The end of an era: Is Scalping Gone Forever?

[sportshobby]

We've all heard about the social hierarchy of bettors - suckers at the top, wise guys, etc. on down to scalpers and so on. I think it's time to examine the hierarchy of bookmakers.

First there are those with balls enough to post their own numbers and move on action, such as Olympic, Belize, etc.

Next on the social totem pole are the ones that post the line service's openers and move on action (quite a few books in this category).

The next rung in the social ladder are the clone joints. They just put up lines "in the middle" and move on air, making sure that they never have the best line in any direction. These guys don't have to worry about wise guys, because they don't have any.

Then there is the lowest of all bookmaker life forms: books that move the lines on sucker action, but don't want anyone to take the other side. These guys truly want to ravage the poor suckers into laying inflated prices on everything they bet. They run off the scalpers and wise guys, so that the suckers will have to lay the worst price possible.



[This message has been edited by sportshobby (edited 07-31-2000).]

[reno]

Sportshobby, excellent presentation of the BM hierarchy. Reality has the audacity to think we're naive enough to believe his contention that he is true bookmaking philanthropist at heart, nobly saving the juicy numbers for his "regular" players, while boldly kicking out the wiseguys and scummy, poaching scalpers who threaten the entire sportsbetting marketplace. I mistakenly thought that I was a sportsbetting Guardian Angel, but the true sportsbetting Saint is obviously Reality. Pardon me, but I've got to stop now. I'm starting to get my keyboard wet from tears of love for a man intent on making the sportsbetting marketplace a better place for squares.

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sportshobby:
[B]We've all heard about the social hierarchy of bettors - suckers at the top, wise guys, etc. on down to scalpers and so on. I think it's time to examine the hierarchy of bookmakers.

First there are those with balls enough to post their own numbers and move on action, such as Olympic, Belize, etc.

SPIRO TALKS TO QUITE A FEW PEOPLE BEFORE HE PUTS OUT HIS OPENERS.

HE DOES NOT JUST PULL THEM OUT OF HIS HEAD.

I CAN'T SPEAK FOR BELIZE.

Next on the social totem pole are the ones that post the line service's openers and move on action (quite a few books in this category).

A ODDSMAKER MAKES THE LINE.

HIS JOB IS NOT TO FAVOR THE SIDE HE THINKS WILL WIN.

AN ODDSMAKERS JOB IS TO PUT UP AN ARBRITRARY NUMBER THAT THEORETICALLY WILL DRAW AN EQUAL AMOUNT OF ACTION ON BOTH SIDES

A BOOKMAKERS JOB IS TO EVALUATE HIS CLIENTS AND MANAGE THE LINE ACCORDINGLY.

IF IT'S A CLEARING HOUSE FOR WISEGUYS,I'M TAKING 6 TO 12 OF THE SHARPEST PLAYERS IN THE HOUSE AND LET THEM CRACK MY NUMBERS FOR HALF A BET 15 MINUTES BEFORE I OPEN FOR THE PUBLIC.

AFTER THAT,COME ONE, COME ALL!

IF IT'S A POST UP HOUSE,I'M GOING LET THE HOUSE PLAYERS LAY THE ORIGINAL NUMBERS THAT ORIGINATORS ARE LAYING IF THEY HAPPEN TO BE ON THE SAME GAME .

WHY?

THEY DESERVE A BREAK FOR ALL THE OTHER WORK THEY PLAY THAT PAYS THE BILLS.

I'M NOT GIVING A WISEGUY THAT SAME BREAK IN A POST UP HOUSE BECAUSE ALL I'M GETTING FROM HIM IS THE ORIGINAL PLAY IF I HAVE THE NUMBER HE IS LOOKING FOR.

THIS TYPE PLAYER PROVIDES ABSOLUTELY NO WORK TO EARN WITH IN THE POST UP HOUSE.

IN A CLEARING HOUSE IF YOU MOVE FAR ENOUGH YOU CAN GET A BUY BACK BUT THEN YOU ARE OPENED UP TO THE EXPOSURE OF GAPS IN THE LINE MOVEMENT.

The next rung in the social ladder are the clone joints. They just put up lines "in the middle" and move on air, making sure that they never have the best line in any direction. These guys don't have to worry about wise guys, because they don't have any.

THAT IS PRECISELY WHY THEY OPEN UP IN THE MIDDLE.

TO DISCOURAGE THE WISEGUY AND SCALPER BUSINESS THEY DONNOT WANT.

THIS IS A BUSINESS DECISION.

IT IS AS CONSCIOUS A BUSINESS DECISION AS THE CLEARING HOUSES MAKE WHEN THEY SAY COME ONE COME ALL.

THESE ARE THE RULES BOTH HOUSES MUST ABIDE BY:

A.POST A LINE AND HONOR THE LINE YOU POST.

B.ACCEPT A BET AND HONOR THE BET YOU ACCEPT.

C.PAY ON DEMAND.

THESE ARE THE A,B,C,'S THAT SHOULD BE THE MOST IMPORTANT TO THE PLAYER.

EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST MARKETING AND WINDOW DRESSING.

REALITY

[REALITY]

Originally posted by reno:
Sportshobby, excellent presentation of the BM hierarchy. Reality has the audacity to think we're naive enough to believe his contention that he is true bookmaking philanthropist at heart, nobly saving the juicy numbers for his "regular" players, while boldly kicking out the wiseguys and scummy, poaching scalpers who threaten the entire sportsbetting marketplace. I mistakenly thought that I was a sportsbetting Guardian Angel, but the true sportsbetting Saint is obviously Reality. Pardon me, but I've got to stop now. I'm starting to get my keyboard wet from tears of love for a man intent on making the sportsbetting marketplace a better place for squares.

MR.GUARDIAN ANGEL,

I'M A BOOKMAKER AT HEART AND IN A POST UP SHOP I WILL TAKE HALF OF THE HOUSE HOLD ON A GAME AT THE NUMBER THE GAME IS BEING BET AT BEFORE I MOVE THE LINE.

IN OTHER WORDS IF THE HOUSE HOLD ON A GAME IS A $100 A GAME, I MOVE IT A $100.

EVEN WHEN I KNOW WHAT THE SIDE IS IN A POST UP SHOP WHERE THE HOUSE HOLD IS A $1OO I WONT MOVE UNTIL I HAVE A $50 BET.

WHY?

BECAUSE OF MY BIG HEART?

I AM A BIG HEARTED GUY BUT THE REASON IS SOMETIMES IT'S JUST A SET UP PLAY AND I ALWAYS LIKE TO BE IN STRIKING DISTANCE IF THEY COME STORMING BACK ON THE OTHER SIDE.

IN A CLEARING HOUSE I'LL BE TAKING LIMIT BETS ALL THE WAY UP AND PRAYING THAT IT'S A PHONEY SIDE BECAUSE I'LL BE WRITING LIMIT BETS ALL THE WAY BACK DOWN.

THEN I'LL BE WITH MY FELLOW BROTHERS OF THE BOOK,CLICKING THE CHANGER WITH ONE HAND TRYING TO GET THE SCORES AND SHAKING MY MARTINI SHAKER WITH THE OTHER AS I TRY TO DODGE THOSE NUMBERS THAT DO LAND AND BITE YOU IN THE ASS.

REALITY

[scott]

bbuster...I said bookmaking is simple as opposed to easy. Oddsmakers & bookmakers are two different animals. Both can do their own thing very well without knowing the others craft. Some of the biggest, and I mean biggest, BM's dont know sports, dont watch sports and have no desire to do either. They have b**** of steel, cold steel. Some oddsmakers, but not all, make terrible BM's because they think they are to sharp for their players. They handicapped themselves wrong. Some very good BM's have a feel for the line. They know the public and what they are going to do. Thats different than being able to spout off stats and more stats. Imo that can get in the way sometimes...Scotty

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by reno:


For example, Reality considers his self-imposed ignorance regarding sports teams to be a virtue. I consider it to be a vice. Case in point: today's Seattle/San Diego baseball game. Because I intuited the appropriate betting line this morning to be
-140, I layed 5 dimes this morning at -120 before the line moved. Now, as I write this, the line is as high as Seattle -137. If I were a BM, in order to achieve a semblance of balance action, I would have opened Seattle at -132. Because a BM like Reality is incapable of opinionating his numbers, he'd have undoubtedly ended up with far more action on Seattle than on San Diego. Consequently, unlike yours truly, he wouldn't come close to achieving the bookmaking ideal of balanced action.

RENO,

PLEASE REFER TO SCOTT'S POST OF 1:15 P.M. FOR A LITTLE BOOKMAKING 101.

WHEN I SAID THIS IT DIDN'T MEAN ANYTHING.

NOW THAT SCOTT HAS SAID IT WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW.

PROBABLY NOTHING AS YOU DON'T REPLY TO POSTS YOU KNOW YOU CAN'T DEFEND.

HAVE A NICE EVENING...

REALITY

[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 08-01-2000).]

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scott:
[B]bbuster...I said bookmaking is simple as opposed to easy. Oddsmakers & bookmakers are two different animals. Both can do their own thing very well without knowing the others craft. Some of the biggest, and I mean biggest, BM's dont know sports, dont watch sports and have no desire to do either. They have b**** of steel, cold steel. Some oddsmakers, but not all, make terrible BM's because they think they are to sharp for their players. They handicapped themselves wrong. Some very good BM's have a feel for the line. They know the public and what they are going to do. Thats different than being able to spout off stats and more stats. Imo that can get in the way sometimes...Scotty

ATTENTION RENO:

BOOKMAKING 101 IS NOW IN SESSION COURTESY OF SCOTTY.

ATTENDANCE IS MANDATORY FOR WANNABE B.M.'S.

REALITY

[reno]

REALITY, I am in 100% agreement with everything Scott has stated regarding bookmaking. Scott eschews your convoluted bookmaking philosophy that cagegorizes and sub-categorizes every player. Instead, he simply hangs a number and doesn't care who takes it. He believes in a free and open marketplace that doesn't discriminate. With your bookmaking philosophy, I wouldn't be surprised if one day the A.C.L.U. comes knocking on your door.

[REALITY]

Originally posted by reno:
REALITY, I am in 100% agreement with everything Scott has stated regarding bookmaking. Scott eschews your convoluted bookmaking philosophy that cagegorizes and sub-categorizes every player. Instead, he simply hangs a number and doesn't care who takes it. He believes in a free and open marketplace that doesn't discriminate. With your bookmaking philosophy, I wouldn't be surprised if one day the A.C.L.U. comes knocking on your door.

RENO,

THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO REFUSE TO SEE.

AS USUAL THE GREAT SPIN MASTER RENO DOSEN'T EVEN GIVE YOU THE COURTESY OF ADDRESSING THE POST INSTEAD HE PUTS WORDS IN SCOTTY'S MOUTH ABOUT SOME OTHER ISSUE INSTEAD OF WHAT IS BEING ADDRESSED HERE.

HAVE YOU NO SHAME OR NO PRIDE IN WHAT YOU PROFESS TO BE.

IT IS BETTER WHEN YOU JUST IGNORE THE POSTS YOU CAN'T DEFEND.

TRYING TO PUT SPIN ON THEM JUST SHOWS YOUR LACK OF CLASS AND INTEGRITY.

KEEP TAKING THE FIFTH WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.

AT LEAST THEN YOU WON'T BE FOUND GUILTY OF IMPERSONATING SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

OUR BUSINESS IS OFFICIALLY CONCLUDED.

REALITY

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by REALITY:
[B] MR.GUARDIAN ANGEL,

I'M A BOOKMAKER AT HEART AND IN A POST UP SHOP I WILL TAKE HALF OF THE HOUSE HOLD ON A GAME AT THE NUMBER THE GAME IS BEING BET AT BEFORE I MOVE THE LINE.

IN OTHER WORDS IF THE HOUSE HOLD ON A GAME IS A $100 A GAME, I MOVE IT A $100.

EVEN WHEN I KNOW WHAT THE SIDE IS IN A POST UP SHOP WHERE THE HOUSE HOLD IS A $1OO I WONT MOVE UNTIL I HAVE A $50 BET.

WHY?

BECAUSE OF MY BIG HEART?

I AM A BIG HEARTED GUY BUT THE REASON IS SOMETIMES IT'S JUST A SET UP PLAY AND I ALWAYS LIKE TO BE IN STRIKING DISTANCE IF THEY COME STORMING BACK ON THE OTHER SIDE.

IN A CLEARING HOUSE I'LL BE TAKING LIMIT BETS ALL THE WAY UP AND PRAYING THAT IT'S A PHONEY SIDE BECAUSE I'LL BE WRITING LIMIT BETS ALL THE WAY BACK DOWN.

THEN I'LL BE WITH MY FELLOW BROTHERS OF THE BOOK,CLICKING THE CHANGER WITH ONE HAND TRYING TO GET THE SCORES AND SHAKING MY MARTINI SHAKER WITH THE OTHER AS I TRY TO DODGE THOSE NUMBERS THAT DO LAND AND BITE YOU IN THE ASS.

RENO,

ANOTHER NO MAS FOR THE GREAT SPIN MASTER RENO....

IS RENO SHORT FOR NO REsponse?

[Railbird]

It was not an analogy.It was a question.

[DoggieStyle]

Reading the last 20 posts there are some good points and some lousy ones.

Intheknow, Reality, Ronbets, TheDevil and all the others who don't understand what were are talking about need to go back into the closet.

Read this!

Nobody has said this SISSY brand of bookmaking isn't better for people who CAN'T BOOK. But that's the whole point. It's for people who are not BOOKIES. PEOPLE who just want to SCAVENGE the Losing players for all they can get. PERIOD! This has nothing to do with your retarded claims of glory.

Reality you say scalpers and middlers are SCAVENGERS? Then what does that make YOU if you move off of the same exact MOVE the scalpers and middlers and SERIOUS PLAYERS want and don't give your customers the chance to play this game?

WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU?

YOU ARE WORSE THAN THAT SCAVENGER PLAYER! YOU PRETEND TO TAKE BETS, BUT ONLY WILL TAKE THEM IF YOU CAN AVOID THE SO-CALLED WISEGUY PLAYS. YOU WON'T AND CAN'T DEFEND THE ACTIONS OF ANY BOOK WHO OPERATES THIS WAY!

You are SCAVENGING off of the REAL BOOKIES who are TAKING ALL BETS. You know what books to watch don't you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is That the skill your talking about!!!

A FAKE BOOK that won't let players play if they don't play bad numbers is SCAVENGING off the REAL BOOKIES AND WISEGUYS through Don Best!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!

Even if I did this SISSY BOOKING I would never tell anyone about. That's why I think all you guys are frauds! Why would you admit to it?

And Reality you still have never said anything with substance. Nobody cares about your little dreams of days gone by. Stop telling us how good you are and write something that will SHOW US you have a brain.

You are really boring........

[DoggieStyle]

Reality,

Do you remember Doc from Wisconsin.

The Tout......

You say touts don't move numbers.

Touts could never do the damage of an originator? Are you kidding me?

If the number is bad, IT'S BAD FOR EVERY BODY WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEIR DOING!

Did that upset you when his picks moved the line 7 or 8 points!!!!!!!

A complete Moron can move these numbers with all the Chicken s**t books who follow Don Best's every move.

Any WINNER could some day move the lines. That's all it takes if you didn't know. You guys are saying it's an HONORABLE business pratice to through them out if it happens!

RIGHT?

I'm glad I can read these great words of wisdom from all the PEOPLE who accept this New Age bookie talk.

Either you are a BOOKIE or your NOT.

A MONKEY CAN WATCH DON BEST.......

[REALITY]

Originally posted by Railbird:
It was not an analogy.It was a question.

EXCUSE ME!

I WAS PARTNERS IN A GREAT PIZZA PARLOR AND REFILLS ON FOUNTAIN DRINKS WERE FREE...




[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 08-01-2000).]

[REALITY]

DOGGIE,

I'M GLAD YOUR BACK IN FORM.

I SUGGEST YOU REREAD THE LAST 20 OR SO POSTS.

I LET PLAYERS IN A POST UP HOUSE PLAY AT THE ORIGINAL NUMBER LONG AFTER IT WAS GONE.

RE-READ THE POSTS.

IN REGARDS TO DOC FROM WISCONSIN,I KNOW WHO HE IS.

ONCE A YEAR HE RELEASED DOC'S LOCK OF THE YEAR AND IT WAS ALWAYS IN THE BIG TEN.

THAT WAS THE ONLY GAME HE MOVED LIKE THAT AND IT WAS ALWAYS A GOOD GAME.

I REMEMBER BECAUSE I GOT IT BEFORE IT WAS IN THE STREET AND I WAS OUT BETTING IT MYSELF.

IT HAS SOME INCREDIBLE WIN % OVER THE LAST 25 OR 30 YEARS.

IF I TAKE A JOB THAT BEEN OFFERED TO ME NEXT SEASON AT ONE OF THE LARGER CLEARING HOUSES YOU'LL GET ENGRAVED INVITATION NUMBER TWO,YOUR PAL RENO ALREADY HAS THE FIRST INVITE ON RESERVE.

SAVE SOME OF YOUR MONEY FOR THE KNOW-NOTHING BOOKMAKER KNOWN AS REALITY.

ALL DONATIONS ACCEPTED.

HAVE A NICE SEASON FELLAS AND LOOK FOR YOUR INVITATIONS JUST ABOUT THIS TIME NEXT YEAR...

YOUR FRIEND ALWAYS,

REALITY