The end of an era: Is Scalping Gone Forever?

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by REALITY:
[B]DOGGIE,

IF IT'S AS EASY AS YOU SAY WHY NOT JUST OPEN UP.

YOU CLAIM TO KNOW EVERYBODY I KNOW SO GETTING THE CUSTOMERS IS NO PROBLEM.

YOU SAY ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS RUN THE BIGGEST OFFICE IN THE WORLD, SO WHAT'S STOPPING YOU?

ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY...

DIVIDE YOUR BANKROLL BY A 100 AND OPEN UP WITH 100/TH OF YOUR BANKROLL AS YOUR GAME LIMIT.

YOU CLAIMED TO BE THE ONLY B.M.WHO NEVER LOST IN YOUR SHOP ON THE ISLAND SO IN NO TIME FLAT WITH NO EXTENDED PERIODS OF LOSING YOU SHOULD BE THE BIGGEST IN NO TIME.

STOP CRYING AND START TRYING!

SHOW US JUST HOW SHARP DOGGIE STYLE IS.

OR IS YOUR BARK LOUDER THAN YOUR BITE?

REALITY


DOGGIE,

YOU NEVER ADDRESSED THIS POST.

I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR RESPONSE HERE....

REALITY

[DoggieStyle]

Reality,

I would never attempt to enter this 3 ring circus of off-shore books. The ones who advertise the most are the best. It's pretty basic. Has NOTHING to do with how good of a book you are. Your competing against these books who will sacrifice juice and give bonuses to get customers. Who started these bonuses anyway? Another Great Idea.

No I didn't like what I saw with these off-shore Sports Books. And I'm not like you as you just LOVE all the people you think are somebody in the industry.

Plus I'm a loser in one aspect. I will never own my own business. This is a choice I made a long time ago. I have walked away from alot of things because I don't want to be responsable for all the problems owning a business will bring. I enjoy my freedom.

And I'm done letting you throw stones at me. You just write NOTHING, and then you do it AGAIN, and then you come right back with the same old NOTHING, and we wait for the first sign of intelligence from you and then more NOTHING.

I'm glad you are enjoying yourself. I'm getting tired of your needing to tell me who you know, And your need to prove to everybody you know something. Just give your opinions or get LOST......

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DoggieStyle:
[B] Reality,

I would never attempt to enter this 3 ring circus of off-shore books. The ones who advertise the most are the best. It's pretty basic. Has NOTHING to do with how good of a book you are. Your competing against these books who will sacrifice juice and give bonuses to get customers. Who started these bonuses anyway? Another Great Idea.

BONUSES?

AGREE 100%.

No I didn't like what I saw with these off-shore Sports Books. And I'm not like you as you just LOVE all the people you think are somebody in the industry.

I LOVE PEOPLE WORTHY OF MY LOVE.

NASA'S THE SECOND BIGGEST.

I'M SURE YOU HAVE READ MANY OF MY POSTS IN REGARDS TO THE B.W./NASA FIASCO.

I KNOW THIS GENTLEMAN TOO,BUT B.W. HAS TO GET PAID TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE INDUSTRY.

Plus I'm a loser in one aspect. I will never own my own business. This is a choice I made a long time ago. I have walked away from alot of things because I don't want to be responsable for all the problems owning a business will bring. I enjoy my freedom.

O.K.

YOU DON'T WANT TO BACK THAT GREAT OPINION WITH YOUR OWN MONEY.

I UNDERSTAND.

And I'm done letting you throw stones at me. You just write NOTHING, and then you do it AGAIN, and then you come right back with the same old NOTHING, and we wait for the first sign of intelligence from you and then more NOTHING.

YOU ADDRESSED YOUR POSTS TO ME AND I REPLIED.

TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR LAST 20 POSTS.

WHO IS SAYING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER?

YOUR ASKING ME THE SAME QUESTIONS AND MAKING THE SAME REMARKS, ACCORDINGLY MY ANSWERS ARE REPEATEDLY THE SAME.

I'm glad you are enjoying yourself. I'm getting tired of your needing to tell me who you know, And your need to prove to everybody you know something. Just give your opinions or get LOST......

DOGGIE,

I GIVE MY OPINIONS.

I TOLD YOU ONCE,WITH A PHONE CALL YOU CAN FIND ME.

I WAS EVEN STUPID ENOUGH TO E-MAIL YOU AN APOLOGY FOR AN IN THE BLIND REMARK.

YOU AREN'T EVEN CLASSY TO RESPECT ME FOR THAT.

I NOW OWE YOU NOTHING.

E-MAIL ME OR VISIT ME IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING ON YOUR MIND.

THIS CONCLUDES OUR BUSINESS.

REALITY

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by REALITY:
[B] SCOTTY,
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT AN OFF-SHORE BOOK TODAY HAS TO MAKE A DECISION.

WITH THE EXTREMELY HIGH COST OF DOING BUSINESS OFF-SHORE,AND THE HIGH COST OF MARKETING POST UP PLAYERS,HE MUST DECIDE TO KEEP HIS BUSINESS SQUARE AND NOT ALLOW NOT ONLY HIMSELF BUT HIS CUSTOMERS TO BE POACHED BY WISEGUY ACTION OR HE MUST DECIDE I'M GOING TO WRITE IT ALL.

IN YOUR ANALYSIS OF WHAT YOU DID IN THE STARDUST YOU HAD NO CHOICE TO DO IT ANY OTHER WAY.

TO YOU THE SCALPERS, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY THE MIDDLERS ARE THE REASON YOU WERE ABLE TO SUSTAIN SO MANY CONSECUTIVE WINNING MONTHS.

THE PHILOSOPHY AND STRATEGY YOU USED IS THE BLUEPRINT FOR ANY LARGE CLEARING HOUSE SUCH AS OLYMPIC,GRANDE,AND C.R.I.S.

BEFORE THERE WAS A C.R.I.S.THERE WAS THE OFFICE THAT WAS THE CLEARING HOUSE FOR EVERY WISEGUY IN THE COUNTRY.

THERE WASN'T A RECREATIONAL PLAYER IN THE HOUSE.

IT IS HERE WHERE I LEARNED THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF THE BUSINESS.

IF I HAVE ABSORBED THE HIGH COST OF MARKETING OFF-SHORE PLAYERS I WILL NOT HAVE AN ORIGINATOR OR MOVER IN THE HOUSE.

WHY?

THEY ONLY PLAY ME WHEN THEY CAN FILL THEIR ORDERS.

WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO DEAL AN INFLATED NUMBER TO MY REGULAR PLAYER WHO GIVES ME ALL HIS BUSINESS?

SO WHEN NUMBERS LAND THE WISGUYS GET PAID AND THE EVERYDAY PLAYER WHOSE WORK PAYS THE BILLS EITHER PUSHES OR LOSES?

THAT IS JUST A BAD BUSINESS DECISION.

IN REGARDS TO SCALPERS,THE SAME RULE APPLIES.

I'M NOT GOING TO LET A PRO WHO DOES NOTHING BUT SCALP MY NUMBER PLAY ME.

WHY?

BECAUSE HE RISKS NOTHING AND JUST CREATES ADDITIONAL EXPENSE TO SERVICE HIS WORK.

MORE IMPORTANTLY,HE WILL MOST LIKELY GET TO THE NUMBER FASTER THAN MY EVERYDAY PLAYER WHO I WANT TO SEE SCALP THE NUMBER,THUS ELIMINATING THE REGULAR PLAYER FROM COMPLETING THE SCALP.

I WANT MY EVERYDAY PLAYER TO SCALP ME LIKE SPRINGSTEEN TICKETS AT THE GARDEN BECAUSE HE DESERVES THIS CONSIDERATION.

THAT IS MY WAY OFF SAYING THANK YOU FOR YOUR BUSINESS.

WHEN I ANALYZE CUSTOMER BASES I HAVE SEEN JUST 10 TO 20 PLAYERS WHO ARE ORIGINATORS , MOVERS ,OR SCALPERS TAKE ANYWHERE FROM 20 TO 40% OFF THE BOTTOM LINE ANNUALLY.

AND I'M SPEAKING ABOUT IN HOUSES WHERE THERE ARE IN EXCESS OF 5,000 ACTIVE PLAYERS.

WHY WOULD ANY BUSINESS MAN LET ALONE BOOKMAKER ALLOW HIMSELF TO BE USED LIKE THIS?

ALL THIS POSTURING BY SCALPERS AND WANNABE BOOKMAKERS IS JUST PLAIN INSULTING NOT JUST TO THE BUSINESS OF BOOKMAKING BUT TO THE BUSINESS OF BUSINESS ITSELF.

IN A HOUSE LIKE C.R.I.S.,GRANDE AND OLYMPIC IT IS IMPERATIVE TO WRITE IT ALL IN THE HOPES OF OVERCOMING DECISIONS,THE EXPOSURE OF LINE MOVEMENT DUE TO POSTING LINES FIRST,AND THE WISEGUY ACTION WHICH YOU KNOW IS EXTREMELY TOUGH TO BEAT.

IT IS THIS CONSCIENCE DECISION THAT MAKES THESE PLACES THE CLEARING HOUSES THEY ARE.

JUST BECAUSE IT IS DONE THERE DOSEN'T MEAN IT IS THE CORRECT PHILOSOPHY FOR EVERYONE.

QUITE THE CONTRARY.

WHEN IN ROME DO AS THE ROMANS DO.

IF YOU HAVE A HOUSE FULL OF WISEGUYS IT IS IMPERATIVE TO WRITE AS MUCH ACTION AS YOU CAN TO GIVE YOURSELF A CHANCE TO WIN.

IF YOU HAVE A HOUSE FULL OF POST UP PLAYERS IT IS AN ABSOLUTELY BAD DECISION TO LET ORIGINATORS,MOVERS,OR PEOPLE WHO JUST PLAY YOU WHEN THEY CAN SCALP YOU TO RAPE YOUR BOTTOM LINE.

REALITY

[REALITY]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by REALITY:
[B]BUCKY,
I TOOK A BIG BET IN ONE OF THE MAJOR OFF-SHORE BOOKS.

WISEGUYS WERE NOT WELCOMED.

LET'S UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TERM WISEGUY MEANS TO ME.

A WISEGUY IS AN ORIGINATOR OR MOVER FOR AN ORIGINATOR WHO ONLY PLAYS YOU WHEN HE CAN BEAT THE SCREEN.

I IDENTIFIED THEM AS SUCH,TIPPED MY HAT TO THEM AND GAVE THEM A FREE PAYOUT.

THEY ALWAYS GOT PAID,I JUST WARNED THEM THE SECOND TIME I CAUGHT THEM I'D HOLD UP THEIR PAYOUT A MONTH AND ADD A MONTH EACH SUBSEQUENT TIME THEY GOT CAUGHT.

I NEVER HELD UP ANYONES PAYOUT FOR MORE THAN A MONTH.

I KNOW MOST OF THEM BECAUSE I USED TO MOVE FOR MANY OF THEM.

I HAVE BEEN KICKED OUT OF SO MANY PLACES MY ASS STILL HURTS.

THE JOB OF A WISEGUY IS TO INFILTRATE WEAK BOOKS.

THAT IS THEIR JOB AND I RESPECT IT.

THE JOB OF A SITTING BM IS TO IDENTIFY THEM AND DEAL WITH THEM ACCORDING TO THE PHILOSOPHY OF THE SHOP.

IF I'M SITTING IN A SHOP WHERE THE OWNER TELLS ME NO WISEGUY ACTION.

THERE WILL BE NO WISEGUY ACTION!

IF THE OWNER SAYS WRITE IT ALL.

I WILL WRITE IT ALL!

I DO BOTH JOBS WELL,AND IF THE TRUTH BE KNOWN IT IS EASIER JOB TO JUST WRITE IT ALL BECAUSE I DON'T CONSTANTLY HAVE TO BE REVIEWING ACCOUNTS TO SEE WHO IS BEATING THE MOVE IN.

REALITY

[REALITY]

Originally posted by Jeff:
I agree with Chillin.....

Great explanation of two very different approaches. This is by far the best explanation ever given on this topic.

As I've mentioned before, one of the most interesting things to me, in talking with different shops, is hearing their approach.

It's either one od the other, with the "kick out wiseguy" approach being the approach the majority use.

While I don't like that approach from a players standpoint, I do understand it and can't say I wouldn't do that myself if I ran a shop.

[REALITY]

Originally posted by REALITY:
BUCKY,
WHEREVER I SAT IN THE BOX,CUSTOMER SERVICE WAS ADVISED TO SEND ANY PLAYER POSTING OVER $5,000 TO ME BEFORE AN ACCOUNT WAS OPENED.

I SPOKE WITH THE PROSPECTIVE PLAYER AND ADVISED HIM ACCORDINGLY OF THE HOUSE POLICY.

IF SOME PLAYER SLIPPED THROUGH THE CRACKS I WOULD TELL HIM I TIP MY HAT TO YOU SIR PLEASE ACCEPT A FREE PAYOUT COURTESY OF ME VIA FED-EX.

THERE IS NO HARD FEELINGS HERE.

THE PLAYER IS DOING HIS JOB.

THE BM IS DOING HIS JOB.

LET ME SEE IF MY HUMOR IS ACCEPTED ANY BETTER HERE TODAY.

TO QUOTE A FAMOUS LINE FROM THE GODFATHER.

IT'S BUSINESS,

JUST BUSINESS,NOTHING PERSONAL...

REALITY

[REALITY]

Originally posted by REALITY:
SPORTSHOBBY,
I DONNOT BOOT OUT WINNERS.

MY DEFINITION OF A WISEGUY IS JUST THAT A WISEGUY.

IF YOU ONLY PLAY ME THE GAMES THAT 30-60 SECONDS AFTER YOU PLAY ME GO BLACK,YOU ARE EITHER THE ORIGINATOR OR A MOVER FOR THE ORIGINATOR AND AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED YOU AND YOU ALONE ARE THE ONLY TYPE PLAYER I REFER TO AS A WISEGUY.

THIS IS THE ONLY TYPE OF PLAYER AND A PLAYER WHO ONLY SCALPS BASEBALL WITH ME WHO I WILL ASK TO LEAVE IN A POST UP SHOP.

IF I AM IN A SHOP WHERE THE PRINCIPALS SAY NO WISEGUY ACTION.

THERE WILL BE NO WISEGUY ACTION.

IF I AM IN A SHOP WHERE THEY SAY WRITE IT ALL.

I'LL WRITE IT ALL.

THE LAST SHOP I WORKED IN THERE WAS A PLAYER WHO PLAYED ME LIKE A PIANO AND BEAT ME LIKE A DRUM WITH ALL OFF GAMES.

MANY TIMES I NEEDED THE SAME SIDE AS HIM.

I JUST KEPT TIPPING MY HAT AND PAYING HIM,
I WAS IN THE MIDST OF A PHENOMENAL SEASON.

MY POSITION REGARDING SCALPERS IS POSTED ABOVE.

REALITY

[REALITY]

[quote]Originally posted by REALITY:

Originally posted by sportshobby:


A true bookmaker, with all his talents, is only required for booking all action (especially sharp) and for inserting opinion into a line.]

SPORTSHOBBY,
ONCE YOU PUT THE WORD OPINION AND BOOKMAKING IN THE SAME SENTENCE,YOU ARE NO LONGER BOOKMAKING.

YOU ARE GAMBLING WITH AN EDGE.

IT IS THE JOB OF ODDSMAKERS TO FURNISH BOOKMAKERS WITH OPENING NUMBERS.

IT IS THE BOOKMAKERS JOB TO REVIEW THOSE NUMBERS AND POST THE STRONGEST LINE HE CAN.

ONCE POSTED IT IS THE B.M.'S JOB TO MANAGE THE LINE IN RELATION TO HOW HE IS BET.

IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM IS IT THE BOOKMAKERS JOB TO ATTEMPT TO OUTGUESS THE TALENT.

THAT IS A FORMULA FOR BANKRUPTCY.

REALITY

[REALITY]

[quote]Originally posted by REALITY:
[b]

Originally posted by DoggieStyle:
Reality,

Why do you keep saying "I admired somebody down on the island". You don't have any idea what your talking about. These PEOPLE down on the island destroyed a great office. All of them! Do you think I admired them? I'm not going to curse at you. I just wish you would stop making stupid comments like you know me or something. All you are doing is guessing. Get some facts.

GUESSING NOTHING.

I KNOW ALL THE PRINCIPALS.

THEY WRECKED A GREAT OFFICE?

IT WAS THEIR CUSTOMERS AND THEIR BUSINESS.

All I wanted to do was run the Biggest book in the world. Period! In Margarita I thought I had the chance and I was close,

AND THEN I WOKE UP!

HOW WHERE YOU CLOSE?

THEY WERE GOING TO PUT UP ALL THE MONEY FOR YOU TO BOOK THOSE TYPE PLAYERS WITH YOUR EGO AND OPINION?

OH YEAH!

I COULD JUST SEE D.M.,PUZZLE AND S.K. SAYING YOU POST WHATEVER LINE YOU COME UP WITH.

WE HAVE ALL THE CONFIDENCE IN THE WORLD THAT YOU CAN BEAT THESE TYPE PLAYERS WITH YOUR OUTSTANDING OPINION.

THOSE PLAYERS WERE TOUGHER THAN A $5.00 STEAK AT SIZZLERS AND YOU WERE JUST GONNA BEAT THEM LIKE A DRUM.

HAVE LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SUFFERING FROM THIS DILLUSION?

But SELFSERVING MORONS got in the way. Like I said if you knew what you were talking about you would know the story about that office, But you know nothing about it!

BELIEVE ME,I KNOW MORE THAN YOU THINK...

I was a HUGE reason the office stayed open after the other guy got us killed. It wasn't all his fault though as all the T.V. games in a 4 week period landed. But the bottom line was I WON, AND NOBODY ELSE COULD.

WELL THEN,I'M SURE YOUR OUTSTANDING RECORD OF ACCOMPLISHMENT IS WELL KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY AND YOU HAVE BEEN BOMBARDED WITH OFFERS US KNOW NOTHING B.M.'S CAN ONLY DREAM OF...

I would not work with this person who ended up being the BOSS/OWNER. I will not work for people I don't like. I walked away happy. It was not my loss. Not at all.

I'M HAPPY THAT YOU ARE IN SUCH SOUND FISCAL SHAPE THAT YOU COULD TURN YOUR BACK ON THE MANY LUCRATIVE OFFERS THAT CAME YOUR WAY JUST BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T PERSONALLY CARE FOR THE MAN SIGNING YOUR PAY CHECK...

I do what I want. If I book again it's because I want to do it. I love the challenge of REAL BOOKMAKING.

ME TOO.

Taking bets from "SUCKERS ONLY" is wrong. We just want you to admit it! You can't claim to be a Bookmaker if you are avoiding bets. I couldn't let your thinking enter my mind. And I would never tell anyone if I did.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME AND YOU.

IF MY EMPLOYER TELLS ME NO WISEGUYS.

THERE WILL BE NO WISEGUYS!

IF MY EMPLOYER SAYS WRITE IT ALL.

I'LL WRITE IT ALL!

I DO BOTH JOBS EQUALLY WELL.

I'M NOT FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT LIKE YOU SO I CAN'T TELL MY EMPLOYER IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!

I ANSWER ACCORDINGLY:

THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY SIR,I WILL FOLLOW YOUR PHILOSOPHY TO THE LETTER BECAUSE AFTER ALL IT IS YOUR MONEY THAT YOUR ARE TRUSTING ME WITH.

I'M SURE AT THE END OF THE YEAR YOU WILL BE PLEASED WITH THE RESULTS...

WELL NOBODY'S ASKED FOR A REFUND,SO I MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT...

REALITY

[REALITY]

Originally posted by REALITY:
RENO,
THIS WOULD JUST MAKE THE GAME DEAD.

I KNOW YOUR FRIEND AT WWTS DOES IT WITH NBA TOTALS.

SKYBOOK TAKES A LITTLE SHOT WITH THIS IN FOOTBALL.

THERE ARE CERTAIN VEGAS BOOKS THAT DO THIS WITH NBA TOTALS.

THE ONLY PLACE IN THE WORLD YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS IS A CLEARING HOUSE LIKE C.R.I.S.OR OLYMPIC.

AND THEY DON'T LIKE TO DO IT EITHER BECAUSE THEY CONTEND IT KILLS THE ACTION ON THE GAME.

C.R.I.S.WON'T EVEN MAKE A LINE 2.5-1.15 WHEN THEY GO ON AND OFF A THREE,AND THE SCREEN IS PAINTED 3.

IF IT MAKES THE GAME DEAD IN A PLACE LIKE THIS,IT MAKES A GAME DEAD AND BURIED IN A POST UP SHOP.

RECREATIONAL PLAYERS JUST CAN'T OR REFUSE TO GRASP THE CONCEPT AND FEEL THEY ARE BEING CHEATED.

I AM QUITE FLEXIBLE WHEN I'M SITTING BUT I DO HAVE ONE RULE ABOUT LINE MOVEMENT.

IN THE N.F.L. ONLY I'M NOT MOVING OFF THREE.

OFF THREE.

TWO YEARS AGO,I RAN A BIG POST UP SHOP.

I STARTED TACKING MONEY ON THE THREE.

THE NEXT DAY,AFTER HUNDREDS AND I DO MEAN HUNDREDS OF COMPLAINTS FROM POST UP PLAYERS,WHO CLAIMED I WAS ROBBING THEM, THE COMPANY TOLD ME IN THE FUTURE TO MOVE OFF THE NUMBER AND REFUNDED THE EXCESS JUICE TO THE PLAYERS.

HERE AND ONLY HERE IS WHERE I ATTEMPTED TO OUTGUESS THE PLAYERS.

WHEN THERE WERE A MAJORITY OF 2.5'S AND IT LOOKED LIKE 3'S WOULD BE POPPING,I OPENED 3.

THE WORST I COULD DO IS PUSH THE GAME IF IT LANDED.

I TOOK A STAND AND MOST OF THE TIME I WAS RIGHT BECAUSE POST UP PLAYERS GENERALLY LIKE THE FAVORITE.

MY POSTING CAREER IS OFFICIALLY OVER.

I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS APPROPRIATE THAT IT SHOULD START AND END WITH THE SAME POSTER.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL WHO RESIDE IN THAT VOID IN THE TWILIGHT ZONE KNOWN AS BETTORSWORLD.

REALITY

[REALITY]

Originally posted by REALITY:
RENO,

MY CHALLENGE TO YOU STILL STANDS.

WHAT I DID A FEW YEARS BACK IN TERMS OF NET WIN AND WIN% IS PROBABLY AMONG THE FINEST BACK TO BACK SEASONS EVER DONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE OFFSHORE BUSINESS.

FOR THE ABSOLUTE LAST TIME,THE ONLY PLAYERS WHO I CONSIDERED WISEGUYS ARE THE PLAYERS WHO PLAYED ME A GAME AND 30-60 SECONDS LATER,THE SCREEN WENT BLACK.

THESE ARE THE ONLY WISEGUYS.

THEY ARE THE ORIGINATORS OR MOVERS FOR THE ORIGINATORS.

SCALPERS ARE NOT WISEGUYS.

SCALPERS ARE,AND I DON'T MEAN THIS DISRESPECTFULLY,SCAVENGERS.

THEY WANT TO EAT BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR THEIR FOOD.

NOT EVEN THE COST OF THE PHONE CALL TO ORDER IT, WHICH IS TOLL FREE.

EVERYDAY PLAYERS WHO SCALP ARE JUST THAT.

SCALPERS WHO DO NOTHING BUT SCALP ARE SCAVENGERS IN A PUBLIC HOUSE WHO SERVE ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE BUT TO ERODE THE BOTTOM LINE.

THESE BIG OFF-SHORES THAT ARE ON SOUND FINANCIAL FOOTING AND CAN ABSORB HOLDING A LITTLE EXTRA ON CERTAIN GAMES WILL MOST LIKELY SPLIT THESE GAMES OUT AND EARN A LITTLE EXTRA.

THEY DON'T NEED PRO SCALPERS TO HELP THEM OUT.

IN A BIG CLEARING HOUSE WHERE YOU ARE WRITING IT ALL AND WORKING ON A SMALLER PROFIT MARGIN, PRO SCALPERS ARE JUST A PART OF THE GAME BECAUSE ANY BET, EVEN A SCALP IS VOLUME AND VOLUME IS NECESSARY TO FUEL THIS TYPE OF OPERATION.

I SENSE FROM YOUR POSTS YOU ARE REASONABLY INTELLIGENT.

I BELIEVE YOU ARE JUST POSTURING BECAUSE YOU ARE A SCALPER AND THIS PHILOSOPHY IS NOT CONDUCIVE TO YOUR LIVELYHOOD.

I ALSO BELIEVE YOU KNOW VERY WELL THAT MY TWO PHILOSOPHIES MAKE PERFECT SENSE DEPENDING ON WHICH TYPE OF HOUSE YOU HAVE.

IF YOU WERE PUTTING UP YOUR MONEY AND HAD A HOUSE FULL OF PUBLIC PLAYERS WHICH COST YOU A BUNDLE TO MARKET WOULD YOU ALLOW WISEGUYS AS I DEFINE THEM AND PRO SCALPERS TO EAT AWAY AT YOUR BOTTOM LINE?

SPARE ME THE PAT RESPONSE I WOULD WELCOME THEM WITH OPEN ARMS AND USE THEIR PLAYS TO GET ON THEIR SIDES.

B.W.LAYS -5.5 ON A COLLEGE FOOTBALL GAME,THE WORLD IMMEDIATELY GOES TO 6.5.

IF YOU WANT TO USE THIS PHILOSOPHY YOU HAVE TO GO TO 7 TO GET ON THE SIDE.

THE GAME LANDS 6 OR 7,HOW SMART ARE YOU NOW?

REALITY

[REALITY]

Originally posted by REALITY:

AN ORIGINATOR IS A PROFESSIONAL PLAYER THAT BACKS HIS PLAYS WITH CASH AND HAS THE ABILITY TO WIPE OUT THE MARKET ON A GAME HE LIKES IN 60 SECONDS OR LESS...

EVEN IF IT WERE POSSIBLE FOR A TOUT TO HIT 74% IT COULD NEVER DO THE DAMAGE A TRUE ORIGINATOR CAN BECAUSE THE TOUT'S FOLLOWERS WOULD NOT ALL BE BETTING AT THE SAME NUMBER AS A TRUE ORIGINATOR WOULD.

AS THE PUBLIC PLAYS THE TOUT'S GAME THE NUMBER MOVES AND WHEN IT LANDS SOME OF THE TOUT'S FOLLOWERS WILL WIN, SOME WILL PUSH AND SOME WILL LOSE.

WHEN A TRUE ORIGINATOR PLAYS HE GETS THE BEST OF THE NUMBER AND CONSEQUENTLY THE BEST POSSIBLE RESULT FOR HIS POCKET...

REALITY

[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 07-31-2000).]

[REALITY]

Originally posted by REALITY:
RENO,
I KEEP REPEATING IT FOR YOUR BENEFIT BUT IT DOSEN'T SEEM TO HELP.

SO HERE IT IS AGAIN:

IF I'M IN A POST UP SHOP WHERE THE OWNER SAYS NOW WISEGUYS OR SCALPERS ONLY,THERE WILL BE NO WISEGUYS OR SCALPERS ONLY.

AND YOUR RIGHT YOU ARE NOT A WISEGUY AS I DEFINE THEM.

WHAT IS A WISEGUY AS DEFINED BY REALITY?

A WISEGUY IS ANYONE WHO PLAYS AND 30-60 SECONDS LATER THE SCREEN TURNS BLACK.

AND WHAT IS A SCALPER ONLY?

A SCALPER ONLY IS A PLAYER WHO ONLY SCALPS THE GAME AND RISKS NOTHING TO EARN.

WHY IS HE BAD FOR BUSINESS?

BECAUSE THAT'S ALL HE DOES AND HE DOES IT WITH SUCH PROFICIENCY THAT WHEN YOUR EVERDAY PLAYER WHO YOU WANT TO SCALP THE GAME COMES BACK TO COMPLETE THE SCALP HE CAN'T!

WHY?

THE PRO SCALPER BEAT HIM TO THE NUMBER.

YOU JUST REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE ANYTHING I SAY IS TRUE.

YOU KEEP BLOWING SMOKE UP CERTAIN B.M.S ASSES THINKING THAT A REAL PRO IS GOING TO LET YOU GET THE BEST OF HIM WITH THIS REDICULOUS POSTURING.

A LITTLE WORD OF ADVICE,GO OVER YOUR LIST OF THESE B.M.'S YOU LIKE TO THROW BOQUETS AT,ONE OF THESE SHOPS IS TETTERING ON THE BRINK AS YOU READ THIS...

SEE IF YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHO.

THEN MAKE SURE TO COME IN HERE AND CRY HOW YOU ARE GETTING SLOW PAID OR NO PAID.

I HAVE BEEN CONTACTED ABOUT MY AVAILABILTY OF RUNNING ONE OF THE BIGGER CLEARING HOUSE OPERATIONS NEXT SEASON.

YOU WILL GET AN ENGRAVED INVITATION TO POST UP.

IF I'M SUCH AN INCOMPETENT AS YOU CLAIM,JUST WIRE JEFF AT BETTORSWORLD YOUR $10,000 AND ACCEPT THE RENO/REALITY CHALLENGE.

TAKE MY 1O DIMES AND IN TYPICAL RENO-ESQUE POSTING FASHION DETAIL HOW YOU TOOK MY MONEY AND SENT ME HOME WITH MY TAIL BETWEEN MY LEGS.

DON'T ANYBODY HOLD THEIR BREATHE WAITING FOR RENO TO CALL THE BET.

HE CAN'T.

HE DOSEN'T HAVE THE WINNING HAND AND HE KNOWS IT.

IF HE DID HE WOULD DOUBLE THE BET...

REALITY






[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 07-31-2000).]

[REALITY]

[quote]Originally posted by REALITY:
[b]

Originally posted by sportshobby:
We've all heard about the social hierarchy of bettors - suckers at the top, wise guys, etc. on down to scalpers and so on. I think it's time to examine the hierarchy of bookmakers.

First there are those with balls enough to post their own numbers and move on action, such as Olympic, Belize, etc.

SPIRO TALKS TO QUITE A FEW PEOPLE BEFORE HE PUTS OUT HIS OPENERS.

HE DOES NOT JUST PULL THEM OUT OF HIS HEAD.

I CAN'T SPEAK FOR BELIZE.

Next on the social totem pole are the ones that post the line service's openers and move on action (quite a few books in this category).

A ODDSMAKER MAKES THE LINE.

HIS JOB IS NOT TO FAVOR THE SIDE HE THINKS WILL WIN.

AN ODDSMAKERS JOB IS TO PUT UP AN ARBRITRARY NUMBER THAT THEORETICALLY WILL DRAW AN EQUAL AMOUNT OF ACTION ON BOTH SIDES

A BOOKMAKERS JOB IS TO EVALUATE HIS CLIENTS AND MANAGE THE LINE ACCORDINGLY.

IF IT'S A CLEARING HOUSE FOR WISEGUYS,I'M TAKING 6 TO 12 OF THE SHARPEST PLAYERS IN THE HOUSE AND LET THEM CRACK MY NUMBERS FOR HALF A BET 15 MINUTES BEFORE I OPEN FOR THE PUBLIC.

AFTER THAT,COME ONE, COME ALL!

IF IT'S A POST UP HOUSE,I'M GOING LET THE HOUSE PLAYERS LAY THE ORIGINAL NUMBERS THAT ORIGINATORS ARE LAYING IF THEY HAPPEN TO BE ON THE SAME GAME .

WHY?

THEY DESERVE A BREAK FOR ALL THE OTHER WORK THEY PLAY THAT PAYS THE BILLS.

I'M NOT GIVING A WISEGUY THAT SAME BREAK IN A POST UP HOUSE BECAUSE ALL I'M GETTING FROM HIM IS THE ORIGINAL PLAY IF I HAVE THE NUMBER HE IS LOOKING FOR.

THIS TYPE PLAYER PROVIDES ABSOLUTELY NO WORK TO EARN WITH IN THE POST UP HOUSE.

IN A CLEARING HOUSE IF YOU MOVE FAR ENOUGH YOU CAN GET A BUY BACK BUT THEN YOU ARE OPENED UP TO THE EXPOSURE OF GAPS IN THE LINE MOVEMENT.

The next rung in the social ladder are the clone joints. They just put up lines "in the middle" and move on air, making sure that they never have the best line in any direction. These guys don't have to worry about wise guys, because they don't have any.

THAT IS PRECISELY WHY THEY OPEN UP IN THE MIDDLE.

TO DISCOURAGE THE WISEGUY AND SCALPER BUSINESS THEY DONNOT WANT.

THIS IS A BUSINESS DECISION.

IT IS AS CONSCIOUS A BUSINESS DECISION AS THE CLEARING HOUSES MAKE WHEN THEY SAY COME ONE COME ALL.

THESE ARE THE RULES BOTH HOUSES MUST ABIDE BY:

A.POST A LINE AND HONOR THE LINE YOU POST.

B.ACCEPT A BET AND HONOR THE BET YOU ACCEPT.

C.PAY ON DEMAND.

THESE ARE THE A,B,C,'S THAT SHOULD BE THE MOST IMPORTANT TO THE PLAYER.

EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST MARKETING AND WINDOW DRESSING.

REALITY