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Doggie Style, you hit the nail on the head. Reality has presented nothing--other than his deleted poem--of real substance in this forum. And I have to admit that his poem must have had real substance because its meaning was even beyond the grasp of Hartley, who is obviously one of the brightest guys in Bettorsworld. However, I have learned nothing from Reality about bookmaking other than how he kicks out wiseguys and non-wiseguys. The guy's M.O is real simple: He used to be a scalper in the "good old days," and now, in the current scalping-infested environment of offshore betting, he is a B.M intent on ridding the the world of scalpers. It's kind of like a Hell's Angel becoming a Jesus Freak. However, from what I can see, he could probably get rid of more scalpers by working for the Gaming Control Board (GCB) in Vegas. Hey, you've got some contacts in Vegas. Maybe you can get him a gig with the GCB.
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Boomer:
If you are truly retireing you went out with a bang. This was one helluva thread you inspired. Scalping isn't going to die. It's just going through a cycle. Scalpers need to adapt,evolve and get better to cope. You gotta love it because if you are not haveing fun with it the whole thing gets very hard. There is still easy money once in awhile but not all the time and then you have to be there at the right time and sometimes that is luck. So best wishes at your new job and don't forget about the boys back at the salt mine.
[This message has been edited by bucky (edited 07-16-2000).]
[This message has been edited by bucky (edited 07-16-2000).]Comment
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RENO,
WHY DON'T YOU E-MAIL JEFF AND ASK HIM WHY THE THREAD WITH THE POEM WAS DELETED?
REALITYComment
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DOGGIE STYLE,
REMEMBER ONE THING.
THE FRIENDS YOU SO ADMIRED DOWN ON THE ISLAND ALL PLAYED IN THE HOUSE WHERE I PLIED MY TRADE LONG BEFORE THERE WAS A DON BEST.
WE KNEW HOW TO BOOK ANYBODY BECAUSE WE BOOKED EVERYBODY!
I'LL TELL YOU WHAT'S REALLY PATHETIC.
A GENTLEMAN PAYS ME A COMPLIMENT AND BECAUSE IT WASN'T DIRECTED AT YOU,YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO CALL HIM ON THE CARPET.
WHO THE F**K ARE YOU TO COME IN HERE AND QUESTION WHY SOMEBODY IS PAYING ME A COMPLIMENT.
IF YOUR SO F**KING SMART HOW COME YOUR NOT RUNNING A SHOW SOMEWHERE?
DO YOU REMEMBER THAT BIG GUY YOU WORKED FOR.
THE GUY WITH A HEART AND SMILE BIGGER THAN THE MAN HIMSELF.
HE'S A FRIEND OF MINE TOO.
NOT JUST A FRIEND,ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS.
MATTER OF FACT I'M GOING AWAY WITH HIM FOR 10 DAYS.
ONLY THE FACT THAT YOU KNEW HIM HAS PREVENTED ME FROM TELLING YOU WHAT EVERYONE HAS TOLD ME ABOUT YOU.
YOU WERE A NOTCH ABOVE A CLERK WHO WAS LEFT TO MIND THE SHOP WHEN THE PRINCIPALS WEREN'T THERE.
I RAN MAJOR SHOPS,I DIDN'T GIVE THE BOSS A BREAK!
I WAS THE BOSS!
ME,MYSELF,AND I!
THE BUCK STOPPED HERE!
YOU MAY BE THE DOG WITH THE NASTIEST BARK,BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU I'M THE DOG WITH THE NASTIEST BITE!
SO HEEL LIKE A GOOD LITTLE DOGGIE...
REALITY
[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 07-16-2000).]
[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 07-16-2000).]Comment
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Quotes by Reality:
"IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM IS IT THE BOOKMAKERS JOB TO ATTEMPT TO OUTGUESS THE TALENT"
Good one! So your saying a SITTING DUCK would be better than a person with a brain?
"THEN LUNATIC FOLLOWERS WHO LAY ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY JUST HAVE TO WIN THE GAME? FORCES THE PRICE UP A LITTLE HIGHER AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS"
Another good one. Lunitic followers force you the most respected one of us all to MOVE your "PRICE UP A LITTLE HIGHER" If you moved off a lunitic follower you must have wanted money on the OTHER SIDE!
That or your one of these guys who get offended because you moved the number to SUCK even more juice from the followers, But get pissed off when a SCALPER/PLAYER happens to want to play the dog.
Reno, Books sometimes try to get their sucker players to lay even more juice and HATES it when a SCALPER/PLAYER bets the other side. These are the people who act like your taking THEIR profit.
Reality, Is that what you guys say now? "THE MOVE ON DON BEST HAS BEEN CONFIRMED"Comment
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NO PAL,THAT'S IN REGARDS TO RENO TO MAKE SURE HE IS DOWN ON THE HOT SIDE SO LATER ON HE CAN COMPLETE THE SCALP...Originally posted by DoggieStyle:
Quotes by Reality:
"IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM IS IT THE BOOKMAKERS JOB TO ATTEMPT TO OUTGUESS THE TALENT"
Good one! So your saying a SITTING DUCK would be better than a person with a brain?
"THEN LUNATIC FOLLOWERS WHO LAY ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY JUST HAVE TO WIN THE GAME? FORCES THE PRICE UP A LITTLE HIGHER AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS"
Another good one. Lunitic followers force you the most respected one of us all to MOVE your "PRICE UP A LITTLE HIGHER" If you moved off a lunitic follower you must have wanted money on the OTHER SIDE!
I WASN'T REFERING TO ME PAL!
YOU BETTER SHARPEN YOUR READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS...
That or your one of these guys who get offended because you moved the number to SUCK even more juice from the followers, But get pissed off when a SCALPER/PLAYER happens to want to play the dog.
IN A POST UP SHOP A PLAYER WHO PLAYS ME EVERYDAY IS MORE THAN WELCOME TO SCALP MY NUMBER AS I HAVE STATED NUMEROUS TIMES....
Reno, Books sometimes try to get their sucker players to lay even more juice and HATES it when a SCALPER/PLAYER bets the other side. These are the people who act like your taking THEIR profit.
Reality, Is that what you guys say now? "THE MOVE ON DON BEST HAS BEEN CONFIRMED"
REALITY
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Reality,
Why do you keep saying "I admired somebody down on the island". You don't have any idea what your talking about. These PEOPLE down on the island destroyed a great office. All of them! Do you think I admired them? I'm not going to curse at you. I just wish you would stop making stupid comments like you know me or something. All you are doing is guessing. Get some facts.
All I wanted to do was run the Biggest book in the world. Period! In Margarita I thought I had the chance and I was close, But SELFSERVING MORONS got in the way. Like I said if you knew what you were talking about you would know the story about that office, But you know nothing about it! I was a HUGE reason the office stayed open after the other guy got us killed. It wasn't all his fault though as all the T.V. games in a 4 week period landed. But the bottom line was I WON, AND NOBODY ELSE COULD.
I would not work with this person who ended up being the BOSS/OWNER. I will not work for people I don't like. I walked away happy. It was not my loss. Not at all.
I do what I want. If I book again it's because I want to do it. I love the challenge of REAL BOOKMAKING. Taking bets from "SUCKERS ONLY" is wrong. We just want you to admit it! You can't claim to be a Bookmaker if you are avoiding bets. I couldn't let your thinking enter my mind. And I would never tell anyone if I did.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by DoggieStyle:
[B] Reality,
Why do you keep saying "I admired somebody down on the island". You don't have any idea what your talking about. These PEOPLE down on the island destroyed a great office. All of them! Do you think I admired them? I'm not going to curse at you. I just wish you would stop making stupid comments like you know me or something. All you are doing is guessing. Get some facts.
GUESSING NOTHING.
I KNOW ALL THE PRINCIPALS.
THEY WRECKED A GREAT OFFICE?
IT WAS THEIR CUSTOMERS AND THEIR BUSINESS.
All I wanted to do was run the Biggest book in the world. Period! In Margarita I thought I had the chance and I was close,
AND THEN I WOKE UP!
HOW WHERE YOU CLOSE?
THEY WERE GOING TO PUT UP ALL THE MONEY FOR YOU TO BOOK THOSE TYPE PLAYERS WITH YOUR EGO AND OPINION?
OH YEAH!
I COULD JUST SEE D.M.,PUZZLE AND S.K. SAYING YOU POST WHATEVER LINE YOU COME UP WITH.
WE HAVE ALL THE CONFIDENCE IN THE WORLD THAT YOU CAN BEAT THESE TYPE PLAYERS WITH YOUR OUTSTANDING OPINION.
THOSE PLAYERS WERE TOUGHER THAN A $5.00 STEAK AT SIZZLERS AND YOU WERE JUST GONNA BEAT THEM LIKE A DRUM.
HAVE LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SUFFERING FROM THIS DILLUSION?
But SELFSERVING MORONS got in the way. Like I said if you knew what you were talking about you would know the story about that office, But you know nothing about it!
BELIEVE ME,I KNOW MORE THAN YOU THINK...
I was a HUGE reason the office stayed open after the other guy got us killed. It wasn't all his fault though as all the T.V. games in a 4 week period landed. But the bottom line was I WON, AND NOBODY ELSE COULD.
WELL THEN,I'M SURE YOUR OUTSTANDING RECORD OF ACCOMPLISHMENT IS WELL KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY AND YOU HAVE BEEN BOMBARDED WITH OFFERS US KNOW NOTHING B.M.'S CAN ONLY DREAM OF...
I would not work with this person who ended up being the BOSS/OWNER. I will not work for people I don't like. I walked away happy. It was not my loss. Not at all.
I'M HAPPY THAT YOU ARE IN SUCH SOUND FISCAL SHAPE THAT YOU COULD TURN YOUR BACK ON THE MANY LUCRATIVE OFFERS THAT CAME YOUR WAY JUST BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T PERSONALLY CARE FOR THE MAN SIGNING YOUR PAY CHECK...
I do what I want. If I book again it's because I want to do it. I love the challenge of REAL BOOKMAKING.
ME TOO.
Taking bets from "SUCKERS ONLY" is wrong. We just want you to admit it! You can't claim to be a Bookmaker if you are avoiding bets. I couldn't let your thinking enter my mind. And I would never tell anyone if I did.
THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME AND YOU.
IF MY EMPLOYER TELLS ME NO WISEGUYS.
THERE WILL BE NO WISEGUYS!
IF MY EMPLOYER SAYS WRITE IT ALL.
I'LL WRITE IT ALL!
I DO BOTH JOBS EQUALLY WELL.
I'M NOT FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT LIKE YOU SO I CAN'T TELL MY EMPLOYER IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!
I ANSWER ACCORDINGLY:
THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY SIR,I WILL FOLLOW YOUR PHILOSOPHY TO THE LETTER BECAUSE AFTER ALL IT IS YOUR MONEY THAT YOUR ARE TRUSTING ME WITH.
I'M SURE AT THE END OF THE YEAR YOU WILL BE PLEASED WITH THE RESULTS...
WELL NOBODY'S ASKED FOR A REFUND,SO I MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT...
REALITY
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Reality,
First of all I did post any numbers I wanted you blundering Idiot! And they left me alone for weeks at a time because I WON! And I got paid from money I WON! I also would be their today if I wanted to be! The first two guys you talk about will agree with everything I have said. The third was a complete joke. Like you.
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Reality,
Why do YOU always have to blast everyone with personal attacks that has a different opinion other than yours?
People who have to tell everyone their somebody usually are 99 times out of 100 a complete joke!
What am I doing defending myself against a LIFETIME LOSER like you! I don't want everyone to know my life story because some SORRY LOSER like you has to POINT FINGERS and tell LIES to get your message across. You can't use your brain so you POINT FINGERS! And people respect you?
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT PERIOD!
I will advise you to Stop being SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO personal. Kind of like the same thing you acused Reno of isn't it. It's O.K. to say the things you are saying about these off-shores? I wonder if these people you claim to know want an idiot like you saying all these things about them!!!!
NOBODY NEEDS TO HEAR THESE THINGS YOU KEEP BRINGING UP! YOU HAVE NOT SAID ONE CORRECT THING ABOUT MARGARITA AND I'M DONE TALKING ABOUT IT.
UNDERSTAND!
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Speaking of people who have to toot their own horn, Reno comes to mind. He comes in here making it sound like he is big time. The guy is misrepresenting himself. He has never bet 5 dimes on anything and certainly wouldn't have the balls to open -132 when everyone was -120
Couple of guys posting here who are NEVER wrong. Makes it easy on who to listen to......Comment
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O.K. getting back to the subject. Here's a true story about the REAL BOOKIE and the SUCKERS ONLY BOOKIE.
It was a tuesday morning after the N.F.L. monday night football game. I was visiting one of the first off-shore books that kicked out anybody with DON BEST. This book was making money big time. WE ALL KNOW IT WORKS. I just couldn't believe people really did kick out players. I always thought if these people didn't take the WISEGUY action then nobody should have anything to do with these people.
Well the night before the TOTAL on the game was getting nothing but over plays. Most of the books got loaded because everyone was playing over. Well 20 minutes before the game started the WISEGUYS played the game under. It moved one point, then another point, and another.
Guess what! It was raining like mad. And you guessed it! All the REAL BOOKIES ended up without a decision or even worse needed the game over. The NON-BOOKIES who avoided the bets needed the under big time. They were boasting about how sharp they were for doing this. The game had no chance of going over!
That's why the REAL BOOKIES are complete retards to let these SUCKER ONLY BOOKS use THEM to avoid taking bets. The REAL BOOKIE is hurting himself by letting others copy their line changes. If they didn't tell the World the changes everyone would have to take the bets. Why should anyone be allowed to avoid the steam bets time after time? EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE TO TAKE THESE BETS. YES EVERYONE!
See these SUCKER ONLY BOOKS are as bad for this industry as the MIDDLERS or SCALPERS could ever be. These guys are taking the SUCKER PLAYERS and not keeping the WISEGUYS. The Stupid part of it is the REAL BOOKIE is letting these SUCKER ONLY BOOKS use THEM!
If they didn't blast their changes across the internet fast as lightning the SUCKER ONLY BOOKS would have to BOOK like a REAL BOOKMAKER. Thus many would go broke and the customers would have to play at the REAL BOOKS. The way it should be...
But Reality will tell you....
I WAS CLEANING MY NOSE BEFORE CRIS WAS A NAME or...
BEING A BOOKIE MEANS YOUR OPINION IS WORTH LESS THAN A DONKEYS or....
I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT DOGGIESTYLE HAS NO CLUE WHAT HE DID FOR THE PAST 5 YEARS... BUT I KNOW EVERYTHING HE DID... or
YOU MUST BELIEVE THAT I'M GREAT OR YOU WILL NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING I'M SAYING... or
I CAN SAY THINGS ABOUT ANYBODY I WANT EVEN THOUGH THEY MIGHT NOT LIKE IT BECAUSE I'M AN IDIOT... EVEN THOUGH IT COULD POSSIBLY GET THEM IN TROUBLE THEY DON'T NEED... BUT RENO CAN'T SAY SOMEONES NAME WHO HAS ALREADY BEEN BUSTED....
REALITY/REASON stop talking about PEOPLE!!!!!! NOBODY CARES WHO YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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25.06.2000 - GRAHAM REID talks with Justin Swift, one of the TAB team setting the odds.
Justin Swift admits he has a job many men might want. He's paid to watch sport.
As one of five TAB risk managers - bookies in street parlance - his brief is to set odds on cricket matches, rugby league games and the gallops.
So this BA graduate from Victoria University ("maths, a bit of law, some philosophy and classics as interest subjects") spends his days watching television, reading sports pages, scanning the Internet for results and bookies' odds, and doing what many consider a leisure activity.
"Yes, there are a lot of things which don't seem like work; there'd be 20 hours of this job I'd have to squeeze into my social life if I didn't have it," says Swift, acknowledging being single makes managing that social life, or lack of it, easier.
Setting odds means never being able to say you're available. During the cricket season, if New Zealand is playing in Britain, he's up early, reading overnight news reports to anticipate new odds for the next day's play. He watches cricket test matches six hours a day, five days a week - plus doing other work. There are night games after office hours ...
"It's very time-consuming. And I've noticed sport annoys me more than it used to. I find myself getting irate with the television when we've staked an opinion one team is going to win, and the other is playing well. I used to just watch sport and enjoy it. It cuts more deeply these days."
Swift and his colleagues are the subject of a Monday night television documentary Odds Fellows (TV1, 8.30 pm), an insight into a multi-million-dollar business at the intersection of mathematics, instinct, information and luck.
At 28, Swift has been a risk manager for two years. With fellow risk managers he discusses team performances, match conditions, variables such as weather or track conditions, how a particular referee will impact on a game, and anything which could make a difference to the way a race is run or a game is played.
Within the Wellington TAB, office managers have specialised portfolios, interests, contacts and data bases. The odds set are mathematically expressed opinions based on the best information available. The trick is to ensure, especially when one team is clearly favoured, odds remain attractive to punters.
"When everyone knows one team will win, you need a good betting proposition to encourage people, but not take a bath yourself."
He cites last weekend's All Blacks versus Tonga match, where punters could bet New Zealand would win by between 1 to 30 points, 31 to 60, 61 to 90, or 91 plus.
"We got most of the betting into 31 to 60 and 61 to 90 brackets, so 102-nil was a good result for us. It's a trickier proposition than having two even teams and figuring out where the odds have to be."
Previous form is the best guide, but factors such as the influence of a referee can be significant.
Rugby referee Jim Fleming is notorious for blowing the whistle frequently and therefore giving penalty opportunities.
"In league, Tim Mander doesn't generally seem to give the away-team a chance to win. In his first 18 games this year, only once did the away-team perform better than what the bookmakers' line on the game was."
That's not to say Mander will do this every time, but it's something to factor in.
"The key is identifying when you've got a favourite you think will lose, so we can attract money on them and reap the rewards, which is much more beneficial than if picking an outsider to lose."
Swift says it's not simply how they see the game, but anticipating how the market will read it. Last weekend's New Zealand Maori game against Scotland, won by Maori 18-15, for example.
"We thought the average score would be Maori winning by about 30 points. We got shown wrong because they played poorly and the Scots were good.
"But the betting public, even though it saw the odds favouring Maori to win by that much, was still betting on Maori to win by that, or more. For us it was a good result because, even though we were wrong, they were more wrong. So the way the public sees it is crucial."
In league, New Zealanders favour Wests Tigers from Sydney and the Warriors more than Australian punters do, so our odds offer smaller returns on them than Australian bookies, "although there are a lot of people here who love betting against the Warriors, and they do all right."
The TAB handles two types of betting: the traditional horse racing of Totalisator Agency Board (established in 1951) and fixed-odds betting (established in 1996), where risk managers play the same field as all other bookmakers - there are almost 100 legal on-line bookies today - and try to set the most attractive odds across a number of codes and fixtures.
Last year's TAB turnover on 358 betting days was $1.056 billion, with $849 million paid in dividends and $62 million paid to the racing industry. There has been an incremental increase in Internet betting, up from around $180,000 weekly a year ago to around $400,000 per week today.
Bets are permitted on sporting fixtures where the TAB has contracts with the national body of the code as recognised by the Hillary Commission. Such contracts allows them to take bets on international contests. No arrangement with the Olympic and Commonwealth Games associations means no bets taken for Sydney 2000. And you can't speculate on whether Todd Blackadder will be All Black captain for more than two seasons.
Sports betting manager Neil Sorenson says the TAB doesn't take boxing bets because there is no current contract, "but, to be fair, boxing has been tarnished in the past. Then again, with what's happened with cricket it would be hypocritical to say only boxing is tainted. It's one we'll reassess."
The early part of the week is spent analysing the weekend's results, researching and pricing, and firming up opinions about forthcoming events. Latter weekdays are spent monitoring odds and changes.
"And Saturday and Sunday are the big trading days," says Swift. "We pretty much sit in front of the terminal watching money coming in."
If too much money moves in from a single source, alarm bells go off. Literally.
"We set limits so if a bet pushes over that liability, no more bets will be sold so things don't sneak out of hand."
These days, Swift feels, there is almost too much sport to watch and post odds on, and only so many discretionary dollars. The racing dollar may be reinvested eight times ("people go along with $20 and end up spending $160 and come home with nothing") but a Friday night All Blacks match often means the weekend league dollar will be down, "until the All Blacks have paid out, and at 9.15 pm a flood of money will come in."
Swift enjoys the occasional flutter, but only on the Tote. Risk managers are not allowed to bet on fixed odds because they might be in a position to influence the outcome, although "the boys doing fixed-odds have accounts with Australian bookmakers, so they go offshore."
The TAB system here is transparent and tightly audited, and risk managers paid well. All of which discourages any temptation to work the system to their advantage, says Swift.
He's not a Nick Leeson in the TAB then?
"Oh no, I'm just trying to set myself up. I've almost got my student loan paid off."
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noholdsbarred, you are, plain and simple, a f...king, lying, complete piece of shlt. And those are your good qualities. I won't even address you bad qualities here, because women and children come into this sight.
Your handle is joke, a lie, the epitome of hypocrisy. If you were Noholdsbarred you would tell us your name and who you work for. And then, I would reveal my name.
Now, Reality wants to bet $10,000 on something completely subjective, based on opinion, rather than objective fact. I will bet you 100 dimes on something that is pure objective fact: that I regularly bet 5 dimes and above on baseball games. You and I will get on a conference call with Jeff of Bettorsworld and call: Belize, Caribi, Del Mar, Palmas, Pelican, Pinnacle, Skybook, Sports Market,WSEX, and WWTs, and each joint will substantiate that I have bet at least 5 dimes on a baseball game in the past few weeks. According to you, I never bet 5 dimes at even one place. And I'll prove that I bet 5 dimes or more with at least 10 different places.
Reality at least has some class, some sense of fair play, and is no doubt ethical in his personal dealings with people. In other words, despite my differences with the guy, he does have some redeeming qualities, and does attempt to offer something positive to this forum. You, on the other hand, offer nothing. All you do is to look to viciously attack and slander people like me and Johnny De Marco who try to bring something positve to this forum.
You talked about having to dig ditches if the Pokers didn't return. Here's some constructive advice to you: dig one 6-feet deep, put yourself in it, and have someone fill the hole with the dirt. That way, you can finally make a positive contribution to humanity.Comment
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by DoggieStyle:
I happen to think all these books are making a huge mistake being on one line service together. Seriously! What an advantage this is to a WISEGUY or any player for that matter. If The Devil remembers we agreed to get kicked off DON BEST when we were in Margarita. It cost us alot of MONEY.
We got so tired of people following us, We had no choice. A game would be 5 everywhere so we would go down to 4 and then everyone else would to 4 or 4.5. Then you would see 3.5 starting to show up as some books would move it because it WAS the right move.
We would just deal the change to customers that called. Leaving the number on the screen like everyone else. It worked, but Al of DON BEST would go nuts. But Al also saw the problem we were having. He did know this business. And there was nothing Al or US could do about it. We had to go....
A SIMPLE CALL TO THE OFFICES OF DON BEST STATING YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE REMOVED FROM THE SCREEN WOULD HAVE ALSO WORKED.
P.S. The Devil how soon you forget. How many times did I move a Hockey game before post so a wiseguy would bet it and give us a decision. WE KILLED THEM IN HOCKEY. We also did this in every other sport there was. I NEVER used a WISEGUY to get two way action! We always wanted the decisions. We used them to get decisions! RIGHT or WRONG.
I GUESS THE C.P.R.YOU CLAIMED TO HAVE ADMINISTERED WAS TOO LITTLE,TOO LATE...
THE OPERATION, COURTESY OF DR.DOGGIE WAS A SUCCESS BUT THE PATIENT DIED...
WAS THAT SHOW ON T.V. DOGGIE HOWSER M.D. ABOUT THE MARGARITA MIRACLE YOU PERFORMED?
Now I'm not talking about the other guys. The other guys couldn't get it together for some reason.
THESE THREE GUYS WHO WERE SMART ENOUGH TO PUT THIS OFFICE TOGETHER, WERE JUST TOO STUPID TO LET YOU RUN IT.
O.K.
There was no grinding it out...NEVER...
AND YOU JUST WANTED TO RUN THE BIGGEST OFFICE IN THE WORLD!
IF YOU COULDN'T GRIND IT OUT WITH THIS KIND OF HANDLE YOU COULDN'T GRIND IT OUT ANYWHERE!
I REST MY CASE!
THAT'S WHY THEY ARE NO LONGER IN EXISTENCE!
REALITY
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