but you may want to consider down sizing.
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Don Best:
There are sites that may try to duplicate what we do without the expense, but I guarantee that the system will not be as fast
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I'll take that as a direct shot...
Simply not true! Our line is displayed UNDER 1 second from the time the book gives it to us. Maybe you can give details on your *guarantee*. Gimme a week or so, I'm up for the challenge.
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Don Best:
and will have a lot of down time unless they spend the money to do it right.
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InstantOdds:
We WILL experience some down time in the first few weeks until we get the redundant system in place. It's not really a lot of work or a lot money to set up. We're just worried about getting lines up first. No since paying to have *nothing* redundant.

I appreciation of your patience, I will comp anyone who mentions this thread free tickets to The Scinta's at The Las Vegas Hilton. The Hilton is touting this show as the next Danny Gans. The comp is good until May 31st, so if you planning on coming to Vegas, or live in Vegas (including you Dana), e-mail me and I'll arrange to get you the tickets. I've yet to hear a bad word about the show. Best of luck to everyone.

Sincerely,
Lou Diamond Haeick http://www.instantodds.com
[email protected]

[freak]

Interesting..... thanks for the post MLS

[phaedrus]

What should happen is that Don Best should scrap the two-tiered system. Scrap Island Express, and instead lower the price of the premium service to 99 a month.

I guarantee you that this is a more feasible economic model for Don Best, heck i would even be willing to put my money where my mouth is and come up with the difference in lost revenues (if this is truly a money losing proposition) - in return i would want to be paid off if it becomes more profitable which i guarantee you it would.

Look basically what Don Best is doing is running a "two tiered" system based on what you can afford. they are saying you can afford to pay $500 a month so you are paying $500 a month to the big bettor, and they are saying to the little bettor that they can't afford it so go with IX.

There is no way that it "costs" Don Best more to run the premium service than it does the IX service, they are simply penalizing the IX customers with less features (ability to save casino order) crappy default font which is also not saved and the ultimate - delayed lines by 2 minutes.

Don Best has pretty much admitted such by stating they are thinking of moving the IX feed up to a 30 second delay.

Look i love Dana and Don Best to death have been a premium subscriber for the months of September till April for a number of years. Heck even when i disconnected the premium feed this year for my annual slowdown i kept my IX going for the simple reason that i liked keeping somewhat abreast of the lines during baseball season (which i never bet).

The only reason i am stating these things in a public forum is b/c i truly believe DON BEST would benefit by lowering the price of the premium service to 99 a month by increasing their subscribers 5 fold.

The cost to run IX and the Premium service is exactly the same, and if they lowered the price to 99 a month they would litterally swallow up sportstracker, sports signal and instant odds customers so fast they would need a case of pepto.

The only reason Don Best can get away with charging more money for there "live odds" than i pay for Level II nasdaq quotes is b/c they have a virtual monolopy in terms of comparative products. The only thing Don Best has going for it is the exclusivity of the sportsbooks, the ease of use of the progam (read sophistication) and the veracity of the odds.

Everything else (read injury alerts lineups) is either so unreliable (injury reports) or readily available elsewhere. They get the lineups from sportsticker as well as the injury reports, the matchups are from DBC etc, and other places for FREE on the net (yes including lineups), someone the other day laughed when the Don Best injury info on Shaq came out when NBC showed him in "civies" on the sideline, this scene has been repeated ad infinitum over the past 3 years.

There is no "inside" injury info available on Don Best that is not available elsewhere -that is the plain facts. This doesn't mean that Dana and his workers aren't watching the games and alerting their customers of the info the moment its published, it just means that the myth of "injury report" has been debunked via the use of sportsticker, dbc and television.

Just my 2 cents, Dana you have my email if you want to contact me and tell me to keep mind my own business (and i wouldn't hold it against you, for where else but the internet could you you have 20 or so strangers tell you how to run your business).

That being said,

[reno]

Good job, mls! Very informative. As always, the world of offshore sportsbetting is always in flux and never dull.

[InstantOdds.com]

Paedrus:
The cost to run IX and the Premium service is exactly the same, and if they lowered the price to 99 a month...
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InstantOdds.com
The players would have InstantOdds.com to thank for that.
It also looks as if IslandXpress in now going free...You're welcome.
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Phaedrus:
they would litterally swallow up sportstracker, sports signal and instant odds customers so fast they would need a case of pepto.
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InstantOdds.com
I truely believe that the good spirited people using a live odds service would feel a little loyalty to the company that SAVED them all those monthly fees, instead of the one who CHARGED them all those monthly fees. It's good Karma. Only time will tell.
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[AYCE]

Lou, what a low-life you are!

First of all, let me remind you, what is the reason for the last one and a half year, that every time when we type DIAMOND in here, the word got banned?

What is the reason that you had been "attacked" everywhere when you tried to build "your followings"?

Do you still remember when was the last time that you came back here with all those sh!tting posts like a 8 years old kid fighting with MTB?

Why would you "suddenly" become so smart and such so kind as want to "help" us all for FREE FOREVER?

I almost wanted to cry for a second, until I read this,

"When you call you books to make a play and tell them that you want to see their lines at Instanodds, they will probably start updating their lines manually."

What a great joke it was!

Lou, when you want to make some comparisons with Don Best, please don't forget this point, never.

Don Best has never been came in here like a hooker and begging us to ask the books to update their lines so we can get what we have paid for the service.

Thanks for the laugh, good luck with your venture.

See you in couple months when you will have your next new "invention".

The next Roxy?! Think about it.

[mls]

The instantodds.com idea is one which will revolutionize the offshore betting industry.

This is true whether or not Lou Diamond's attempt is the one that succeeds.

AYCE can't be from America. In this country we recognize the brains, nerve, and ingenuity of those who blaze new trails.

Lou Diamonds "brainstorm" already has shaken Don Best up to the point that Don Best says they will offer their $99/month Island Express for FREE starting next month!

As I said, the effects of instantodds.com idea have already been considerable and will shake up this industry.

I for one applaud Lou Diamond's efforts and ingenuity - as I would any inventor who "tries to build a better mousetrap."

As for AYCE ... lets just say I rarely understand what he is saying ...

[BigMoney]

mls, well said.

[Dot Mix]

mls:

Very, very well said, and good luck to Lou Diamond. It's nice to see initiative and creativity in all facets of business----especially when a service will be offered for free to the average recreational or "square" player who has no interest in paying for instant lines. Free online tote-boards for horseracing have been available for some time to the public where you can monitor real-time odds, mutal pools etc. from half-dozen tracks at once. That monitoring set up is better than you could ever find at the track or any simulcast outlet and it's there ---for free---at home!. That started off as a pay system but went free. Why? Because it dawned on someone that the "traffic" this offering drew would promote their other money making products and promote advertising sales.

Only time will tell to what extent Diamond's "instant lines" will have upon the industry, but whatever it is, it's already begun. Number one----there will be access to something we never had before----for free. It's certainly worth looking at (and EVERYONE WILL) out of curiosity and because the price is right (nothing). If it's what it's proposed to be then it can't miss attracting a huge and regular following if access is not hampered by heavy web traffic. Even if it proves not perfect, but adequate, people will still be ecstatic to have it for free. Concerned "line service" people are already taking notice, and a change in service offering has already been hinted at by the "major" line service right on this forum. .

If you can offer a good mousetrap for free it will attract people who would PREFER a better mousetrap, but aren't budgeted for or willing to pay for it.

I'm looking forward to it. If Diamond is telling no lies, delivers as he says he will, then I will concede to him credit for "marketing genius".

Scrooge McDot

[Squirming For Action]

The Feist Offshore Connection has provided "live lines" - you have to refresh the screen - for over a year now for free.

I don't think its done anything to revolutionize the industry

[JohnnyDeMarco]

I personally promise all bettorsworld viewers that the best is yet to come in this arena. I have seen a prototype of a live odds page that is coming this August. It kills anything out there right now. Scores, odds, trends, injuries, weather, everything and then some. Oh yeah, by the way it is 100% free to everyone. One more thing, the servers will be located offshore so that there will be no service interuptions.(feds)
This thing is a total java program that does not need refreshing. Coming soon to your computer!

[AussieVamp2]

a difference between a free auto-updating application market type application and a website though SFA, although both are useful

[This message has been edited by AussieVamp2 (edited 04-13-2000).]

[JohnnyDeMarco]

Maybe I didn't say it. The application I'm talking about is auto-update. It is the most awesome thing I've ever seen. This will revolutionize the entire line service industry. There are at least 30 different outs on there with room for about 75. Plus you click on an out and takes you right there
instantly. Plus every out on the screen (this is big) has an information button that will give all phone numbers local & 800, fax numbers, addresses,rules and who to ask for at each particular out. Something will probably come along better eventually but for now this is the best I've seen.

[phaedrus]

Johnny, i for one would be interested in getting involved with this outfit, Don Best rebuked my offer to swallow up any losses if they lowered there premium service to $99.

Get me your email or number and we can get in touch with eachother, i for one am extremely interested in offering some help with this program (even if it just means advice and my opinion on it).

h

[JohnnyDeMarco]

Phaedrus,
anytime
[email protected]