The end of an era: Is Scalping Gone Forever?

[thedevil]

Reno,,

First, you would be surprised at how many customers don't understand 7 and 25. They make the bet don't listen to the readback and when they lose $125 instead of $110 say I didn't know what the clerk meant. Monday mornings you normally have three or four guys in figures going over claims. This way you would need an army..

Secondly and most important. Books hate baseball as we all know. On average it's the least profitable sport to book. Why try to bring baseball lines (money lines) into a football or basketball season..

That's also your answer on moving baseball totals.. Some guys like to move only the money (which I think is wrong) while others will move the total.

Outside of the fact we disagree on how and who to handle in a sportsbook (and it may sound contradictory). I don't believe in limiting real players.

The Devil

[REALITY]

Originally posted by reno:
Doggie Style, Reality, and Devil, serious question: Instead of moving from one number to the next in any sport, why not hold every number and just move the game on a money-line, like most books do with baseball totals? That way, you can't get middled.

RENO,
THIS WOULD JUST MAKE THE GAME DEAD.

I KNOW YOUR FRIEND AT WWTS DOES IT WITH NBA TOTALS.

SKYBOOK TAKES A LITTLE SHOT WITH THIS IN FOOTBALL.

THERE ARE CERTAIN VEGAS BOOKS THAT DO THIS WITH NBA TOTALS.

THE ONLY PLACE IN THE WORLD YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS IS A CLEARING HOUSE LIKE C.R.I.S.OR OLYMPIC.

AND THEY DON'T LIKE TO DO IT EITHER BECAUSE THEY CONTEND IT KILLS THE ACTION ON THE GAME.

C.R.I.S.WON'T EVEN MAKE A LINE 2.5-1.15 WHEN THEY GO ON AND OFF A THREE,AND THE SCREEN IS PAINTED 3.

IF IT MAKES THE GAME DEAD IN A PLACE LIKE THIS,IT MAKES A GAME DEAD AND BURIED IN A POST UP SHOP.

RECREATIONAL PLAYERS JUST CAN'T OR REFUSE TO GRASP THE CONCEPT AND FEEL THEY ARE BEING CHEATED.

I AM QUITE FLEXIBLE WHEN I'M SITTING BUT I DO HAVE ONE RULE ABOUT LINE MOVEMENT.

IN THE N.F.L. ONLY I'M NOT MOVING OFF THREE.

OFF THREE.

TWO YEARS AGO,I RAN A BIG POST UP SHOP.

I STARTED TACKING MONEY ON THE THREE.

THE NEXT DAY,AFTER HUNDREDS AND I DO MEAN HUNDREDS OF COMPLAINTS FROM POST UP PLAYERS,WHO CLAIMED I WAS ROBBING THEM, THE COMPANY TOLD ME IN THE FUTURE TO MOVE OFF THE NUMBER AND REFUNDED THE EXCESS JUICE TO THE PLAYERS.

HERE AND ONLY HERE IS WHERE I ATTEMPTED TO OUTGUESS THE PLAYERS.

WHEN THERE WERE A MAJORITY OF 2.5'S AND IT LOOKED LIKE 3'S WOULD BE POPPING,I OPENED 3.

THE WORST I COULD DO IS PUSH THE GAME IF IT LANDED.

I TOOK A STAND AND MOST OF THE TIME I WAS RIGHT BECAUSE POST UP PLAYERS GENERALLY LIKE THE FAVORITE.

MY POSTING CAREER IS OFFICIALLY OVER.

I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS APPROPRIATE THAT IT SHOULD START AND END WITH THE SAME POSTER.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL WHO RESIDE IN THAT VOID IN THE TWILIGHT ZONE KNOWN AS BETTORSWORLD.

REALITY

[intheknow]

IMO,
you guys are all wrong. The reason most wiseguys get fired is because they are useless. This is a customer service issue not a "who got da balls" issue. Believe it or not guys, off-shore BM's are a totally different breed now.
When we first opened off-shore we booked everyone, the only way to get Don Best then was Sat feed through TBS on G-5. We must have had 30-40 wiseguys and three or four sharps. (I'll post my opinion on the difference later). What happened on a move was this
Sharp calls "what ya got on #136.
Clerk screams "hold #136 for ****"
Manager says it's OK or gives a different number.
Sharp "give me the dog for 5 dimes"
Clerk " taking the dog for 5 dimes"!
Manager moves the game.
Then for the next ten minutes or so you get
wiseguys calling
Wiseguy "what ya got on #136"
Clerk "hold 136 for ******"
Manager says OK
Wiseguy "pass"
do this same thing over and over and over again with full slate of Baskets and Football.

The stress and the tension in the office was unbearable. Sometimes you had three or four on hold at the same time. If a clerk screwed up and gave a wrong line. BOOM they take it and we always honored the line given and the bet taken, so the clerk got chewed out.
Now, you got Wiseguys stalling and getting full rundowns and then trying to hear the changes in the background and also trying to make a play on the first two or three games on the rundowns to catch a half-pt before a move.

The followers do nothing for you except disrupt your office, scare your clerks and tie up your phones lines.

We always and still do book the sharps, they get one shot at a number. What I don't like is the follower who will not give you a play unless it's on the number they want, but they are always late, so they just tie up a clerk.


Another point, after my tirade can you imagine the clerk training it takes to get a clerk to the point of being able to handle these guys? You think you can take local talent and train them as quickly as the turn-over is in this business. It just takes to much hassle to book these guys and what benefit do I get?
We used to let them firm up our lines, but with the Premimum we don't need them.

I have no resentment against professionals making a living wagering with BM's, but cut out the Bullsh*t about you ain't sh*t unless you book all comers.
New Successful BM's now book with their Brains not their Balls

Thanks for listening,
a few to many ****tails at a birthday party got me started.
I await the backlash.

[bucky]

Reno,
Thanks for asking the question because that is exactly what I meant. And thanks for the answers. I guess not having worked in a sportsbook the concept of sitting one sided on 50 dimes or more would make me nervous. But you are saying the numbers work out for you long term.

[DoggieStyle]

intheknow,

I respect alot of what you say. I don't understand how hard it is to TAKE a bet and MOVE the line and answer the phones and give the next PLAYER the new line. Then again I know it's soooooo easy it's a big JOKE. Don't you guys pay people to answer the phones? Find people with a brain and pay them to do the job right. You make it sound like they are BOTHERING you. It's part of the game.

You guys are there to take bets. right? Some guys are looking to play the MOVES. What do you want him to do after a MOVE? Run and hind. So PLAYERS can't call your book after a move because you don't like it?

Your right! The new BOOKIES are a new breed. The "I don't want to have to work breed" Just sit in a chair and Don't bother me unless you are playing a bad number.

The WISEGUYS are useless only if you CAN'T BEAT their action. You know this is true as your place uses them to get the HOT SIDES going for you. No? You can't git rid of them anyway.

You say your place doesn't need them because "We have Don Best". WE HAVE DON BEST. But why isn't the PLAYER allowed to use Don Best. They see the Moves on Don Best just like you! But in your mind they are useless if they call to check your new number.

If all these SUCKERS ONLY BOOKS would take action on these moves and not AVOID the plays off the Don Best then you guys might not have to answer all these phone calls.

YOUR BOOK IS BEING USED BY THESE BOOKS YOU ARE SAYING ARE O.K. THE WISEGUYS CAN'T CALL THESE OTHER SO-CALLED BOOKS BECAUSE THEY WILL GET THROWN OUT. SO THEY USE BOOKS LIKE YOURS WITH LIGHTNING QUICK CHANGES TO MAKE THEM MONEY. THIS IS CALLED THE BIG BOOKIE EGO PROBLEM.

Do you agree that anybody that uses Don Best is a WISEGUY. Do you think PLAYERS are not being fair to the books if they use Don Best?

Why are you guys on Don Best? So all the SUCKERS will post up with you guys. There has to be a reason.

BOOKIES must face the fact that they are in a dog eat dog industry and they are there to take BETS from all PLAYERS. To say BOOKIES are changing isn't correct. These people who think they can book to SUCKERS ONLY aren't BOOKIES.

How can you, intheknow say these guys are BOOKIES. BOOKIES still take bets from everybody and make money. They are not changing. They ARE letting these DON BEST BOOKIES use them way too much.

Why give someone the changes lightning quick when it only HELPS THEM!

WAKE UP BIG BOOKIE....LITTLE BOOKIE IS COSTING YOU MONEY JUST LIKE THE MIDDLERS AND SCALPERS DO.

[ajax50]

Its one thing to have Don Best but its another to use it properly.My guess is that most players and BMs havent much of a clue.Why did skybook go from the highest number to an even higher number?Why did Grande move?Are they looking for buyback or is the number going to move into them?What offices looks for buyback and what stores dont? Which office is better at opinionating their opening number? Its a cat and mouse game and only the sharpest(BM or player) will get the cheese.

[intheknow]

Couple of quick responses then I have to sleep. I'll post more tomorrow

It's not hard to take a bet and move a number. It hard to give 20-30 rundowns a day times 30 players for about 5 plays. The guys are passing all day.

I'm not here to take all bets. I'm here to make money!!!!
Why do all wiseguys think everyone else is a sucker. We book guys who play anywhere from 1 to 30 dimes in football. Some of these guys are pretty smart and study hard to form their opinions. You have to figure most people who earn enough to be able to wager those amounts are probably pretty bright, not suckers. If you want to wager on your opinions, bring it on. If your getting rundowns all day to try to pick off a number because the screen goes black, find another place to do it. If just one of our regular dime players get a busy signal because some wiseguy is trying to catch our Manager napping, then I'm losing money on the deal.

It's not personal, just business.

[reno]

Ajax50, that is why I love the Don Best Screen. It is a challenging and exciting marketplace for players and BMs alike. And it's often dificult to tell which way a game is really going. For instance, take today's the Detroit/Cincinnati baseball game. Skybook went to -112 on Cincinnati, and then Belize jumped to -113 on Detroit. Did that represent a move on Detroit? Actually, as I found out later, it was simply a buddy of mine, an agent, who was moving a few hundred dimes on Detroit for a rich, personal friend of his. Unbeknownst to me until well after the game--which I scalped by taking the +103 on Cinci at Belize and +102 at Skybook--his money-moving actually created the scalp for me.

[DoggieStyle]

Ajax50 there is alot of truth to what you said.

I think most books use Don Best to avoid any sharp action because they always think that they are being taken advantage of if one of these WISEGUYS makes a bet. The Don Best bookie uses the Service to AVOID getting any bets on the MOVES.

How about everybody taking the plays and giving the REAL BOOKS a break every now and then. But SUCKERS ONLY BOOKIE will never take his share of the action.

THEY WANT TO OPEN UP AND TAKE BETS, BUT NOT REALLY...............

This is the New Breed of Bookies. And the bottom line at these places is that if YOU the PLAYER uses Don Best you will be asked to leave. How dare you call and try to bet a MOVE here!

This is a dream. Somebody has to take these plays. The Booking Business just can't tell all the sharp players they can't bet anymore. Can they?

Do people really think the books can just GIT RID OF THEM? In a dream world!

Like I said the BOOKS who take ALL the action from ALL PLAYERS are being downright stupid to let all these other Books use them to AVOID the action.

BOOKIES vs. PLAYERS

The never ending battle has always been who has better information. Well with Don Best (thanks to all the books on it) the PLAYERS have a huge advantage.

The only advantage Don Best gives the non-bookie (thanks to the REAL BOOKIE) is they can avoid MOVES. It allows them to avoid most sharp action and pinpoint sharp PLAYERS. This is why they hate anyone who uses it. It takes away their ONLY EDGE.

I think sharp players will start using the SUCKERS ONLY BOOKS more and more. Then the NON-BOOKIE will have NO clue what to do. They won't know who to copy.

And they will CRY SOME MORE.............

[Scott Landau]

What would cause someone to do something as maniacal as betting 300 dimes on a baseball game, and this one in particular? Was there a big edge he had that others weren't aware of, or is he just loaded and crazy?

[reno]

Intheknow, it sounds like your problems could easily be solved by going on the Don Best Island Express or by posting real-time odds on your Web site. Then, wiseguys wouldn't have to bug you for constant run-downs. The way you currently run your operation certainly doesn't earn my respect.

[reno]

Scott, I don't know the particulars. This agent has friends with untold wealth. For example, he introduced me to a guy probably worth over a 100 million. With that kind of wealth, a few hundred dimes is not an outlandish wager. Particularly if the guy is a winner.

[thedevil]

Reno,

How would that solve Intheknows problems?? Going on Island Express or posting live odds on his web site..

How many talented players use the express vs. the main feed. Xpress is much to slow for a mover. Live odds on the web site?? How many places that you deal with take good money over the net.. Some do but the majority want big plays over the phone. So they would still call and ask for the game..

THE DEVIL

[DoggieStyle]

I think every book should have their live numbers on the their internet web page. Heck, They could even charge $19.95 a month for those who just want to copy them and not bet. "1 line" LINE SERVICES used to cost $200-300 dollars a month.

[DoggieStyle]

I always thought answering the phones for the $50-100 dollar players was a nightmare. Answering the phone and saying "We already moved that game to 30" is so easy it's a joke.

Giving rundowns to the WISEGUYS is also a joke, Because you can do it fast and get them off the phone. The little players will drive your clerks crazy. But bookies don't need an excuse for not wanting them.